Post M1 Summer: Pathoma vs. Physio

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As a supplement to free time in the summer, would it be better to go over physio again to make sure that I understand all the concepts and feel good about the material? Or go ahead and make a first pass through Pathoma to preview M2 material?

 

[JJMrK]

Honestly, if you're going to do something other than relax, it'd be far more productive to spend the time doing research in the field of your choice.

 

[synecdoche]

As a supplement to free time in the summer, would it be better to go over physio again to make sure that I understand all the concepts and feel good about the material? Or go ahead and make a first pass through Pathoma to preview M2 material?

I'm going to look at the physio concepts that I didn't really master the first time around, but that's it.

 

[operaman]

Yeah, I'd advise doing as little as possible because it's just too far away from Step 1 to be worth doing. Maybe if there were some big picture concepts in physio that you felt uncomfortable with it might be good to learn them, but I think the time would be far better spent relaxing and recharging. Many people find that even during dedicated Step 1 prep time, they hit a point where they realize they've forgotten things they studied only a few weeks earlier, much less the summer before.

Doing some research is also a great use of the time so long as there is lots of relaxing time built in there too. Ditto for shadowing/networking in the department you're most interested in.

Don't underestimate burnout. I didn't start feeling it until second year but it was real and probably cost me a little. Spend as much time away from medicine as possible because you won't have much for awhile.

 

[swoopyswoop]

go to the beach

 

[Flamen04]

I talked to some people that I knew that studied for step between M1 and M2. All of them regret doing it because they forgot most of it and had to relearn it all... So...

 

[Kaputt]

Here we go again.

OP, next time you think you've come up with a super interesting or unique topic to post on sdn, ask thyself, "have a crap-ton of neurotic M1s already asked this?" Then, browse around sdn for like 5 seconds, and find out if your topic has been beaten to death. Alas! It has. And the universal answer, we all say in unison is...THIS IS YOUR LAST SUMMER EVER WHY THE $%&* WOULD YOU WASTE IT ON AN INEFFICIENT, POINTLESS REVIEW/PREVIEW OF MINUTIAE WHEN YOU COULD BE HAVING FUN, RELAXING, OR DOING SOME CHILL RESEARCH THAT WILL ACTUALLY HELP YOU ATTAIN YOUR FUTURE CAREER GOALS AS OPPOSED TO SOME HALF-BAKED PSEUDO-STUDYING THAT WE ALL GUARANTEE WILL BE A WASTE OF TIME.

/thread

 

[Snoopy2006]

Trying to learn M2 pathology on your own is a waste of time. Find time to relax for sure - M2 burnout can be very real - but if you're going to do something, I'd recommend shadowing/working with physicians.

Med school is structured in a way that you get exposure to 6-7 "core" specialties during your 3rd year, and then you may have time for an elective or two (if you're not busy doing aways), and then you have to decide what you're going to do for the rest of your life. Without exposure to the vast majority of medical fields. It's an inane system. Once you hit M2 year, any extra time you have will be gone. So if you really want to do something, spend a few days with docs in PM&R, derm, ENT, sports med, ophtho, etc. When it comes time to decide what field you want to enter, you'll be glad you took the time to expose yourself to as many specialties as possible.

 

[Psai]

Medical schools have been around for a long time, they know you will forget. They will review important stuff and it will come up again like if you do renal first year and then cardio second year, you can bet that all that info about ion channels and diuretics will show up again. Don't waste your time on pointless review. Do you think reviewing anatomy during the pre-m1 summer would have helped? Same thing here. Save your step 1 studying for your dedicated step 1 studying time.

 

[Venko]

Here we go again.

OP, next time you think you've come up with a super interesting or unique topic to post on sdn, ask thyself, "have a crap-ton of neurotic M1s already asked this?" Then, browse around sdn for like 5 seconds, and find out if your topic has been beaten to death. Alas! It has. And the universal answer, we all say in unison is...THIS IS YOUR LAST SUMMER EVER WHY THE $%&* WOULD YOU WASTE IT ON AN INEFFICIENT, POINTLESS REVIEW/PREVIEW OF MINUTIAE WHEN YOU COULD BE HAVING FUN, RELAXING, OR DOING SOME CHILL RESEARCH THAT WILL ACTUALLY HELP YOU ATTAIN YOUR FUTURE CAREER GOALS AS OPPOSED TO SOME HALF-BAKED PSEUDO-STUDYING THAT WE ALL GUARANTEE WILL BE A WASTE OF TIME.

/thread

To be honest since the OP asked physio or pathoma...I do think he is the first to start a thread on this topic. I think we as posters are the unoriginal here.

Also, the idea that the "research" one will do in a summer will make huge impact on their residency application over step 1 success may not be universal truth. Many students have spent time doing research and not all gain publication or presentation. Without those the time is not a total waste but not a huge advantage over peers at least in my eyes. Since step 1 scores are frequently used as a filter for interview (unlike research) studying one of the big three content areas (pharm, physio, path) is not such a crazy idea.

Finally, though I agree that for many people, relaxation may be the very best solution, I recognize that some may wish to study something. It may ease the anxiety over the next year or provide a better foundation going into the next challenge or offer something else.

I took coursework in the summers after 6th, 7th, 8th grades, 11th grade, first year of college (graduated after spring of second year), and after first year of medical school. I never burned out. Others did more than me. Don't let this persons motivation make you feel inadequate for not studying in the summer. There are many ways to do this thing successfully, you don't need to go all caps on anyone.

To the OP, I would recommend physio but that is because I think most people are likely to have an easier time discerning important parts on something they already studied rather than trying to anticipate what content is most relevant in a new subject.

We all wish you well.

