Preliminary Programs

[T2 FLAIR]

---

Members don't see this ad.

To the Neurology residents who check this forum:

I'd love to hear from anyone willing to share their experiences about their preliminary medicine program. I am not interested in which is the most "prestigious"; I just want to know what you liked about your program and what you didn't like. Do you feel it adequately prepared you for the rest of your residency? Too busy? Enough teaching opportunities? Good facilities?

I applied to a mix of programs that are categorical, advanced but linked to a prelim, and programs with no link whatsoever to a prelim. I would love to hear about any type of preliminary program (i.e. prelims that are linked or that stand alone). We've all done a lot of research and talked to residents, but I'm sure there are many programs out there a lot of us would love to hear more about.

Thanks again to anyone willing to take a few minutes to share their thoughts on their preliminary program.

 

[Neurologee]

Ok, I'll bite. I did my preliminary year at Penn State University in Hershey. It is "informally" linked to the Neurology program. It was a tough year, but I knew that going into it -- actually, the Internal Medicine attendings told me I could find an easier program if I wanted to ... My goal was a solid year of Medicine training, since it is the only training we get for the rest of our careers as Neurologists, and if you think about it, many of our inpatients are really complicated medicine patients (i.e., stroke patients who have pre-existing Diabetes, Hypertension, Hyperlipidemia, Cardiac Diease, etc).
I was concerned when it came time to take Step III at the end of intern year that I would not do as well as residents who had more time to read in "cush" programs, but as it turns out, once I sat to study, I had actually learned quite a bit of the material just from taking care of the patients day in and day out ... this may be individual, though -- I have noticed that I learn best from patients vs. books.

The pros were numerous - I became good friends with many of the categorical medicine residents and still hang out with them professionally and socially (it is always nice to run "general medicine" things by them that I am not comfortable with). I also grew to know "the system" of this particular hospital well (and as one of the attendings here likes to say, the best residents are not necessarily those with the highest test scores, but rather the ones who know how to get things done for the patient most efficiently).
There were certainly cons - I was worked quite hard, sometimes perhaps too hard - though all residents think this at one time or another I bet... After my medicine year, however, the department decreased the number of patients per team, and I have never seen the teams get too large since -- so this may not be a relevant complaint any longer. I also did several months of general inpatient medicine - almost 6 -- and this may be a negative to some. In my case, I really wanted to nail down the bread and butter (vs electives in subspecialties like GI or Pulmonary), so I did not mind this schedule.

All in all, I am not a person who loves constant change (especially when it involves packing and moving), so if I had it to do over again, I would again do my intern year at the same program as my Neurology Residency.
Also, when interviewing, I would advise that you try your best to get an idea of how the match works at those schools with "informal" arrangements with Internal Medicine - I remember this was easier said than done at some schools - though it seems like more work up front, it may mean that the Medicine program is more selective and thus a strong program, which will be a "pro" for you in the long run if you end up at such a place ... and remember, when it comes time to compile your rank list, you can pair prelims with Neurology programs such that if you don't get them both, they move down your rank list (which removes some of the risk).

Good luck ...

 

[T2 FLAIR]

and remember, when it comes time to compile your rank list, you can pair prelims with Neurology programs such that if you don't get them both, they move down your rank list (which removes some of the risk).

Thanks for a great post, Neurologee! That information was really helpful! And I was not aware that you can prioritize programs on the rank list in that way.

👍👍

 

[Rogue Synapse]

Oh wow, I didn't realize you could do that either. That makes a world of difference to me because I'm couples matching and would rather move down my rank list than both get our #1s but have to spend a year apart due to scrambling a prelim.

 

[Rogue Synapse]

you can pair prelims with Neurology programs such that if you don't get them both, they move down your rank list (which removes some of the risk).

I have been combing through the NRMP website trying to find out how to do this and haven't found anything about this possibility. Are you sure?

 

[Adalimumab]

I have been combing through the NRMP website trying to find out how to do this and haven't found anything about this possibility. Are you sure?

I would love it, if it was the case! But, unfortunately, there is not such an option! I mean if you pair an advanced neurology program (e.g. N1) with a supplementary rank order list (e.g. P1-P7), you can potentially end up with matching to N1 program, but none of preliminary programs!

 

[Rogue Synapse]

If the algorithm is unable to match the applicant to a first-year program, the match to the advanced program still holds, and the applicant will have to seek a PGY-1 position after the Match.

Yeah, it looks like that's too good to be true. You're stuck with the prelims (or lack thereof) on each supplemental list if you happen to match at an advanced on your primary list.

 

[95439]

Yeah, it looks like that's too good to be true. You're stuck with the prelims (or lack thereof) on each supplemental list if you happen to match at an advanced on your primary list.

What if you want to pair a prelim program that is linked to a neuro program (that's say, your 5th choice) to your first choice neuro program. For example (just an example), if I applied to Temple and they had a prelim IM program that 'basically is guaranteed if you match to the neuro program', but I only wanted to go there for the prelim program, and was going to rank, oh say, Drexel as my top neuro program (but didn't want to go to their prelim program). Is it possible to do the prelim year at Temple and the 3 years of neuro at Drexel? How would I rank this on the NRMP site? Sorry if this is tangential but I've been wondering for awhile now...

 

[Adalimumab]

What if you want to pair a prelim program that is linked to a neuro program (that's say, your 5th choice) to your first choice neuro program. For example (just an example), if I applied to Temple and they had a prelim IM program that 'basically is guaranteed if you match to the neuro program', but I only wanted to go there for the prelim program, and was going to rank, oh say, Drexel as my top neuro program (but didn't want to go to their prelim program). Is it possible to do the prelim year at Temple and the 3 years of neuro at Drexel? How would I rank this on the NRMP site? Sorry if this is tangential but I've been wondering for awhile now...

You CAN'T do this. It is impossible to pair a prelim program that is linked to a particular neuro program (these prelim programs are usually called preliminary/neuro in R3) to another neuro program. Actually I tried to do this, but R3 gave the " Invalid Program Code (Joint A/P) " error.

 

[Rogue Synapse]

I can second this. Those "linked" prelims truly are linked, and you can't use them for other programs. I got the same error when I tried to use a Tufts linked prelim for BIDMC.

BIDMC itself has "linked" prelims ("Joint med/neuro" or some such thing) with a separate program code, but their medicine program declined to invite me for an interview and the neuro program says they have nothing to do with the medicine program. I'm still putting that joint program on my supplemental list for BIDMC and I'll see what happens, but I wouldn't be able to use that code e.g. at Partners or BU.

 

[buckley]

You CAN'T do this. It is impossible to pair a prelim program that is linked to a particular neuro program (these prelim programs are usually called preliminary/neuro in R3) to another neuro program. Actually I tried to do this, but R3 gave the " Invalid Program Code (Joint A/P) " error.

this is a case-to-case issue. some programs will let you do it and some will not.