Post-bacc interested in MD PhD

[Offline PK]

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Hey all,

I graduated from college with a B.S. in Psychology in December but am lacking a few pre-requisites which preclude me from taking the MCAT, and thus, from applying to medical schools. I will be taking the remaining courses at Fordham University's post-bacc program beginning in the fall, and am very interested in pursuing an MD PhD program. I would appreciate any information with regards to my particulars and prospects.

I'm from: New York

My country of citizenship is: USA/Republic of Ireland

Undergraduate degree: B.S. Psychology, cum laude

At this University: A SUNY college

My GPA was: 3.4 cumulative, 3.54 degree (concentration in neuroscience)

My MCAT Scores were: Not Taken yet. I have taken 1 year gen chem, 1 year gen bio, stats, calculus, lots of english, neuroscience, psychopharmacology and other science courses. Will take one one year of organic chemistry, one year of physics, cell biology, microbiology and biochemistry (all with their respective labs) at Fordham.

Extracurricular/Awards: ~400 volunteer hours at community hospital, Summer internship in Psychiatry @ NY Presbyterian (for credit), 3x neuroscience studies author (2 likely to be published), inducted into tri-beta biological honor society, 4x dean's list, student observer in nuclear medicine and radiology, assisting visually impaired professor with writing a book on cognitive linguistics, secular club treasurer, teaching assistant for behavioral neuroscience, and some other things on my CV.

I've been interviewed by various labs and hope to be employed in a lab concurrent with my post-bacc studies. I hope to obtain admission for a neuroscience PhD in an MD PhD program within the US. Perhaps a SUNY medical school would be inclined to admit me?

Thanks in advance!

 

[chutzpah]

It's hard to say, it will probably come down to how you perform on the MCAT to make up for your slightly below average GPA.

 

[Offline PK]

I'm beginning preparations for the June 2014 exam, though what I can study is limited due to my not having yet taken two major courses for the MCAT. Are there a group or class of schools that my statistics may be compatible with?

 

[Offline PK]

I should add that I have a very strong upward trend. No GPA lower than 3.6 in the final 2 years. My first 2 years I was pursuing a major that I found to be totally uninteresting and I wasn't particularly motivated. So it goes..

 

[Offline PK]

Anyone else?

 

[Neuronix]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=539268

How much time have you spent in a lab?

Maybe you want to go to a SUNY, but in state status does not matter for MD/PhD admissions.

 

[Offline PK]

I've spent 1.5 years consistently in research, and have been interviewing to increase my experience at labs in nearby medical universities. I hope that by application time it will be around 2-2.5 years, and 3+ years by the time I actually enter a program. Thank you for the link

 

[K31]

Maybe you want to go to a SUNY, but in state status does not matter for MD/PhD admissions.

It might in this case. I have no direct information on the policies of any of their MD/PhD programs, but of the 4 SUNY med schools only Stony Brook is MSTP.

 

[Offline PK]

Does "MSTP" denote a program that is funded? I have retained some bonds and am not opposed to loans and family support, my applications will be broad enough to include MD PhD programs with tuition.

 

[K31]

MSTP is the designation for NIH-funded MD/PhD programs. All MSTPs are fully funded, as are many non-MSTP MD/PhD programs. The NIH funding does bring with it a certain expectation of quality--the program has been evaluated by an outside agency--as well as certain restrictions on the programs. Those include not considering state of residence in the admissions process and not requiring repayment of tuition and fees already paid if a student drops the program.

Also, I wouldn't consider an unfunded MD/PhD worthwhile--if that was my only option, I'd go MD-only.

 

[Offline PK]

MSTP is the designation for NIH-funded MD/PhD programs. All MSTPs are fully funded, as are many non-MSTP MD/PhD programs. The NIH funding does bring with it a certain expectation of quality--the program has been evaluated by an outside agency--as well as certain restrictions on the programs. Those include not considering state of residence in the admissions process and not requiring repayment of tuition and fees already paid if a student drops the program.

Also, I wouldn't consider an unfunded MD/PhD worthwhile--if that was my only option, I'd go MD-only.

Thank you for illuminating the distinction. How might I fare for MD only programs? Are PhDs a possibility in residency?

 

[K31]

Thank you for illuminating the distinction. How might I fare for MD only programs?

Difficult (ie near-impossible) to say without an MCAT score.

Are PhDs a possibility in residency?

They are, but I'm not sure it is worthwhile. At that point, I'd just go to a research-intensive fellowship.

 

[Neuronix]

Thank you for illuminating the distinction. How might I fare for MD only programs? Are PhDs a possibility in residency?

