Preclinical Grades (yes i know)

[underdog427]

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I go to a unranked state school and essentially HP'd all my classes first year except for anatomy, P. Have I basically shot myself in the foot in trying to get into a "top tier" academic institution from my performance this year, or can I rebound second year with a good Step 1 score. I feel like AOA is out of the running from my performance first year. Thanks for some words of advice in advance.

 

[Wordead]

I go to a unranked state school and essentially HP'd all my classes first year except for anatomy, P. Have I basically shot myself in the foot in trying to get into a "top tier" academic institution from my performance this year, or can I rebound second year with a good Step 1 score. I feel like AOA is out of the running from my performance first year. Thanks for some words of advice in advance.

Do you know what the criteria for AOA is?

 

[underdog427]

80% grades (weighted on course hours; obviously 3rd year has the most)
20% (Research/ECs)
Step 1 doesn't factor into AOA for us.

 

[ralph1920]

.

 

[underdog427]

lol High Pass not Hardly

 

[Daodejing]

Does HP stand for 'hardly passed' at your school? I'm still in the learning process for AOA (start school in fall) but would one non honors pass really disrupt one's AOA chances?

OP: AOA depends on your class dynamics (re: how relatively good/bad-performing your classmates are). I don't think you're out of the running for top-tier residencies (unless you set your sights on something like derm), provided you blow your boards out of the water, rock 3rd year, get some pubs (preferably specialty-specific), and have good LORs.

 

[Wordead]

Step 1 can make up for AOA, AOA can't make up for Step 1. Plus as you said 3rd year matters most. So go crush step 1, get the rest of your affairs in order (research, recs, honor your clinicals) and you can do just fine and even make AOA if you care that much.

 

[kautionwirez]

Depends on which specialty.

Step 1>= LORs/3rd Year grades>(Research, more or less depending on the field)>AOA>Preclinical grades

 

[evilbooyaa]

I go to a unranked state school and essentially HP'd all my classes first year except for anatomy, P. Have I basically shot myself in the foot in trying to get into a "top tier" academic institution from my performance this year, or can I rebound second year with a good Step 1 score. I feel like AOA is out of the running from my performance first year. Thanks for some words of advice in advance.

Depends on your specialty choice. You still have a shot at AOA I think. Not exactly sure how all that stuff works.

 

[underdog427]

I'm strictly considering IM.

 

[notbobtrustme]

IM is a great specialty since there are (literally) dozens of great programs that will match you into any fellowship that you want and you don't need stellar scores to get in. If you wanted to train at MGH/Columbia/Johns Hopkins/etc, then you probably were already out of the mix before you even started school.

 

[ar2388]

just do well in 3rd year and chances are no one will care about the preclinical grades

 

[loveoforganic2]

I go to a unranked state school and essentially HP'd all my classes first year except for anatomy, P. Have I basically shot myself in the foot in trying to get into a "top tier" academic institution from my performance this year, or can I rebound second year with a good Step 1 score. I feel like AOA is out of the running from my performance first year. Thanks for some words of advice in advance.

I'm a 2nd year at your school. I agree that AOA probably won't happen (junior AOA anyway, but we do get senior AOA awarded in time for ERAS and maybe that would still be a possibility). I'll let people with more knowledge answer your main question, but somewhat relevant - I've heard UAB has a more or less top tier IM program that's not as competitive as other upper tier programs due to location. Based on our past match lists, we send plenty of students there

 

[evilbooyaa]

I'm strictly considering IM.

Are you at an allopathic MD school?

If so, then every IM residency program is open to you. Obviously not "likely" but definitely "open". Better if you get AOA.

 

[SilverCat]

IM is a great specialty since there are (literally) dozens of great programs that will match you into any fellowship that you want and you don't need stellar scores to get in. If you wanted to train at MGH/Columbia/Johns Hopkins/etc, then you probably were already out of the mix before you even started school.

Wait, what? How is he 'already out of the mix' for top tier programs before school? That doesn't make sense. Granted, I know it's more difficult to match top IM programs, but not impossible, coming from an unranked school.

 

[534455]

Does HP stand for 'hardly passed' at your school?