 

[JoshSt]

Research=rest&recreation >> Step 1, reviewing MS1 stuff

I hear good things about the PS4, less good things about the big-brother-box one

Heck, if you want to study for Step 1, do Uworld -- you won't do well answering questions, you won't retain much, but you would be exposing yourself to the best resource. I watched Pathoma MS1 summer and it didn't help anything because I hadn't gone through those systems in med school

 

[redblue]

To be honest since the OP asked physio or pathoma...I do think he is the first to start a thread on this topic. I think we as posters are the unoriginal here.

Also, the idea that the "research" one will do in a summer will make huge impact on their residency application over step 1 success may not be universal truth. Many students have spent time doing research and not all gain publication or presentation. Without those the time is not a total waste but not a huge advantage over peers at least in my eyes. Since step 1 scores are frequently used as a filter for interview (unlike research) studying one of the big three content areas (pharm, physio, path) is not such a crazy idea.

Finally, though I agree that for many people, relaxation may be the very best solution, I recognize that some may wish to study something. It may ease the anxiety over the next year or provide a better foundation going into the next challenge or offer something else.

I took coursework in the summers after 6th, 7th, 8th grades, 11th grade, first year of college (graduated after spring of second year), and after first year of medical school. I never burned out. Others did more than me. Don't let this persons motivation make you feel inadequate for not studying in the summer. There are many ways to do this thing successfully, you don't need to go all caps on anyone.

To the OP, I would recommend physio but that is because I think most people are likely to have an easier time discerning important parts on something they already studied rather than trying to anticipate what content is most relevant in a new subject.

We all wish you well.

Thank you for the kind words! They're really appreciated. I know it's really annoying to see these posts, especially with all the new incoming M1 posts about what to do before M1 starts. Like you, I've never had a real summer because my parents always enrolled me in classes to mitigate summer supervision expenses, and I feel like it would only make me lazier rather than relaxed.

Anyway, thanks for all the advice and input. Sorry for being one of those people, but everyone on here seems to do well and I respect the advice and opinions offered here.

 

[DermViser]

As a supplement to free time in the summer, would it be better to go over physio again to make sure that I understand all the concepts and feel good about the material? Or go ahead and make a first pass through Pathoma to preview M2 material?

I would go through Physiology. It's really not that difficult to go through the Physiology Costanzo book. You're only strengthening your understanding of it since you're already been through it once in the course. MS-2 builds on that with Pharmacology and Pathology. I wouldn't go through Pathoma now bc the material is not familiar to you, so you have no way of discriminating what details are important and what isn't. Pathoma (or Goljan, whatever) is best used ALONG WITH your Pathology course, when things will click better.

 

[Leonidis I]

I would go through Physiology. It's really not that difficult to go through the Physiology Costanzo book. You're only strengthening your understanding of it since you're already been through it once in the course. MS-2 builds on that with Pharmacology and Pathology. I wouldn't go through Pathoma now bc the material is not familiar to you, so you have no way of discriminating what details are important and what isn't. Pathoma (or Goljan, whatever) is best used ALONG WITH your Pathology course, when things will click better.

View attachment 180778

Have you even watched Pathoma? He makes it so simple that you don't need any previous exposure. And he explains any relevant anatomy/physio/pharm tie-ins. A middle schooler could understand path the way Sattar teaches. Plus its only 35 hrs long so you could watch 1 hr a day during weekdays and easily finish it over a typical MS1 summer. Pathoma = best 1st exposure to path.

Here's what I would do. Watch ~1 hr of pathoma each day. But split it up into 15-20 min segments. Also watch it when you're not doing anything else like when you're eating meals or just about to go to sleep. That way it doesn't feel like you're doing any work. And honestly the way he explains it it doesn't feel like work. DON'T try and memorize anything just go for the core concepts. That way you'll have a great foundation to start 2nd year and fill in details from more in depth resources like class lectures, textbooks, etc.

For physio don't use the big Costanza textbook. Don't even use BRS physio (also by Costanzo). At this point you should have a decent knowledge of physio so focus on clinical vignettes and problem solving. Plus, using formal textbooks/review books during summer can lead to burnout so you need something more engaging and fun. So instead use Costanzo's Cases book (http://www.amazon.com/Physiology-Cases-Problems-Review-Series/dp/1451120613). It has like 60 cases. Each one is a clinical vignette followed by 7-10 open ended questions and then answers and explanations to those questions. Try and go through 1-2 cases a day. Again do it at a time when you're not doing anything else. Place it your bathroom and go through a case every time you take a dump. So again it won't feel like you're doing any work.

If you STILL want to add more then put goljan on your mp3 player but only listen to it while driving or working out. Although I personally wouldn't until later in the year since he's very integrative and assumes you know a lot more than Sattar does.

tl;dr: don't do any formal study during the summer. Instead just try and fit in fun, digestible resources only when you're doing something else like eating, pooping, driving, working out, etc.

 

[DermViser]

Have you even watched Pathoma? He makes it so simple that you don't need any previous exposure. And he explains any relevant anatomy/physio/pharm tie-ins. A middle schooler could understand path the way Sattar teaches. Plus its only 35 hrs long so you could watch 1 hr a day during weekdays and easily finish it over a typical MS1 summer. Pathoma = best 1st exposure to path.

Here's what I would do. Watch ~1 hr of pathoma each day. But split it up into 15-20 min segments. Also watch it when you're not doing anything else like when you're eating meals or just about to go to sleep. That way it doesn't feel like you're doing any work. And honestly the way he explains it it doesn't feel like work. DON'T try and memorize anything just go for the core concepts. That way you'll have a great foundation to start 2nd year and fill in details from more in depth resources like class lectures, textbooks, etc.

