Prereqs VS PhD

[Avrelian]

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I need to get this amount of prereqs to apply:
Biology
A minimum of 8 semester hours, including laboratory.

Chemistry
A minimum of 16 semester hours including laboratories, 8 in inorganic chemistry and 8 in organic chemistry.

English and Composition
A minimum of 6 semester hours in English literature and/or writing.

Physics
A minimum of 8 semester hours, including laboratory.

francly i dont even know what does it mean as in my university we calculated hours per discipline, real 60-minutes hours. I have a MS in biology , graduated in 1999, abroad, so I dont even know yet how far I am from applying to a medical school. I assume at least 2 years.
Meantime, there is a PhD program in Cancer Biology in the university nearby.
I've heard somewhere that if you have a PhD from US school they dont curse your foreign grades, or may be i will have time to do it during pursuing PhD. Besides, I am really interested in cancer biology, especially genetics.
So, what is the best thing to do?

 

[Scottish Chap]

I need to get this amount of prereqs to apply:
Biology
A minimum of 8 semester hours, including laboratory.

Chemistry
A minimum of 16 semester hours including laboratories, 8 in inorganic chemistry and 8 in organic chemistry.

English and Composition
A minimum of 6 semester hours in English literature and/or writing.

Physics
A minimum of 8 semester hours, including laboratory.

francly i dont even know what does it mean as in my university we calculated hours per discipline, real 60-minutes hours. I have a MS in biology , graduated in 1999, abroad, so I dont even know yet how far I am from applying to a medical school. I assume at least 2 years.
Meantime, there is a PhD program in Cancer Biology in the university nearby.
I've heard somewhere that if you have a PhD from US school they dont curse your foreign grades, or may be i will have time to do it during pursuing PhD. Besides, I am really interested in cancer biology, especially genetics.
So, what is the best thing to do?

U.S. medical schools care very much if you have a foreign undergraduate degree - even with a U.S. Ph.D. If you are living in the U.S. now, completing a U.S. Ph.D. is a very bad way to prepare for medical school (most people who take this route, like myself, had no intention of applying to medical school initially); it's best to just get an undergraduate degree from here or at least gain the 60-90 credits that most schools ask for. However, if the above prerequisite courses that you list are completed in the U.S. or Canada and you have at least 60-90 credits from North America, some U.S. schools will review your application with foreign credentials. Contact medical schools of interest now and develop a focused plan if you are serious about it. This way, you'll have a targeted application and you'll avoid any disappointment by believing myths or urban legends posted on SDN or elsewhere. Good luck!

 

[dr.z]

U.S. medical schools care very much if you have a foreign undergraduate degree - even with a U.S. Ph.D. If you are living in the U.S. now, completing a U.S. Ph.D. is a very bad way to prepare for medical school in the U.S. (most people who take this route, like myself, had no intention of applying to medical school initially); it's best to just get an undergraduate degree from here or at least gain the 60-90 credits that most schools ask for. However, if the above prerequisite courses that you list are completed in the U.S. or Canada and you have at least 60-90 credits from North America, some U.S. schools will review your application with foreign credentials. Contact medical school of interest now and develop a focused plan if you are serious about it. This way, you'll have a targeted application and you'll avoid any disappointment by believing myths or urban legends posted on SDN or elsewhere. Good luck!

I agree. U.S. undergraduate education is very heavily weighted for the purpose of medical school admissions.

 

[QofQuimica]

U.S. medical schools care very much if you have a foreign undergraduate degree - even with a U.S. Ph.D. If you are living in the U.S. now, completing a U.S. Ph.D. is a very bad way to prepare for medical school in the U.S. (most people who take this route, like myself, had no intention of applying to medical school initially); it's best to just get an undergraduate degree from here or at least gain the 60-90 credits that most schools ask for. However, if the above prerequisite courses that you list are completed in the U.S. or Canada and you have at least 60-90 credits from North America, some U.S. schools will review your application with foreign credentials. Contact medical school of interest now and develop a focused plan if you are serious about it. This way, you'll have a targeted application and you'll avoid any disappointment by believing myths or urban legends posted on SDN or elsewhere. Good luck!

Right. What he said. ^^^

 

[Avrelian]

Ok guys , and what about Masters in the same field? Finally Cancer Biology is not that alien from medical field..

 

[Scottish Chap]

Ok guys , and what about Masters in the same field? Finally Cancer Biology is not that alien from medical field..

It won't make a difference. Grades earned from a U.S. undergraduate institution as well as the MCAT are key.

 

[1Path]

Ok guys , and what about Masters in the same field? Finally Cancer Biology is not that alien from medical field..

MD/PhD applicants who earn Master's degrees at the school where they are applying MD/PhD, DO receive attention, probably more than someone coming in from the outside. However, like everyone has said, having some undergrad coursework (which could be earned in a Masters' program, but won't count toward your Master's degree) is the best way to go.

