Post Your Surgery Interview Reviews!!!

[Winged Scapula]

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C'mon....I know you guys are interviewing. How about helping each other out (and of course, next year's class) and PM me your thoughts on programs?

I'll post them here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=472008
either anonymously or with your user name.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Bump...

 

[drtx]

Did anybody else get pimped on an interview with an IOC of a retained stone? I swear to you, this program had an IOC and was asking me (4th yr med student) what was the percentage of this occurring, complications, management of this complication....

Then they had me drop down and give them 20...No, just kidding. But the above interview story is really true.

 

[Blade28]

IOC?

Intraoperative cholangiogram?
Intraoperative consult?

International Olympic Committee? ( 🙂 )

 

[Castro Viejo]

Did anybody else get pimped on an interview with an IOC of a retained stone? I swear to you, this program had an IOC and was asking me (4th yr med student) what was the percentage of this occurring, complications, management of this complication....

Then they had me drop down and give them 20...No, just kidding. But the above interview story is really true.

I got pimped at one of my interviews with angios, CTAs, MRAs, and of course, the "mock oral exam."

That was annoying.

 

[SocialistMD]

I got pimped at one of my interviews with angios, CTAs, MRAs, and of course, the "mock oral exam."

That's something I've never understood. If I already knew all the answers, what would I need with your program? I wouldn't have ranked a program had they done that to me.

 

[drtx]

I got pimped at one of my interviews with angios, CTAs, MRAs, and of course, the "mock oral exam."

That was annoying.

That is worse than my experience, for sure. The program I had this experience at was in TX and affiliated with the military, so I guess I wasn't too surprised. Definitely made me second guess where I was going to place it on the rank list, though.

 

[Winged Scapula]

You guys are ruining my (admittedly dead) thread!😡😉

What happened to all the medical students that asked me to create this thread? Why aren't they posting their interview experiences?

 

[Anasazi]

You guys are ruining my (admittedly dead) thread!😡😉

What happened to all the medical students that asked me to create this thread? Why aren't they posting their interview experiences?

While I wasn't among those who asked for this thread, I can offer my reason for not contributing. As I review my interview experiences (10 down, 3 to go), I feel like I am getting a pretty generic and enthusiastically positive overview of each program. While there have been a few interviewers with peculiar questions or interactions that I was more or less impressed by, I am hesitant to use such experiences to characterize the entire program, since my personal interests and preferences will bias much of what I have to say. That said, what I have to say about an interview would be little more than an overview, which anyone who interviews at a given institution will receive. The entry by Bananna Split is the only one with insight that wouldn't be gained by actually going to the interview yourself since they were a student at the program they were describing.
What I would find somewhat helpful in this big mess of trying to sort my experiences into a rank list that I am confident in would be insight similar to what is gleaned from Bananna Split or the scutwork.com website, and we know how slowly entries that are at all recent trickle in for the surgery programs on scutwork.
Anyway, Dr. Cox, I appreciate your input and all the effort you put into helping us wee ones, I just think some of us ask for information sometimes that is a bit redundant or that isn't very helpful (myself included). But I may be wrong, some may feel very enlightened by the entries that have been posted about the interviews.

 

[Anka]

I haven't posted for similar reasons. At the end of the day, I don't think I have much to offer because I don't often walk away without the sense that I just saw a really good show. It was a great show, but it was a show. Who knows what's under the mask?

Also, the type of information I'm interested in finding out probably isn't what most people want to know (at least, it's not what most people post about in reviews); it's also based largely on gut feeling, and I'm not sure how much of it I can communicate in a meaningful way. I couldn't care less about the call schedule or how nice the facilities are, so I don't ask about it. While every program tells you the numbers their chiefs graduate with, they are all about the same at the programs I am interviewing at. Also, numbers hide the most important information -- was the resident doing the case, or first assisting? And by doing the case, was it the attending saying "cut here, put a stich from here to here, now we do this" or was the chief 'leading' the case? What is the complexity of the cases? In the unit, is starting a pressor a fellow level decision, an attending level decision, or can the junior resident do it and tell the appropriate parties at a mutually convenient time? On the other end of things, is there going to be someone to back me up when I need help? Will my senior residents teach me what I need to know (i.e., will they be willing and able)? Is there a culture of "the patient's interest is the only interest"? Is there a culture of differentiation in which you know where you stand among the residents (i.e., the top 20% of residents are particularly valued given more freedom and opportunity; the middle 70% are the heart and soul of the program and treated well; the bottom 10% are remediated if possible, councelled out if necessary) or 'you all suck equally, stay off the radar or you're going to get gunned down'?

A lot of the time this information doesn't come from interviews at the place, but rather listening to people who spent significant time at another program (e.g., doing research and moonlighting at another institution). I usually ask them what the big differences are... you get a good sense for both their home institution and the one they visited that way.

Anka

 

[Winged Scapula]

What? You guys are actually using your brains during this process?

😉

Its the whole reason I have objected to interview reviews in the past. Most of the stuff you get isn't very helpful. Who cares how often you take call, or whether parking is free, etc? Those aren't the factors that make someone decide about a program and as you both note, interview days are often dog and pony shows where you can delineate very few real facts about a place.

I appreciate the input and your very valuable insight into how useful "interview reviews" really are.

 

[Southpaw]

.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I think that's the point of Anka's post: you don't know the things you are interested in. Programs may tell you they are 80 hour adherent, but you don't know if they're lying through their teeth during the interview.

The only way you know is if you are a medical student at said program, have rotated there as an elective or know someone who has. That's why interview reviews are generally not helpful for the things that most people want to know, because you don't get a behind the scenes look.

 

[Raidergate]

But in general, I'm concerned about what programs are adherent to the 80 hr rule?

