Prematch Vs Match Question ?

[beejan]

I just have a generic question,
If an applicant accepts a prematch offer at a program then i know he cannot participate in the main Match but after accepting the prematch offer, if he still goes and Participate in the NRMP Match for a better program, Can that be done?
Is there any Penalty for that or Can the program who offered prematch Can find out about that? or what are the concenquences of accepting prematch and also participating in the NRMP Main Match?
Any opinion or someone who has been through this before. Would really appreciate your response.

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[Esprit00]

Is prematching even possible anymore? I thought they got rid of that. =/.

 

[Winged Scapula]

1) The NRMP now has an "all - in" rule. That means programs that participate in the match must put all of their available positions into the match. Exceptions are available for off cycle positions starting before February 1. Programs that do not wish to participate in the NRMP may still offer positions.

2) This forum is for posting of available or positions needed; the ERAS/NRMP forum is where this question should be posted. I'll move it for the OP.

 

[MadHopsMD]

No it cannot be done. if you accept prematch, than you HAVE to withdraw from the MATCH. Make sure you sign the paper first. Not sure about the penatly. but i think it will be that you lose both offers, but i doubt it is possible. The program stills you are in the match. no way of avoiding it.

 

[IMPD]

I just have a generic question,
If an applicant accepts a prematch offer at a program then i know he cannot participate in the main Match but after accepting the prematch offer, if he still goes and Participate in the NRMP Match for a better program, Can that be done?
Is there any Penalty for that or Can the program who offered prematch Can find out about that? or what are the concenquences of accepting prematch and also participating in the NRMP Main Match?
Any opinion or someone who has been through this before. Would really appreciate your response.

Um, yes, they can find out about it when you match somewhere. I'm sure they'd be calling up your "new" program and explaining how they have a contract with your signature on it. Not. Good.

These sorts of violations may be arguable in some fantasy-land lawyer-world, but in our world, this **** will destroy your reputation. Don't do it.

 

[Booster]

so programs can offer you a position as long as you withdraw from the match??? do they normally do this on interview day or afterwards?

 

[gutonc]

so programs can offer you a position as long as you withdraw from the match??? do they normally do this on interview day or afterwards?

Only programs that are "all out" can do this. If they have any spots in the match, all of their spots must be in the Match. If you're at a program offering pre-match spots, you'll know before you go.

 

[IMPD]

so programs can offer you a position as long as you withdraw from the match??? do they normally do this on interview day or afterwards?

Correct. Normally done on interview day or shortly thereafter. It's a contract, not just a verbal offer. Programs that do this are taking ALL of their positions outside the Match and should be very upfront and transparent about being out of the Match. I'm not sure if there are solid numbers of how many programs are doing this. The Program Coordinator can answer your questions much more specifically and accurately than we can, obviously.

 

[jklmn]

Okay, here's a related scenario that I need to understand; NRMP's policy document is very confusing, and I need clarification: my primary question is: is any part of this a violation of the NRMP's policies?

Situation:
- applicant enrolls in NRMP for fellowship application
- applicant interviews at a fellowship program he/she decides is his/her #1 choice
- applicant sends "thank you" letter to the fellowship PD, and in that correspondence, applicant explicitly tells the PD, "you are my #1 choice; i am ranking you #1."
- shortly thereafter, fellowship PD contacts applicant to discuss further; in discussion, PD expresses interest in applicant as his/her top fellowship candidate. PD offers applicant the fellowship position outside of the match, but specifies to applicant that in order to do so, applicant must withdraw from the NRMP match process.
- applicant verbally accepts offer for the fellowship position.
- PD emails applicant with "as per our discussion...." --offer for the fellowship position; "please reply to this email to let me know if you accept...."
- applicant emails PD back and again accepts the position via email.
- applicant withdraws from NRMP match process.
- Fellowship PD sends applicant contract to sign for fellowship position.

Anything wrong with the above events? If not, how could this be resolved legitimately? Just need to ensure both applicant and program PD are compliant with all the rules, so all goes smoothly.

