Post Doc in IL PsyD

[Jasmine20]

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Hello, I have a question about receiving postdoctoral supervision. I’m planning to begin a postdoc next year at a school, and I’m currently in a school psychology doctoral program. My district has agreed to let me receive supervision from an external organization. The person providing supervision is licensed in Illinois, but she lives in another state. Can she still supervise me remotely, as long as she is licensed in Illinois?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

This is from the IDFPR's website/FAQ for clinical psychology licensure:

Your postdoctoral experience must be personally and individually supervised by a Licensed Clinical Psychologist, whose license is in good standing, for at least one hour per week, every week of your experience. Your supervision needs to be on a one-on-one basis and be delivered face to face. Your supervisor must be licensed as a Clinical Psychologist in the State in which you are accumulating your experience. If your experience is from work done in another State, you must also submit a copy of your supervisor’s Vita along with your VEPSY form. Group supervision, telephonic supervision, email or web-based supervision and supervision by mental health professionals who aren’t psychologists all can be used to augment your individual supervision by a Licensed Clinical Psychologist, but they cannot substitute for this experience. Finally, the experience must be pursuant to the order, control and full professional responsibility of your supervisor. This means that although you are providing the services to the client, you are doing so under the direction of and under the professional control and responsibility of your supervisor.

Based on the bolded portion, it seems like virtual supervision (which I would include under "web-based") is not acceptable as the primary form of supervision. But you can always double-check with the board; some boards made temporary exceptions during COVID, and those exceptions (if made) may still be in place.

 

[psych.meout]

This is from the IDFPR's website/FAQ for clinical psychology licensure:



Based on the bolded portion, it seems like virtual supervision (which I would include under "web-based") is not acceptable as the primary form of supervision. But you can always double-check with the board; some boards made temporary exceptions during COVID, and those exceptions (if made) may still be in place.

Definitely something to consult the board about, but I'd be surprised if they made an exception. The supervision in this case isn't only entirely virtual, but also this appears to be the only supervision being provided from a licensed doctoral-level provider, the psychologist is not even in-state, and there does not appear to be any in-person supervision at all. Seems like way too many deviations from the supervision requirements and goals for an exception.

 

[WisNeuro]

Yikes. Why would a postdoc even allow this setup?

 

[PsyDr]

Performance of diagnostic services require the Direct Supervision of the psychologist under whose name the services are billed. According to 42 CFR 410.32, Direct Supervision in the office setting means the psychologist must be present in the office suite and immediately available to furnish assistance and direction throughout the performance of the procedure. It does not mean that the psychologist must be present in the room when the procedure is performed.

So, can you give a brother the name of this psychologist? I can make some money on reporting this.

 

[psych.meout]

Yikes. Why would a postdoc even allow this setup?

How is it even a post doc in the first place? This sounds more like a job that's allowing OP to work pre-licensure while they cobble together some outside supervision. To me a post doc would be something formal that is led by a psychologist on staff.

 

[Jasmine20]

How is it even a post doc in the first place? This sounds more like a job that's allowing OP to work pre-licensure while they cobble together some outside supervision. To me a post doc would be something formal that is led by a psychologist on staff.

It doesn't have to be formal. There are many other types of post docs. Do your ressearch- you CAN do it informally. Many psychologists do a post doc at work that I know. No reason for the Judgement

 

[Jasmine20]

This is from the IDFPR's website/FAQ for clinical psychology licensure:



Based on the bolded portion, it seems like virtual supervision (which I would include under "web-based") is not acceptable as the primary form of supervision. But you can always double-check with the board; some boards made temporary exceptions during COVID, and those exceptions (if made) may still be in place.

Thank you for this!

 

[Jasmine20]

How is it even a post doc in the first place? This sounds more like a job that's allowing OP to work pre-licensure while they cobble together some outside supervision. To me a post doc would be something formal that is led by a psychologist on staff.

Hold up on the judgement- there are many different types of Post Docs. Do your research.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

The judgment is about trying to skirt supervision rules for a job than go about it like the vast % of other trainees. For some they just see post-doc as a box to check, but it can actually be a really important experience.

I write this as someone who has written & codified training standards at the state level bc ensuring competency is as much about protecting the public as it is about ensuring adequate training in the profession.

 

[Jasmine20]

The judgment is about trying to skirt supervision rules for a job than go about it like the vast % of other trainees. For some they just see post-doc as a box to check, but it can actually be a really important experience.

I write this as someone who has written & codified training standards at the state level bc ensuring competency is as much about protecting the public as it is about ensuring adequate training in the profession.