I'm done interviewing for gen surg this year, and one piece of advice I'd give you if you plan on applying for any surgical residency is to NOT ask this question directly during an interview. Ask around at the night before dinner after everyone has a few drinks or something, but asking one of the chiefs or an attending if they're 80 hours compliant is kind of a black flag to them. Kind of one of those "is he really on fire about surgery, or is he more interested in a cushy life" type things.

I was asked directly in at least 5 of my interviews about my thoughts on the 80 hr work week. My answer was that I understand that patient care and safety is the most important goal while in the hospital and I'd like at least a semblance of a quality of life outside the hospital, but at the same time, these 5 years are the only chance I'll have to have direct training and I hate to think I'll be forced to miss out on important experiences because of a rule that I didn't have a part in initializing.

Like I said, if 80 hours compliance is the most important thing to you, be very careful how you go about finding that information out when interviewing.

 

[piacere714]

I've done 8 interviews so far and I have 3 more to go. Here are my general impressions of the programs that I've been to.

Most programs will try to tell you how compliant they are with the 80 hour work week. Especially programs that just had a site review or are due for a site review. If a program doesnt emphasize compliance with the 80 hour work week....that might be a red flag. However, my personal feeling is that if you are going into a surgery residency just because of the 80 hour work week, this probably isnt the best career choice.

I havent had any completely out there questions yet. Most of the interviews have been "getting to know you better" type interviews. I've had the "so what happened with your board score?" at one institution and "I'm going to describe a case to you...tell me what you would do" at another. I found the latter to be fair, the first one threw me off for a minute. The only other weird question I had was "how would you improve the residency program at your home institution?" This was at another program in the same city as my home institution.

My main approach has been to look at what makes each program unique and where I'm going to get the most rounded out experience (good mix between community and university, exposure across the board to specialty areas). I'm also very interested in international opportunities so I always ask about that as well.

I only applied to university based programs in major cities....so they start to blend together. If there is a particular area you are interested in, look to see how many cases the residents do in that area (if you like trauma but the residents only do the minimum number of cases required for trauma, probably not the best program for you). I've found that if you ask the program director or the chairman what they would like to change (rather than what they think is a weakness of the program), they will let you know which specialty areas are weaker than others.

Also, there will undoubtedly be medical students from the program interviewing the same day as you. ASK THEM WHAT THEY THINK! And if they dont plan to stay, ask them why. Most of the time it may be for personal reasons, but there are some disgruntled medical students out there.

 

[DOCNY81]

Like I said, if 80 hours compliance is the most important thing to you, be very careful how you go about finding that information out when interviewing.

As he said... if the 80 hour regulation is the most important thing to you maybe surgery (hard work) is not for you.👎

 

[Southpaw]

Like I said, if 80 hours compliance is the most important thing to you, be very careful how you go about finding that information out when interviewing.

Looking back I realize my post made it sound like the 80 hr rule was a big priority of mine. It's not. A surgeon I was working with recently told me that he believes it's good in theory, but he thinks too many residents miss out on learning opportunities because they have to leave at certain times due to the rule and some of their call time takes up hours but is time spent not learning.

For me, I want to learn as much as possible in my training years, but I also want to have a life outside of the hospital. I'm sure just about everyone does. I guess I'm more looking for programs that are efficient with resident hours. Efficiency in the hospital has been something I've found to be severely lacking during my M3 year.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

Looking back I realize my post made it sound like the 80 hr rule was a big priority of mine. It's not. A surgeon I was working with recently told me that he believes it's good in theory, but he thinks too many residents miss out on learning opportunities because they have to leave at certain times due to the rule and some of their call time takes up hours but is time spent not learning.

For me, I want to learn as much as possible in my training years, but I also want to have a life outside of the hospital. I'm sure just about everyone does. I guess I'm more looking for programs that are efficient with resident hours. Efficiency in the hospital has been something I've found to be severely lacking during my M3 year.

The inefficieny doesn't go away. If it were 80 hours of mainly educational things, it would be awesome. But, there is an incredible amount of BS that takes up your time and is really of no practical learning value. It's hard for me to think of spending 100 hours in the hospital when invariably 50% of that time might be of no educational value to me at all. I'm all about learning and doing a good job, but staying in the hospital hour after hour and doing scut work isn't a learning experience.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Efficiency in a hospital? Efficiency in academics?

Sorry son...I worked in academic medicine for years before medical school and I can tell you that it is one of the most inefficient bodies around.

As noted above, residency is also very inefficient. As a product of the old school, pre-80 hrs and post-80 hrs regulations, I can tell you that I spent a lot of downtime in the hospital...doing nothing, learning nothing, and essentially a waste of time (I find it pretty impossible to study with the pager going off at all times, so please don't suggest that I could have studied during call). It was pretty much NO better during the post-80 hr workweek...same inefficiencies, same waiting around time, etc. Same amount of work, less time but same BS as well.

The problem is that residency programs have little control over most of the BS inefficiency. You cannot control how long it takes to turn a room over (university hospitals are notoriously slow), get labs back, patient to CT, etc. This is a system issue, not a residency issue.

 

[acm1980]

As I am finishing my interviews for general surgery I have come across a problem with research at institutions. This problem stems from the fact that I think I know what I want to do with my career (Peds CT- CT fellowhip and as of right now, no research required), but what if I change my mind like to Peds surgery(I would then need 2 years of research). Some programs have a required 1-2 yrs, some offer 1-2 years and some offer the newer integrated programs. So the dilemma becomes one of making a choice now or going to the one school I have interviewed at (on the other side of the country) that will allow me flexibility in this area. The reason I find research to be a downer is because I will finish a PGY-10! and my plan to marry rich does not seem to be panning out😕
So I caution third years to think a bit more than I did when you apply to all major academic centers because many are very inflexible.