For physio don't use the big Costanza textbook. Don't even use BRS physio (also by Costanzo). At this point you should have a decent knowledge of physio so focus on clinical vignettes and problem solving. Plus, using formal textbooks/review books during summer can lead to burnout so you need something more engaging and fun. So instead use Costanzo's Cases book (http://www.amazon.com/Physiology-Cases-Problems-Review-Series/dp/1451120613). It has like 60 cases. Each one is a clinical vignette followed by 7-10 open ended questions and then answers and explanations to those questions. Try and go through 1-2 cases a day. Again do it at a time when you're not doing anything else. Place it your bathroom and go through a case every time you take a dump. So again it won't feel like you're doing any work.

If you STILL want to add more then put goljan on your mp3 player but only listen to it while driving or working out. Although I personally wouldn't until later in the year since he's very integrative and assumes you know a lot more than Sattar does.

tl;dr: don't do any formal study during the summer. Instead just try and fit in fun, digestible resources only when you're doing something else like eating, pooping, driving, working out, etc.

How do you know the OP has fully mastered Physiology? Costanzo's Physiology is not a textbook. It's a review book, although a more explanatory one than BRS. Also, he hasn't taken Pharm yet. I'm not the OP.

 

[Venko]

Have you even watched Pathoma? He makes it so simple that you don't need any previous exposure. And he explains any relevant anatomy/physio/pharm tie-ins. A middle schooler could understand path the way Sattar teaches. Plus its only 35 hrs long so you could watch 1 hr a day during weekdays and easily finish it over a typical MS1 summer. Pathoma = best 1st exposure to path.

Here's what I would do. Watch ~1 hr of pathoma each day. But split it up into 15-20 min segments. Also watch it when you're not doing anything else like when you're eating meals or just about to go to sleep. That way it doesn't feel like you're doing any work. And honestly the way he explains it it doesn't feel like work. DON'T try and memorize anything just go for the core concepts. That way you'll have a great foundation to start 2nd year and fill in details from more in depth resources like class lectures, textbooks, etc.

For physio don't use the big Costanza textbook. Don't even use BRS physio (also by Costanzo). At this point you should have a decent knowledge of physio so focus on clinical vignettes and problem solving. Plus, using formal textbooks/review books during summer can lead to burnout so you need something more engaging and fun. So instead use Costanzo's Cases book (http://www.amazon.com/Physiology-Cases-Problems-Review-Series/dp/1451120613). It has like 60 cases. Each one is a clinical vignette followed by 7-10 open ended questions and then answers and explanations to those questions. Try and go through 1-2 cases a day. Again do it at a time when you're not doing anything else. Place it your bathroom and go through a case every time you take a dump. So again it won't feel like you're doing any work.

If you STILL want to add more then put goljan on your mp3 player but only listen to it while driving or working out. Although I personally wouldn't until later in the year since he's very integrative and assumes you know a lot more than Sattar does.

tl;dr: don't do any formal study during the summer. Instead just try and fit in fun, digestible resources only when you're doing something else like eating, pooping, driving, working out, etc.

Amazing. Your whole post seems to focus on what's easy and overlooks te fact that the brain does not necessarily shatter into a million pieces for some people who decide to work hard in the summer.

The OP is a year round worker and is ready to either significantly advance himself for the next year by studying path or to significantly patch up some holes in his phys knowledge.

Your suggestions of resources may still be the right ones but try to understand the OP doesn't seem to mind if he breaks a mental sweat actually studying something and would in fact want to keep his highly capable mental machine running at optimal efficiency throughout summer and into the M2 year.

Why is everyone so focused on burnout. It's almost a handicap now. Sure some people get fatigued and it happens to everyone at different levels of stress but wow you would think we have ICUs full of medical students and residents needing decompressive craniectomies because their brains are swelling from studying in the summer before or after M1 or working hard at the end of M4, or having a study plan as a resident.

Come on gang, come out of the closet, don't worry burnout is not a permanent state of dysfunction but rather a temporary loss of enjoyment which is cured by adding a little bit (not exorbitant) of personal time into your schedule temporarily. Out of fear don't short change your abilities and potential.

 

[HLxDrummer]

If you really want to do something, which I'm not sure I would, I would recommend flagging some MS1 topics on Firecracker. That way you can review and actually retain it (vs. looking at it once over the summer).

 

[DermViser]

Amazing. Your whole post seems to focus on what's easy and overlooks te fact that the brain does not necessarily shatter into a million pieces for some people who decide to work hard in the summer.

The OP is a year round worker and is ready to either significantly advance himself for the next year by studying path or to significantly patch up some wholes in his phys knowledge.

Your suggestions of resources may still be the right ones but try to understand the OP doesn't seem to mind he breaks a mental sweat actually studying something and would in fact want to keep his highly capable mental machine running at optimal efficiency throughout summer and into the M2 year.

Why is everyone so focused on burnout. It's almost a handicap now. Sure some people get fatigued and it happens to everyone at different levels of stress but wow you would think we have ICUs full of medical students and residents needing decompressor craniectomies because their brains are swelling from studying in the summer before or after M1 or working hard at the end of M4, or having a study plan as a resident.

Come on gang come out of the closet, don't worry burnout is not a permanent state of dysfunction but rather a temporary loss of enjoyment which is cured by adding a little bit (not exorbitant) of personal time into your schedule temporarily. Out of fear don't short change your abilities and potential.

I've never understood this either on SDN. Each one of us has a different threshold for burnout which is affected by many factors: stamina & endurance as demonstrated by previous performance, our internal circadian rhythm, mental stress, studying efficiency, etc. What would burn out one person easily, would be just getting the ball rolling for others. Some people can only study 5 hrs a day, others can study for 10 hours and be perfectly fine.

