Post-interviews stress relief and reflection

[gbwillner]

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I just caught the red eye back from my last interview... and wrapped up the interview season. 10 interviews in 1.5 months, staying about 3 days per city. I've been home for about three days in the last month, just enough time to wash my clothes and leave again. Nothing like sleeping in your own bed for a change.

Just thought I'd share some general observations about my experiences that were unexpected when I began the process.

1. Don't go on 10 interviews. I was burned out after 6-7. Yes, there are always other great programs to see. But in reality, you'll stop caring after 7 or so, and may not be at your best. I noticed that if on your first interview, a program has a significant flaw, you may still be impressed with the program overall. by the last interview, the same flaw could have you dismiss a program at 7:30 AM of your interview day. I even had one PD tell me, after asking me how many interviews I'd already been on, that I looked worn and that hopefully I wasn't going to be bored. After a while, all the programs start to run together in your brain, so take good notes after you leave.
If your tenth interview is one that you absolutely cannot miss, skip 8 and 9, since they are obviously not as important for you to see.

2. There are few things that are ever going to tell you if a program is really right for you. Every program has its strengths and weaknesses. None are perfect. Some may disagree, but if you go expecting to see/hear something that will jump out at you and convince you... it's probably not going to happen. Also, control the "gut" feeling. You may catch people on a bad day, so don't judge an entire program on bad interactions with a few individuals, especailly of a program looks good for you on paper. Go back and try again.

3. Canned question get canned answers. Uncomfortable silence is better than asking your interviewer questions like "where do you see the program in ten years?" or "what are the strenghts/weaknesses of your program" or other things that don't actually help you see what a program is like. If a faculty member asks you if you have any more questions, and you don't, just say so. Talk about the weather or sports- idle banter is actually pretty good, it makes you bond with the interviewer in a low-stress manner. That being said, don't be afraid to ask questions, during or after the interview.

4. Ask residents about program specifics and flaws, not faculty. Many residents are not afraid to disclose program flaws, but in your faculty interviews I would say its better to stay away from negative topics (in general, unless you have specific concerns). If you like a program, you don't want your interviewer to leave with a negative impression of your conversation. If a program doesn't have feature that you would like, make a note of it and move on- don't dwell on it. Also, a lot of faculty have no idea what the call schedule is like, or how many specimens you have to gross per day, or how much dedicated preview time you have. Save that for residents. If you feel like you didn't spend enough time with residents, email them or set up addition time with them- they are usually a better source of information.

5. If a faculty member asks you where else you applied/are interviewing right away (i.e., it does not come up as a natural result of conversation), they don't think you are going to go to their program. Sometimes they will try to advise you on where else you should be applying, but most of the time they are weighing the chances of you liking their program based on their competition. Be at your own discretion when answering this question... you can always answer it with an "I'm applying all over and looking for the best fit for me".

6. Nothing tells you the happiness of the residents at a program like watching them gross for a few hours or previewing slides. All residents are typically happy when getting a free lunch with applicants, or are around their peers. One-on-one when no one is watching they can tell you how they really feel, or their frustrations can come out as they gross for their 21st consecutive hour.

Well, that's it for now- I am exhausted. Please feel free to add to this.

 

[Purpura]

Thank you very much for your imputs!

I have been to 10 interviews out of 14 invitations and I can say _ I agree 100% with you...

Unfortunately, many of the aspects you mentioned, specially about what questions to make, I figured out only after my first 5... Oh, well

And ... now I know why I keep thinking I liked the first program I 've been (even though I am sure it is not that good) 😉

 

[mlw03]

i'll reply to the corresponding numbers.

1. agreed, but the logistics often make it such that you end up scheduling interviews you'd otherwise have declined, and by the time you want to cancel them you've already bought a plane ticket. so while i agree that 7 is plenty for a decent applicant, i don't know how to make that happen without more standardization to the process of offering interviews. and i speak from experience - friday will be my 14th starting in mid-october, and i'm spent. i canceled my 3 january interviews knowing i just couldn't do it for programs that weren't my "can't miss places". i did my "can't miss" between 8-13 and i do agree it's best to not do those too early. i definately know what i'm looking for much better today than i did 3 months ago. it is a fine balance.

2. yep, agree with that too. by interview #3 i realized no program/city combination is going to be perfect. like politics, it's about finding the best overall fit

3. again, i agree and when i don't have a good question for a faculty member i just say, "no, the residents answered my most pressing questions, thank you"

4. big time agree. 90% of the info i care about comes from residents. for this process i would argue the Rank List commitee should be made up with at least 25% residents, including all PGY-3s.

5. not sure if i agree with that one. i can think of many benign reasons to ask that question. geographic restrictions, conversation starter, mere curiosity, whatever. for example, i applied mostly in the midwest so i make sure to highlight that to interviewers by saying, "mostly midwest because there are numerous excellent programs in the region and it's a place i think i'd like to live for 4 or more years"

6. agree, but again, not sure how to do it. watching residents gross would be weird, as would previewing slides. these are solitary activities (hell, that's part of what i like about them). what i find particularly useful is talking to residents with kids. if they're happy it's probably because they have time to see their families, and to me that's an indicator of reasonable work hours. plus, people with kids are intrinsically more stressed on the whole, so if they're happy that's a good sign that i would be too.

 

[malchik]

I have decided that these interviews are only marginally useful, to both applicants and programs alike. We applicants read way too much into statements/body language of interviewers, while they are deluding themselves if they think they are learning anything substantial about applicants from a 30-minute chat, especially when they do 90% of the talking! Even the physical aspects like facilities, you are limited by what they decide to show you and who you are allowed to meet with. In another thread the argument was made that a process analogous to quorum sensing gives more reliability to evaluating applicants. Dubious analogies to quorum sensing aside, I would bet that faculty would nearly always arrive at the same conclusion based on the applications alone. We conclude what we want to believe about a place or an applicant based on preconceived notions. The most informative thing to see is the city and neighborhoods, and programs should invest more time in touring surrounding environs.

 

[LAZYGUY]

This is very good logic and for the most part, I agree. It seems as though everyone in some way or another paints a rosy picture about their own program. Some places that I originally thought would be much higher on my list ended up being so-so in the end. Checking out the city and neighborhoods is a smart decision and it's probably some of the only good info I've taken away. It just reminds me how this is all a game. I'm certainly not trying to match into the "best program" possible, rather one that is a good fit, with honest smart and hard-working, caring colleagues that will make the days enjoyable. I think there are only 2 schools on my list of 14 that I truly would love to attend.

I have decided that these interviews are only marginally useful, to both applicants and programs alike. We applicants read way too much into statements/body language of interviewers, while they are deluding themselves if they think they are learning anything substantial about applicants from a 30-minute chat, especially when they do 90% of the talking! Even the physical aspects like facilities, you are limited by what they decide to show you and who you are allowed to meet with. In another thread the argument was made that a process analogous to quorum sensing gives more reliability to evaluating applicants. Dubious analogies to quorum sensing aside, I would bet that faculty would nearly always arrive at the same conclusion based on the applications alone. We conclude what we want to believe about a place or an applicant based on preconceived notions. The most informative thing to see is the city and neighborhoods, and programs should invest more time in touring surrounding environs.