The other thing you did not give is your BCPM GPA. I'll assume it's closer to 3.4. If so, you should aim for 36+ MCAT for a good chance at MD/PhD. It would be more like 30+ for MD only, but the higher the better.

I agree with K31. The benefits of a PhD are marginal anyway. If you're not getting med school paid for, might as well just get the research experience through residency and fellowship without getting an official degree.

 

[TheShaker]

It might in this case. I have no direct information on the policies of any of their MD/PhD programs, but of the 4 SUNY med schools only Stony Brook is MSTP.

So...some schools that aren't MSTP funded are still instate biased?

 

[Maebea]

So...some schools that aren't MSTP funded are still instate biased?

Not necessarily. If a program wishes to be competitive for MSTP funding, they need to emmulate the practices & policies of MSTP-funded programs. Directors of recently-funded MSTPs tell me that they adopted common MSTP practices 5-10 years before they were awarded their first MSTP grant.

 

[Offline PK]

My BCPM does indeed round out to about 3.4, but without organic chemistry and physics. I had a poor first semester and retook general chemistry I and general biology I. My original grades were...very poor...not failing, though. I retook them and got an A- and B+ respectively. I fear that the poor grades will be factored in, thus lowering my BCPM average, but I hope to be redeemed by the fact I retook the classes and did well.

I took Orgo I and Physics I but withdrew early in the semester; I was intending on transferring schools and didn't want to be stuck halfway through their cycles as a student at a new university. Thus, there is no grade for these classes, but my transcript has these glaring negative marks.

The other thing you did not give is your BCPM GPA. I'll assume it's closer to 3.4. If so, you should aim for 36+ MCAT for a good chance at MD/PhD. It would be more like 30+ for MD only, but the higher the better.

I agree with K31. The benefits of a PhD are marginal anyway. If you're not getting med school paid for, might as well just get the research experience through residency and fellowship without getting an official degree.

 

[Fencer]

Not necessarily. If a program wishes to be competitive for MSTP funding, they need to emmulate the practices & policies of MSTP-funded programs. Directors of recently-funded MSTPs tell me that they adopted common MSTP practices 5-10 years before they were awarded their first MSTP grant.

Agree... Most large non-MSTP MD/PhD programs are fully funded and state of residency does not matter. Programs aspiring to become MSTP need a track record of MSTP policies for several years. You should consider non-MSTP MD/PhD within CTSA institutions; there are 17 of them. Out of the 44 MSTPs, 41 also have CTSA funding. A recommendation from the IOM is to leverage CTSA resources to connect with MSTPs. Keep in mind that the average NIH CTSA award is about 8-10 times larger than the average MSTP award.

 

[Neuronix]

I fear that the poor grades will be factored in, thus lowering my BCPM average, but I hope to be redeemed by the fact I retook the classes and did well.

They will be factored in. I need to know your final BCPM GPA with those grades.

I took Orgo I and Physics I but withdrew early in the semester; I was intending on transferring schools and didn't want to be stuck halfway through their cycles as a student at a new university. Thus, there is no grade for these classes, but my transcript has these glaring negative marks.

If they're just withdraw grades, and they're the only withdraw grades on your transcript, it's not a problem.

 

[Offline PK]

They will be factored in. I need to know your final BCPM GPA with those grades.

If they're just withdraw grades, and they're the only withdraw grades on your transcript, it's not a problem.

I dug up my transcript and calculated that, with the poor 1st semester grades included, my BCPM comes to a discouraging 2.8 (without organic chemistry, physics, cell bio, genetics etc.)


I have two other withdrawals, due to scheduling conflicts with my lab work. One was a computer 101 course and the other on human evolution. I completed both the next semester and received A's.

 

[Neuronix]

You're in big trouble with a transcript like that. Be sure to score very high on the MCAT and I'd have a backup plan in mind.

 

[Offline PK]

That I shall, thank you for the input. Might i have some chance after my post bacc program? I will be taking a number of pre-req courses, and then the MCAT shortly thereafter. Or am I totally screwed?

 

[Fencer]

Not totally screwed... Those were scores early in your training. Nevertheless, it takes a big dent on your MSTP aspirations. You must get a great MCAT to have a chance at lower MSTP and large non-MSTP MD/PhD programs.

 

[Offline PK]

Thanks for the information

 

[MVP]

You mentioned your research as "neuroscience studies". Were these clinical/psychology studies instead of basic science research?

 

[Offline PK]

They were animal model (SD rats) behavioral neuroscience studies, focusing on the interaction between sex hormones and ethanol intake. We followed this line of inquiry by chemically altering their estrogen levels, and evaluating subsequent ETOH intake.