Well if you look up post docs- it CAN be done at your training site. And the person that was going to do supervision for me was really good! She was my supervisor before and it top tier amazing and has been a supervisor for a long time. Sanctimonious of everyone here is really quite offensive. I don't need moral training on this

 

[Jasmine20]

I appreciate the replies that were cordial and polite and did not go into straight high horse moral judement!

 

[WisNeuro]

Well if you look up post docs- it CAN be done at your training site. And the person that was going to do supervision for me was really good! She was my supervisor before and it top tier amazing and has been a supervisor for a long time. Sanctimonious of everyone here is really quite offensive. I don't need moral training on this

I think it's more of a legal issue than a moral one in this instance.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I think there's also sometimes discordance in how people use the term "postdoc." Some people use it when referring only to structured, or at least semi-structured, training experiences. Others use it more broadly, such as when referring to a year of supervised practice that doesn't necessarily include much else in the way of training.

Regardless, it seems like in IL, having entirely remote supervision would be a no-go. As PsyDr points out, if it were allowed, the supervisor would need to be very careful in terms of which insurances they bill.

 

[Jasmine20]

I think there's also sometimes discordance in how people use the term "postdoc." Some people use it when referring only to structured, or at least semi-structured, training experiences. Others use it more broadly, such as when referring to a year of supervised practice that doesn't necessarily include much else in the way of training.

Regardless, it seems like in IL, having entirely remote supervision would be a no-go. As PsyDr points out, if it were allowed, the supervisor would need to be very careful in terms of which insurances they bill.

I appreciate your input! Thank you

 

[psych.meout]

Well if you look up post docs- it CAN be done at your training site. And the person that was going to do supervision for me was really good! She was my supervisor before and it top tier amazing and has been a supervisor for a long time. Sanctimonious of everyone here is really quite offensive. I don't need moral training on this

This isn't about morality or sanctimony, it's about the quality of training and supervision offered and whether it conforms to the legal requirements. I wasn't commenting on your character as a person, but rather questioning how and why this would be considered a formal or informal post doc when there isn't another licensed psychologist on-site or even in-state who would be supervising your last stage of training before licensure.

I think there's also sometimes discordance in how people use the term "postdoc." Some people use it when referring only to structured, or at least semi-structured, training experiences. Others use it more broadly, such as when referring to a year of supervised practice that doesn't necessarily include much else in the way of training.

Regardless, it seems like in IL, having entirely remote supervision would be a no-go. As PsyDr points out, if it were allowed, the supervisor would need to be very careful in terms of which insurances they bill.

I typically refer to it as a formal or informal program of training post-internship and pre-licensure, in which there is at least one psychologist is on-site providing supervision, professional development, and other training. I juxtapose this with other post-internship experiences like jobs that are focused on grinding out postdoctoral hours for licensure while checking the supervision box and other minimum requirements for licensure in a given state. This is why I questioned OP's characterization, which seems like the latter, not the former.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

The licensing board will have the final say. Get everything in writing and follow it to the letter or risk wasting a year and/or putting yourself in a dicey situation.

There are very few instances when a licensing board takes action, but paperwork and licensure stuff can be a sticking point. Avoid inappropriate relationships, get your CEUs, and do your paperwork to secure a license in good standing…and that’s like 98% of the issues they take action on.

This isn’t about judgment. There are some useful posts in here, FWIW.

 

[Jasmine20]

I think there's also sometimes discordance in how people use the term "postdoc." Some people use it when referring only to structured, or at least semi-structured, training experiences. Others use it more broadly, such as when referring to a year of supervised practice that doesn't necessarily include much else in the way of training.

Regardless, it seems like in IL, having entirely remote supervision would be a no-go. As PsyDr points out, if it were allowed, the supervisor would need to be very careful in terms of which insurances they bill.

Yes, I am not going to chance it with the online route. Thank you for your input

 

[psych.meout]

The licensing board will have the final say. Get everything in writing and follow it to the letter or risk wasting a year and/or putting yourself in a dicey situation.

There are very few instances when a licensing board takes action, but paperwork and licensure stuff can be a sticking point. Avoid inappropriate relationships, get your CEUs, and do your paperwork to secure a license in good standing…and that’s like 98% of the issues they take action on.

This isn’t about judgment. There are some useful posts in here, FWIW.

And not just the licensing board. If you ever get sued the opposing side is going to scrutinize everything, possibly including this kind of exception to supervision for licensure.