 

[gutonc]

Okay, here's a related scenario that I need to understand; NRMP's policy document is very confusing, and I need clarification: my primary question is: is any part of this a violation of the NRMP's policies?

Situation:
- applicant enrolls in NRMP for fellowship application
- applicant interviews at a fellowship program he/she decides is his/her #1 choice
- applicant sends "thank you" letter to the fellowship PD, and in that correspondence, applicant explicitly tells the PD, "you are my #1 choice; i am ranking you #1."
- shortly thereafter, fellowship PD contacts applicant to discuss further; in discussion, PD expresses interest in applicant as his/her top fellowship candidate. PD offers applicant the fellowship position outside of the match, but specifies to applicant that in order to do so, applicant must withdraw from the NRMP match process.
- applicant verbally accepts offer for the fellowship position.
- PD emails applicant with "as per our discussion...." --offer for the fellowship position; "please reply to this email to let me know if you accept...."
- applicant emails PD back and again accepts the position via email.
- applicant withdraws from NRMP match process.
- Fellowship PD sends applicant contract to sign for fellowship position.

Anything wrong with the above events? If not, how could this be resolved legitimately? Just need to ensure both applicant and program PD are compliant with all the rules, so all goes smoothly.

Nope, that's totes legit. Fellowships are not required to be "all in" and the scenario you describe is a typical pre-match. The only thing you did "wrong" here is to withdraw from NRMP before getting your signed contract in hand. But whatever...there's no Match violation here.

 

[jklmn]

Thanks so much--this is reassurring and along the lines of what I suspected.

Actually, the applicant has not removed his/herself from the NRMP yet (that part was hypothetical). I threw that in there assuming it had to be done.

Interestingly, a faculty person who has many years of fellowship match experience told the applicant that a match violation did occur, but I've been struggling ever since to determine what it was....?

Anyway, assuming nothing actually was done wrong, what happens if that faculty person--or anyone else--reports either party to the NRMP? I assume an investigation would take place....? As you might imagine, said applicant is highly stressed out about things now and scared about losing his/her fellowship spot/eligibility.

 

[Law2Doc]

Thanks so much--this is reassurring and along the lines of what I suspected.

Actually, the applicant has not removed his/herself from the NRMP yet (that part was hypothetical). I threw that in there assuming it had to be done.

Interestingly, a faculty person who has many years of fellowship match experience told the applicant that a match violation did occur, but I've been struggling ever since to determine what it was....?

Anyway, assuming nothing actually was done wrong, what happens if that faculty person--or anyone else--reports either party to the NRMP? I assume an investigation would take place....? As you might imagine, said applicant is highly stressed out about things now and scared about losing his/her fellowship spot/eligibility.

Thanks so much--this is reassurring and along the lines of what I suspected.

Actually, the applicant has not removed his/herself from the NRMP yet (that part was hypothetical). I threw that in there assuming it had to be done.

Interestingly, a faculty person who has many years of fellowship match experience told the applicant that a match violation did occur, but I've been struggling ever since to determine what it was....?

Anyway, assuming nothing actually was done wrong, what happens if that faculty person--or anyone else--reports either party to the NRMP? I assume an investigation would take place....? As you might imagine, said applicant is highly stressed out about things now and scared about losing his/her fellowship spot/eligibility.

Dragging your feet on withdrawing from the match could be a match violation. the day you have a signed contract you have to withdraw.

 

[jklmn]

Contract hasn't been received by applicant yet (waiting to receive it from PD); so will make sure he/she knows to withdraw from match on the day of signing.

What do you think the faculty person (mentioned above--at applicant's home program) was concerned about in terms of a match violation? He/she was adamant that one had occurred when speaking to the applicant.

 

[gutonc]

Interestingly, a faculty person who has many years of fellowship match experience told the applicant that a match violation did occur, but I've been struggling ever since to determine what it was....?

No idea what he was thinking (other than what Law2Doc already mentioned). But I will say that, on a (very) good day, my fellowship PD could (usually) find his ass with both hands. So expecting him to grok the intricacies of the match rules was way too much to ask.