How on SDN perusing through a review text would make someone burn out is beyond me. Oh, that's right, that's bc instead of lightly reviewing like they said they would, they go all Gung-Ho, pedal to the metal, and then complain about how exhausted and burnt out they are. How the OP is supposed to understand Pathoma now, and its "relevant anatomy/physio/pharm tie-ins". when he 1) hasn't taken Path, 2) hasn't taken Pharm, and 3) may be not as strong in Physiology knowledge, doesn't make sense.

 

[BobbyB]

start reading big book Robbins

you won't have time to go over the small details during the school year

this way there is no pressure and you can read leisurely

during the school year you always have a lot of other information to cover so you rely on high-yield material only

 

[redblue]

To clarify - I feel fairly strong in physio, I've been scoring in the high 80s, low 90s on each system. I feel like I can still improve how well I understand everything, but not sure if Pathoma would help or hinder that process. I've been keeping up with Firecracker, but I think it only gives me the ability to spit out facts and make word/fact associations and doesn't necessarily strengthen the "big picture" approach to medicine.

I think reading Big Robbins would make me burn out for sure though because it seems too dense for me to get through in the summer

 

[Psai]

It's not about burnout, it's that it's stupid to study in the summer. You won't remember most of it a year later when you're actually taking step 1. Most people get by just fine without extra study. I can barely remember what clomiphene does and I just finished repro.

 

[redblue]

It's not about burnout, it's that it's stupid to study in the summer. You won't remember most of it a year later when you're actually taking step 1. Most people get by just fine without extra study. I can barely remember what clomiphene does and I just finished repro.

I think being able to draw out what happens in normal physio is something that everyone can and should remember long-term. I had a resident pimp me on basic cardio physio and proceeded to draw out half of the graphs from BRS from memory to explain concepts I had forgotten. Yea of course the details are going to fade, but I want to have big picture concepts ingrained. My question is if going through Costanzo/BRS again over the summer is going to help me do that, or if my time is better spent getting a big picture idea of pathology over the summer so that when M2 starts, I'll have an idea of what's important to remember long-term and what's not. If you don't agree with this, you don't have to keep coming back to the thread.

 

[DermViser]

It's not about burnout, it's that it's stupid to study in the summer. You won't remember most of it a year later when you're actually taking step 1. Most people get by just fine without extra study. I can barely remember what clomiphene does and I just finished repro.

We're not talking about factoids here. Those can always be brute-force memorized later. We're talking about underlying concepts with application. Example: The regulation of BP normally and the response after hemorrhage.

 

[Venko]

To clarify - I feel fairly strong in physio, I've been scoring in the high 80s, low 90s on each system. I feel like I can still improve how well I understand everything, but not sure if Pathoma would help or hinder that process. I've been keeping up with Firecracker, but I think it only gives me the ability to spit out facts and make word/fact associations and doesn't necessarily strengthen the "big picture" approach to medicine.

I think reading Big Robbins would make me burn out for sure though because it seems too dense for me to get through in the summer

Entirely your call; do as you think is right🙂

 

[dyspareunia]

FWIW I'll be going through Pathoma this summer. Going to annotate the videos into the book so I don't have to spend time doing it next year. I don't anticipate any significant amount of learning though. It's more like cooking for the entire week rather than dealing with it every night.

 

[DermViser]

To clarify - I feel fairly strong in physio, I've been scoring in the high 80s, low 90s on each system. I feel like I can still improve how well I understand everything, but not sure if Pathoma would help or hinder that process. I've been keeping up with Firecracker, but I think it only gives me the ability to spit out facts and make word/fact associations and doesn't necessarily strengthen the "big picture" approach to medicine.

I think reading Big Robbins would make me burn out for sure though because it seems too dense for me to get through in the summer

Definitely don't read Big Robbins, it's overkill esp. for the boards. It's excellent for pictures though. There is a smaller version of the book anyways: Basic Pathology which you can read during the course if you wanted to: http://www.amazon.com/Robbins-Basic...id=1398783633&sr=8-1&keywords=Basic+Pathology

 

[Kaputt]

To be honest since the OP asked physio or pathoma...I do think he is the first to start a thread on this topic. I think we as posters are the unoriginal here.

It's a thread about reviewing M1 material or prestudying for M2. This is hardly unique.

Also, the idea that the "research" one will do in a summer will make huge impact on their residency application over step 1 success may not be universal truth. Many students have spent time doing research and not all gain publication or presentation. Without those the time is not a total waste but not a huge advantage over peers at least in my eyes. Since step 1 scores are frequently used as a filter for interview (unlike research) studying one of the big three content areas (pharm, physio, path) is not such a crazy idea.

Studying for Step 1 during the summer between M1 and M2 is a waste of time. You won't retain any useful information. Studying in this period, I would argue, will have ZERO impact on your Step 1 score.

Getting involved in a research project in your area of interest is not a waste of time at all, even if you don't get any publications or presentations. You'll be networking, growing your interest in a field, and potentially starting something that you could continue throughout your med school career.

Finally, though I agree that for many people, relaxation may be the very best solution, I recognize that some may wish to study something. It may ease the anxiety over the next year or provide a better foundation going into the next challenge or offer something else.

Ease the anxiety by feeding their neuroticism? Interesting theory but I disagree.

I took coursework in the summers after 6th, 7th, 8th grades, 11th grade, first year of college (graduated after spring of second year), and after first year of medical school. I never burned out. Others did more than me. Don't let this persons motivation make you feel inadequate for not studying in the summer. There are many ways to do this thing successfully, you don't need to go all caps on anyone.

You may not have burned out, but that doesn't mean your studying between M1 and M2 was valuable.