Back in the old days we would call this a Freudian slip.
There's alot of truth to your comment/question.

Out of the mouth of babes

 

[kwel]

Wait, what? How is he 'already out of the mix' for top tier programs before school? That doesn't make sense. Granted, I know it's more difficult to match top IM programs, but not impossible, coming from an unranked school.

Pedigree matters a great deal for the tippity-top Ivy League residencies. Obviously pedigree matters less in IM than in more competitive fields, but at the top notch residencies it still matters. If you go to an unranked school it's a very steep uphill battle (unfortunately).

 

[SilverCat]

Pedigree matters a great deal for the tippity-top Ivy League residencies. Obviously pedigree matters less in IM than in more competitive fields, but at the top notch residencies it still matters. If you go to an unranked school it's a very steep uphill battle (unfortunately).

Day gone. I'm going to an unranked school, and had dreamed of returning to do an IM residency at my undergrad's hospital-- which ranks in the top 3 with regards to med schools. But I see that they have never taken a student from my school. There goes that dream.🙁

 

[alpinism]

Day gone. I'm going to an unranked school, and had dreamed of returning to do an IM residency at my undergrad's hospital-- which ranks in the top 3 with regards to med schools. But I see that they have never taken a student from my school. There goes that dream.🙁

Work hard in med school and you should have a solid shot at some great IM programs in the area like Case, Umich, and Pitt.

 

[underdog427]

Ties to a top 10 undergrad school could help out potentially couldn't it? Shows that you are familiar with the institution and especially if you worked with doctors from that institution?

 

[rocketbooster]

Ties to a top 10 undergrad school could help out potentially couldn't it? Shows that you are familiar with the institution and especially if you worked with doctors from that institution?

hmm I doubt it. Don't think anyone cares about undergrad period at this point.

 

[SilverCat]

hmm I doubt it. Don't think anyone cares about undergrad period at this point.

I also doubt it. They'd probably just take one look at the name of my med school, ignore the rest, and throw out my app. I don't even think I'd have a chance to do a fellowship there, as only top tier med students are listed as fellows. Not even AOA, 260+ Step scores, top rank in class, great research would be enough to overcome that.

If you mess up once, you don't get a second chance.

 

[underdog427]

I sense a little sarcasm

 

[Daodejing]

I also doubt it. They'd probably just take one look at the name of my med school, ignore the rest, and throw out my app. I don't even think I'd have a chance to do a fellowship there, as only top tier med students are listed as fellows. Not even AOA, 260+ Step scores, top rank in class, great research would be enough to overcome that.

If you mess up once, you don't get a second chance.

Let's not generalize here. No one is saying that you nor anyone who goes to an unranked school does not/will not match to a top-tier residency. Yes, it is a steep climb, but not insurmountable. A 4th year I know of graduated from an unranked state school and matched to IM at MGH. Yes, he had stellar everything and was an MD/PhD. n=1, but I'm sure he's not the only one - obviously it isn't impossible. If you have stellar credentials, as in the bolded above, they simply wouldn't ignore it and throw your app away. An unranked school does not mar your app like an IA does on your AMCAS. Have a little faith in yourself, and don't enter med school psyching yourself out. Now that is something that will close doors.

Edit: if your post was sarcasm, then consider me fooled. Online sarcasm is hard to note lol.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I also doubt it. They'd probably just take one look at the name of my med school, ignore the rest, and throw out my app. I don't even think I'd have a chance to do a fellowship there, as only top tier med students are listed as fellows. Not even AOA, 260+ Step scores, top rank in class, great research would be enough to overcome that.

If you mess up once, you don't get a second chance.

As long as you got a US MD school, the bolded statements are blatantly incorrect.

 

[adenocard]

I also doubt it. They'd probably just take one look at the name of my med school, ignore the rest, and throw out my app. I don't even think I'd have a chance to do a fellowship there, as only top tier med students are listed as fellows. Not even AOA, 260+ Step scores, top rank in class, great research would be enough to overcome that.

If you mess up once, you don't get a second chance.

As stated above, this is absolutely false.

Penn State (unranked) matched 5 Derm, 4 Ortho, 3 ENT, and the less competitive specialty matches had places like Hopkins, Baylor, Mass General, etc., this past year.