 

[ChEMD]

It's a thread about reviewing M1 material or prestudying for M2. This is hardly unique.



Studying for Step 1 during the summer between M1 and M2 is a waste of time. You won't retain any useful information. Studying in this period, I would argue, will have ZERO impact on your Step 1 score.

Getting involved in a research project in your area of interest is not a waste of time at all, even if you don't get any publications or presentations. You'll be networking, growing your interest in a field, and potentially starting something that you could continue throughout your med school career.



Ease the anxiety by feeding their neuroticism? Interesting theory but I disagree.



You may not have burned out, but that doesn't mean your studying between M1 and M2 was valuable.

The OP didn't even mention step 1. What's wrong with going back and making sure you understand and remember things you were supposed to learn during first year? Are the concepts you learn in physiology not important for understanding material in second year?

 

[Kaputt]

The OP didn't even mention step 1. What's wrong with going back and making sure you understand and remember things you were supposed to learn during first year? Are the concepts you learn in physiology not important for understanding material in second year?

I didn't mention Step 1 either, until Venko did.

I'm saying you shouldn't waste your time. By passing first year you made sure you understood the material. This is your last summer ever...enjoy it.

 

[Venko]

It's a thread about reviewing M1 material or prestudying for M2. This is hardly unique.



Studying for Step 1 during the summer between M1 and M2 is a waste of time. You won't retain any useful information. Studying in this period, I would argue, will have ZERO impact on your Step 1 score.

Getting involved in a research project in your area of interest is not a waste of time at all, even if you don't get any publications or presentations. You'll be networking, growing your interest in a field, and potentially starting something that you could continue throughout your med school career.



Ease the anxiety by feeding their neuroticism? Interesting theory but I disagree.



You may not have burned out, but that doesn't mean your studying between M1 and M2 was valuable.

Kaputt, Im not sure I recall a thread that compared the option of reviewing M1 material against prestudying for M2. Can you show a thread the compares just these two options? Also, if you want to generalize, you could say that he asked a question about medical school education decisions...wow there are a lot of threads on that one! Certainly the question may seem old hat to you, but to this person they seem genuinely interested in the opinions of others who may have more experience; this is exactly what SDN was designed for. We have all benefited from the ability to ask questions openly, try and continue to foster this without making someone feel bad for asking something. Its just courtesy and its a way of showing wisdom.

As for your thought that studying in the summer is a waste of time. its good that the OP gets to hear your view, but please allow for the possiblity that others disagree. The OP will get the benefit of all of our ideas on the topic. It seems in this case, though, the OP was not asking whether to study but rather what to study. Different questioni and one you probably could have answered in a less condescending tone. Ive been guilty of belittling others questions or ideas before and will likely be again, but I hope people will point me in a better direction when it happens.

As for studying in th summer, I have always looked at it like sports. Medical students are like division I athletes. Very few athletes do absolutely no physical activity in the off-season. Most will lessen their intensity but still exercise / practice their craft because it keeps them in good position to excel when the next season starts. Similarly, I have not taken a full summer off from mental exercise such as studying since I was in 2nd grade (honest truth - asian parents🙂 ). Some athletes, especially those competing for all-america status, or hoping to go to the olympics, or some other unique reason actually work out ferrociously in the off-season to shore up weaknesses or advance strengths. Some medical students do the same thing. There is absolutely nothing wrong about it and certainly nothing wasted. Athletes worry about not overworking themselves to injury but this does not sideline them for an entire summer...in fact that would increase their risk of injury the following season. Instead, they listen to their bodies and tone down the intensity at times to allow their bodies to heal or recover...never off, just lessened. Your mind can do the same thing. I was raised to view continuous learning as a lifestyle and I am big proponent of the concept that you shouldn't turn the brain completely off for two to three months. Its too hard to get it to return to optimal performance in my opinion. I know this is not a universal view and may not be in line wiht th OPs view either. Yet, i offer it just in case it is.

Now about research...this is my take as someone who has been part of residency rank lists, and as a young researcher with a few small accolades in this arena. Research is not wasted time. There will be somethign learned about good technique vs suboptimal technique, about the subject matter at hand, and youre right about networking. With that said, very few opportunities for professional growth are wasted time and the learner must judge which opportunities are the best bang for their buck with their specific goals in mind. For some that may be research, for others it may be studying.

Regarding anxiety. When people are anxious about a test...we tell them to prepare for it right? Same concept. If you're anxious about medical school or the second year, the answer that has worked for me and my family has been to begin preparing for it. Again, maybe this is unique to me and our (my mom's, dad's, sister's, wife's, etc) success has just been a fluke. Its possible...its also possible it works for some people.

About burnout...my point was not that because I didnt burn out the study was valuable, but rather you suggested there could be serious harm ("burnout") from studying in the summer. I offer my example to say that for me and for select others it has not been the case. With less potential risk, the risk benefit analysis of this decision may change for the student.

I want to stress that I think your thoughts are valuable and certainly add to the OPs usable information. its great you put it here but please be open to their asking questions and leave the possibility that you dont know the right answers for all people.

 

[ChEMD]

I didn't mention Step 1 either, until Venko did.

I'm saying you shouldn't waste your time. By passing first year you made sure you understood the material. This is your last summer ever...enjoy it.

I guess I just wouldn't be so quick to tell people they are wasting their time. Just because you don't think it would have made a difference for you doesn't mean it wouldn't help other people. There are plenty of things I have forgotten, but after I review them, I feel like I know them even better than the first time I learned them and they will be stuck in my head for even longer. I've always been a big fan of spaced repetition. Plus, I know that there are people like me that just simply enjoy the stuff and really want to know it. Not just for step 1.