 

[SilverCat]

Strange as it may seem, I'm not being sarcastic. I was just really disheartened after reading the resident roster list from my alma mater, and seeing only people from top tier institutions. No list contained a name from my school. I just get the feeling that, even with top scores, etc, if someone from a top school has slightly lower stats, they'll take that person because they've taken people from that school before, and pedigree will make up for the small stats difference.

So basically, if I even want to be considered, I'd have to be among the top med students in the country-- for example, where most people being interviewed will need a 240-250 score, I'd need a 260-270.

I know I'm getting way ahead of myself. I'll just try my best, but be aware that I most likely will not make it back to this hospital. It's just the reality of the situation.

 

[kwel]

I also doubt it. They'd probably just take one look at the name of my med school, ignore the rest, and throw out my app. I don't even think I'd have a chance to do a fellowship there, as only top tier med students are listed as fellows. Not even AOA, 260+ Step scores, top rank in class, great research would be enough to overcome that.

If you mess up once, you don't get a second chance.

Definitely not true. Fellowship has a lot less to do with your med school reputation and a lot more to do with strength of residency and WHO you know. I know getting into a top tier residency might be a struggle in your position, but as long as you get into a strong program (even if middle tier) you'll have a shot at lots of top fellowships

 

[Wordead]

As long as you got a US MD school, the bolded statements are blatantly incorrect.

As stated above, this is absolutely false.

Penn State (unranked) matched 5 Derm, 4 Ortho, 3 ENT, and the less competitive specialty matches had places like Hopkins, Baylor, Mass General, etc., this past year.

She's at a DO school.

You're probably right that a top tier residency is going to be out of your reach unless you've made some influential friends while there. But you can bust your hump, get into a good residency, and still do fellowship there.

 

[SilverCat]

She's at a DO school.

You're probably right that a top tier residency is going to be out of your reach unless you've made some influential friends while there. But you can bust your hump, get into a good residency, and still do fellowship there.

No, I'm going to a low tier MD school. Still, it's just as hard to get in there; even looking into my fellowship of interest--infectious disease--I don't see anyone from a non-top 20 med school.

 

[notbobtrustme]

No, I'm going to a low tier MD school. Still, it's just as hard to get in there; even looking into my fellowship of interest--infectious disease--I don't see anyone from a non-top 20 med school.

sure, but those tops spots are more coveted for research more than anything else. Many of those people who pursue fellowships at top tier institutions want to be research leaders. If your goal is to become a tenured research, then you should pursue those fellowships. Otherwise, there are still dozens of great fellowship in whatever field you want to be in that will train you extremely well.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Strange as it may seem, I'm not being sarcastic. I was just really disheartened after reading the resident roster list from my alma mater, and seeing only people from top tier institutions. No list contained a name from my school. I just get the feeling that, even with top scores, etc, if someone from a top school has slightly lower stats, they'll take that person because they've taken people from that school before, and pedigree will make up for the small stats difference.

So basically, if I even want to be considered, I'd have to be among the top med students in the country-- for example, where most people being interviewed will need a 240-250 score, I'd need a 260-270.

I know I'm getting way ahead of myself. I'll just try my best, but be aware that I most likely will not make it back to this hospital. It's just the reality of the situation.

Pre-med/Incoming MS0.

Relax. You don't know what's up yet.

 

[SquatOrRot]

Pre-med/Incoming MS0.

Relax. You don't know what's up yet.

Maybe that's why they're asking? Or are people not allowed to do that on a site dedicated to answering questions about careers in medicine...

-Just saying

 

[loveoforganic2]

Maybe that's why they're asking? Or are people not allowed to do that on a site dedicated to answering questions about careers in medicine...

-Just saying

They're asserting an opinion, not asking

 

[evilbooyaa]

Maybe that's why they're asking? Or are people not allowed to do that on a site dedicated to answering questions about careers in medicine...

-Just saying

They've asked their question in a leading fashion. Multiple, MULTIPLE people who are actually in medical school and know what's going on have answered their question (going against their leading ways). They continue to believe something that is incorrect.