And I have to disagree, passing first year doesn't mean you remember anything from it.

 

[Kaputt]

I guess I just wouldn't be so quick to tell people they are wasting their time. Just because you don't think it would have made a difference for you doesn't mean it wouldn't help other people. There are plenty of things I have forgotten, but after I review them, I feel like I know them even better than the first time I learned them and they will be stuck in my head for even longer. I've always been a big fan of spaced repetition. Plus, I know that there are people like me that just simply enjoy the stuff and really want to know it. Not just for step 1.

And I have to disagree, passing first year doesn't mean you remember anything from it.

Can't believe it's apparently the norm now to study in the summer between M1/M2. Time to recede completely from sdn to /r/medicalschool.

 

[DermViser]

Can't believe it's apparently the norm now to study in the summer between M1/M2. Time to recede completely from sdn to /r/medicalschool.

This isn't the 1960s. The residency knot is tightening.

 

[LostinLift]

To clarify - I feel fairly strong in physio, I've been scoring in the high 80s, low 90s on each system. I feel like I can still improve how well I understand everything, but not sure if Pathoma would help or hinder that process. I've been keeping up with Firecracker,

Just curious, how much do you have banked and mastered?

Kaputt, Im not sure I recall a thread that compared the option of reviewing M1 material against prestudying for M2. Can you show a thread the compares just these two options? Also, if you want to generalize, you could say that he asked a question about medical school education decisions...wow there are a lot of threads on that one! Certainly the question may seem old hat to you, but to this person they seem genuinely interested in the opinions of others who may have more experience; this is exactly what SDN was designed for. We have all benefited from the ability to ask questions openly, try and continue to foster this without making someone feel bad for asking something. Its just courtesy and its a way of showing wisdom.

As for your thought that studying in the summer is a waste of time. its good that the OP gets to hear your view, but please allow for the possiblity that others disagree. The OP will get the benefit of all of our ideas on the topic. It seems in this case, though, the OP was not asking whether to study but rather what to study. Different questioni and one you probably could have answered in a less condescending tone. Ive been guilty of belittling others questions or ideas before and will likely be again, but I hope people will point me in a better direction when it happens.

As for studying in th summer, I have always looked at it like sports. Medical students are like division I athletes. Very few athletes do absolutely no physical activity in the off-season. Most will lessen their intensity but still exercise / practice their craft because it keeps them in good position to excel when the next season starts. Similarly, I have not taken a full summer off from mental exercise such as studying since I was in 2nd grade (honest truth - asian parents🙂 ). Some athletes, especially those competing for all-america status, or hoping to go to the olympics, or some other unique reason actually work out ferrociously in the off-season to shore up weaknesses or advance strengths. Some medical students do the same thing. There is absolutely nothing wrong about it and certainly nothing wasted. Athletes worry about not overworking themselves to injury but this does not sideline them for an entire summer...in fact that would increase their risk of injury the following season. Instead, they listen to their bodies and tone down the intensity at times to allow their bodies to heal or recover...never off, just lessened. Your mind can do the same thing. I was raised to view continuous learning as a lifestyle and I am big proponent of the concept that you shouldn't turn the brain completely off for two to three months. Its too hard to get it to return to optimal performance in my opinion. I know this is not a universal view and may not be in line wiht th OPs view either. Yet, i offer it just in case it is.

Now about research...this is my take as someone who has been part of residency rank lists, and as a young researcher with a few small accolades in this arena. Research is not wasted time. There will be somethign learned about good technique vs suboptimal technique, about the subject matter at hand, and youre right about networking. With that said, very few opportunities for professional growth are wasted time and the learner must judge which opportunities are the best bang for their buck with their specific goals in mind. For some that may be research, for others it may be studying.

Regarding anxiety. When people are anxious about a test...we tell them to prepare for it right? Same concept. If you're anxious about medical school or the second year, the answer that has worked for me and my family has been to begin preparing for it. Again, maybe this is unique to me and our (my mom's, dad's, sister's, wife's, etc) success has just been a fluke. Its possible...its also possible it works for some people.

About burnout...my point was not that because I didnt burn out the study was valuable, but rather you suggested there could be serious harm ("burnout") from studying in the summer. I offer my example to say that for me and for select others it has not been the case. With less potential risk, the risk benefit analysis of this decision may change for the student.

I want to stress that I think your thoughts are valuable and certainly add to the OPs usable information. its great you put it here but please be open to their asking questions and leave the possibility that you dont know the right answers for all people.

As both a former NCAA athlete and summer school attendee, I agree with your message. So what you're saying is......... I can pre-study for MS1? 🙂 Kidding, while I am spending my free time relaxing I am also doing a lot of reading on efficiency, memory, studying, etc.

 

[dyspareunia]

Can't believe it's apparently the norm now to study in the summer between M1/M2. Time to recede completely from sdn to /r/medicalschool.

Times are changing. Replace "study" in your above statement with "research" and that's what MS2s were saying 10 years ago.

 

[DermViser]

As both a former NCAA athlete and summer school attendee, I agree with your message. So what you're saying is......... I can pre-study for MS1? 🙂 Kidding, while I am spending my free time relaxing I am also doing a lot of reading on efficiency, memory, studying, etc.

Yes, you can. Shocking, I know.

 

[Donald Juan]

I certainly never recommend that anyone wastes their last summer studying, but here is my experience with it.

I tried to finish a 6000 card anki deck over FA that someone else had made. Because I was also doing research, it was a completely unrealistic task. Also, I had to look up so many facts because I didn't know anything about pathology or pharmacology. Basically, the task might have been possible if I didn't do research and spent 10 hours a day studying (which again, I'm not recommending anybody do). All I got through was biochem, cardio, and a bit of immuno and micro. I stopped using that anki deck as soon as M2 started.

Well, I can't say if it helped me or anything, but when we did our cardio section in M2 I got a 96 and 97 on the two tests, and I'm usually a mid 80's kind of guy. Maybe I'm just a natural cardiologist.

I don't understand this "you're not gonna remember it anyway" mentality. That's almost like saying, "What's the point of learning pharm, micro, genetic translocations, and every other little detail during M1 and M2? You're not gonna remember it anyway and you'll just have to learn it again two weeks before your boards." It doesn't matter. Familiarity makes things easier.

My recommendation is to do Pathoma if you're gonna do anything. Make anki cards from it, and drill every word Dr. Sattar says into your head. It should literally take 1 hour a day.

 

[dyspareunia]

I certainly never recommend that anyone wastes their last summer studying, but here is my experience with it.

I tried to finish a 6000 card anki deck over FA that someone else had made. Because I was also doing research, it was a completely unrealistic task. Also, I had to look up so many facts because I didn't know anything about pathology or pharmacology. Basically, the task might have been possible if I didn't do research and spent 10 hours a day studying (which again, I'm not recommending anybody do). All I got through was biochem, cardio, and a bit of immuno and micro. I stopped using that anki deck as soon as M2 started.

Well, I can't say if it helped me or anything, but when we did our cardio section in M2 I got a 96 and 97 on the two tests, and I'm usually a mid 80's kind of guy. Maybe I'm just a natural cardiologist.

I don't understand this "you're not gonna remember it anyway" mentality. That's almost like saying, "What's the point of learning pharm, micro, genetic translocations, and every other little detail during M1 and M2? You're not gonna remember it anyway and you'll just have to learn it again two weeks before your boards." It doesn't matter. Familiarity makes things easier.

My recommendation is to do Pathoma if you're gonna do anything. Make anki cards from it, and drill every word Dr. Sattar says into your head. It should literally take 1 hour a day.

I also find the whole "last summer" thing to be completely overblown. Sure you may never have 8 consecutive weeks of "freedom" again until retirement, but most of us don't have money to do anything worthwhile anyway. I'll take 2 weeks and a comfy MD salary over 8 weeks and 4 months worth of student loans stretched to last 6 months.

 

[ChEMD]

I certainly never recommend that anyone wastes their last summer studying, but here is my experience with it.

I tried to finish a 6000 card anki deck over FA that someone else had made. Because I was also doing research, it was a completely unrealistic task. Also, I had to look up so many facts because I didn't know anything about pathology or pharmacology. Basically, the task might have been possible if I didn't do research and spent 10 hours a day studying (which again, I'm not recommending anybody do). All I got through was biochem, cardio, and a bit of immuno and micro. I stopped using that anki deck as soon as M2 started.

Well, I can't say if it helped me or anything, but when we did our cardio section in M2 I got a 96 and 97 on the two tests, and I'm usually a mid 80's kind of guy. Maybe I'm just a natural cardiologist.

I don't understand this "you're not gonna remember it anyway" mentality. That's almost like saying, "What's the point of learning pharm, micro, genetic translocations, and every other little detail during M1 and M2? You're not gonna remember it anyway and you'll just have to learn it again two weeks before your boards." It doesn't matter. Familiarity makes things easier.

My recommendation is to do Pathoma if you're gonna do anything. Make anki cards from it, and drill every word Dr. Sattar says into your head. It should literally take 1 hour a day.

Seems like you may have had a less than ideal experience because you tried to study material that you hadn't learned yet. It'd probably be easier to just focus on reviewing material that you have learned rather than pre-studying for the next year's material. What do you think?

 

[Donald Juan]

Seems like you may have had a less than ideal experience because you tried to study material that you hadn't learned yet. It'd probably be easier to just focus on reviewing material that you have learned rather than pre-studying for the next year's material. What do you think?

Here's the conundrum: learning everything in M2 over the summer beforehand is not possible, and relearning M1 stuff is a waste of time because most of it is so low-yield in the long run.

I genuinely think pathoma is a manageable option, and I believe that his explanations are understandable enough for a first year med student to get it. I usually watched the relevant chapters of pathoma in my class before doing any of our lectures and I understood him just fine (I understood Dr. Sattar better than most of my lecturers). A lack of immunology might give some kinks here and there, but most of it shouldn't be a big deal.

 

[Kaputt]

This isn't the 1960s. The residency knot is tightening.

I was referencing 2011, which was my summer between M1 and M2, but apparently that is millions of years ago in Neurotic Med Student evolution.

I agree with Donald Juan, above -- effectively previewing M2 is impossible (not enough time, and let's be real -- it's akin to studying for anatomy before M1) and reviewing M1 material is a waste since so much of it is low-yield for boards. Pathoma would potentially offer a nice alternative, where you could dip your feet into path/M2 material, but let's be real -- if it's anything less than serious studying why bother? The only benefit of doing this is to ease your mind into thinking you're being "productive".

And yeah, the residency knot is tightening. But 8 weeks of pathoma in the summer between M1/M2 ain't going to do jack for your Step 1 score, class rank, or overall chances. But starting a research project definitely can help. Everybody and their mom has good research these days. If you are going to choose your battles I'd choose that one.

 

[ChEMD]

I was referencing 2011, which was my summer between M1 and M2, but apparently that is millions of years ago in Neurotic Med Student evolution.

I agree with Donald Juan, above -- effectively previewing M2 is impossible (not enough time, and let's be real -- it's akin to studying for anatomy before M1) and reviewing M1 material is a waste since so much of it is low-yield for boards. Pathoma would potentially offer a nice alternative, where you could dip your feet into path/M2 material, but let's be real -- if it's anything less than serious studying why bother? The only benefit of doing this is to ease your mind into thinking you're being "productive".

And yeah, the residency knot is tightening. But 8 weeks of pathoma in the summer between M1/M2 ain't going to do jack for your Step 1 score, class rank, or overall chances. But starting a research project definitely can help. Everybody and their mom has good research these days. If you are going to choose your battles I'd choose that one.

Not everything is about step 1 scores and residency matches. Ultimately, yes, those things are what affect your career big picture. But what about spacing out the learning in order to make it less stressful. Yes, during 2nd year cardio block they're probably going to review the important physiology, but depending on how well you already know it, you may have to spend a significant amount of time reviewing it when you should be learning the pathology. On the other hand, you could make sure that you have the big stuff down by reviewing it during a low-stress period of time. That way, you don't have to spend much time on it during second year, so you have more time to study the new material and maybe have a little bit more free time to help keep you sane.

Students that take both approaches can achieve the same step score, I'm not arguing that. However, the path to get there could possibly be less stressful if you space it out.

And I don't think anyone here is saying that research isn't a good idea during the summer.

 

[DrEnderW]

Reading BRS Physio (250 pages) again over 8 weeks is hardly neurotic studying. That's like 3-4 pages per day... and there's no denying spaced repetition is key for many people.

That, FC, and 6 weeks of research is my plan. Sounds a ton more relaxing than first year or training for a college sport was.

 

[CodeRedDew]

Why not pathoma and research? It isn't like research is going to take 24 hours out of your day and I doubt it is anywhere near as demanding as studying during MS1

 

[Kaputt]

Not everything is about step 1 scores and residency matches. Ultimately, yes, those things are what affect your career big picture. But what about spacing out the learning in order to make it less stressful. Yes, during 2nd year cardio block they're probably going to review the important physiology, but depending on how well you already know it, you may have to spend a significant amount of time reviewing it when you should be learning the pathology. On the other hand, you could make sure that you have the big stuff down by reviewing it during a low-stress period of time. That way, you don't have to spend much time on it during second year, so you have more time to study the new material and maybe have a little bit more free time to help keep you sane.

Students that take both approaches can achieve the same step score, I'm not arguing that. However, the path to get there could possibly be less stressful if you space it out.

People keep moving the goal-posts in this discussion. Is it about boards/residency apps or not?

Your argument about spacing the material out only applies if you commit to studying as hard in the summer as you do during the school year. Otherwise it's like working out with 1 lbs weights...sure you're working out, but it's not like you're going to see results.

But to each their own.

And I don't think anyone here is saying that research isn't a good idea during the summer.

Folks replying to my comment to do research instead bemoaned the fact that a short summer of research may not yield pubs or presentations. So yes, some people are saying research isn't as good an idea as crackin' down on some Pathoma all summer.

 

[notbobtrustme]

this is all you should be doing for summer post M1

 

[Kaputt]

Finally someone enters this thread with their head on right.

Since I'm not much of a stout man myself, I'd rather be enjoying one of these:

 

[dyspareunia]

Trying to learn M2 pathology on your own is a waste of time. Find time to relax for sure - M2 burnout can be very real - but if you're going to do something, I'd recommend shadowing/working with physicians.

Med school is structured in a way that you get exposure to 6-7 "core" specialties during your 3rd year, and then you may have time for an elective or two (if you're not busy doing aways), and then you have to decide what you're going to do for the rest of your life. Without exposure to the vast majority of medical fields. It's an inane system. Once you hit M2 year, any extra time you have will be gone. So if you really want to do something, spend a few days with docs in PM&R, derm, ENT, sports med, ophtho, etc. When it comes time to decide what field you want to enter, you'll be glad you took the time to expose yourself to as many specialties as possible.

I've been doing it for much of the year.. not that difficult or time consuming. Not every curriculum is the same.

What's the big deal if someone wants to study? Some people legitimately like learning this stuff.

 

[Venko]

Can't believe it's apparently the norm now to study in the summer between M1/M2. Time to recede completely from sdn to /r/medicalschool.

I get that it's making you uncomfortable since you didn't study. It's okay to not study, it's okay to study, it's okay to want to study for whatever reason...,self improvement, love of learning, ease anxiety, prepare for step 1, attractive librarian...dude it's just okay for people to find their own way. I don't think there is a norm, just a bunch of individuals doing things their way for their own reasons.

 

[Kaputt]

I get that it's making you uncomfortable since you didn't study. It's okay to not study, it's okay to study, it's okay to want to study for whatever reason...,self improvement, love of learning, ease anxiety, prepare for step 1, attractive librarian...dude it's just okay for people to find their own way. I don't think there is a norm, just a bunch of individuals doing things their way for their own reasons.

Attractive librarian is the only valid reason in this list.

All joking aside, true confessions time: I did study between M1 and M2. It was a waste of time. I had no perspective and was doing it out of anxiety. Listen up, people: the sooner you learn to deal with the anxiety by enjoying your free time, the more content you will be. I used to judge myself by my academic success and the moment I tried to stop doing that, I became much happier. There are too many people who are like I was and treat med school like it's their life. I find that sad because I remember how it felt and it didn't feel good. These 8-10 weeks of vacation are truly your last extended break like that, so I would use it to visit as many family and old friends as possible, not worry about school, and simply relax.

You don't need to take a trip to Europe or self-actualize, but a vacation from studying isn't going to wipe everything from first year out of your brain or make you so far behind for second year that you'll score sub-200 on Step 1. The fact that the OP, and so many of these other folks, are even considering this is proof enough that they're motivated students. Reward yourselves with a break. Turn off your med school brain. Mine's been turned off since September and boy does it feel great.