 

[RxnMan]

To add my weight,

Grad GPA = little effect on MD school competitiveness.

Ugrad GPA = bigger effect on MD acceptance.

There are some valid reasons for this, but it still stinks. You have to go back and take those courses like a freshman. And it doesn't help that US schools are very slanted towards US citizens.

If your heart is set on the PhD (or similar program,) contact the MD dean at that school and make sure that your plan is feasable first. Even US PhDs -> MDs have trouble applying, as many here on the boards can attest.

 

[frasermed]

Congrats on making the decision to pursue Medical School. However, I wouldn't worry too much about choosing a PhD program to enhance your resume for Medical School. Surely, US schools are tough on students with degrees from countries other than the US (silly and arrogant)--but that's another story.

However, if you are pursing your PhD to become stronger in the field and gain an increased knowledge about something you enjoy then go for it. But believe me the US admin. at Medical schools will see right through your attempt to appeal to them. First thing is first. Appeal to yourself!. Sure you must complete the prereqs, we all have to. But be sure to take a wide range of courses encompassing global ideas. If anything. Take advantage of the fact that you are not from the US and run with it. Focus on how your international experiences will enhance your ability to assist people in getting well and how you will positively affect the field of Cancer Research.

Once Again... Good luck and stay focused.

I need to get this amount of prereqs to apply:
Biology
A minimum of 8 semester hours, including laboratory.

Chemistry
A minimum of 16 semester hours including laboratories, 8 in inorganic chemistry and 8 in organic chemistry.

English and Composition
A minimum of 6 semester hours in English literature and/or writing.

Physics
A minimum of 8 semester hours, including laboratory.

francly i dont even know what does it mean as in my university we calculated hours per discipline, real 60-minutes hours. I have a MS in biology , graduated in 1999, abroad, so I dont even know yet how far I am from applying to a medical school. I assume at least 2 years.
Meantime, there is a PhD program in Cancer Biology in the university nearby.
I've heard somewhere that if you have a PhD from US school they dont curse your foreign grades, or may be i will have time to do it during pursuing PhD. Besides, I am really interested in cancer biology, especially genetics.
So, what is the best thing to do?

 

[1Path]

Even US PhDs -> MDs have trouble applying, as many here on the boards can attest.

Having trouble as measured how exactly? Not trying to pick a fight, but the fact is that I havent' heard of an SDN member with a PhD who didn't get into med school eventually which makes their rate of accceptance pretty much the same as everyone else's. In fact, it appears that their acceptance rate is 100%.

 

[RxnMan]

...I havent' heard of an SDN member with a PhD who didn't get into med school eventually which makes their rate of accceptance pretty much the same as everyone else's. In fact, it appears that their acceptance rate is 100%.

Eventually is the word. I think we have a group of determined posters here (the old SDN selection effect). From reading their posts, I got the impression that it was still a hard sell. To put it another way, getting a PhD is not a back-door to getting a MD.

 

[1Path]

From reading their posts, I got the impression that it was still a hard sell. To put it another way, getting a PhD is not a back-door to getting a MD.

I think getting into med school is a hard sell no matter how you look at it. It's a tough process and I'm not so sure you can really qualtify how hard between different applicants. It's kinda like deciding if 500 degrees is hotter than 1000 degrees, since if it's placed against your skin, hot is hot!

However, I do agree that using a PhD to better ones application to med school is a hair-pulling, bad idea (I personally don't care much for the phrase "back door". If your goal is to get into the building, do you really care which door you came through?)

 

[Scottish Chap]

Having trouble as measured how exactly? Not trying to pick a fight, but the fact is that I havent' heard of an SDN member with a PhD who didn't get into med school eventually which makes their rate of accceptance pretty much the same as everyone else's. In fact, it appears that their acceptance rate is 100%.

You are not doing the OP any favors with incorrect or anecdotal information. This is a special case where matters of opinion matter less than first-hand experience. It's almost as unfair as this crazy rule that almost every U.S. medical school has.

RxnMan is spot on. Having foreign credentials is a problem. A huge problem. A Ph.D. is not a 'shoe-in' or a 'back door' to medical school and embarking on one with such motives will almost certainly lead to failure and frustration. The attributes needed to complete a Ph.D. are totally different from those needed to do well in medical school; it will have little bearing on your success in the medical school admission cycle or in medical school. I have first-hand experience and so have several of my colleagues at this end.

OP: listen to frasermed who is giving excellent, encouraging and correct advice but, again, nothing will beat hearing from schools of interest directly before you go any further.

 

[1Path]

You are not doing the OP any favors with incorrect or anecdotal information. This is a special case where matters of opinion matter less than first-hand experience. It's almost as unfair as this crazy rule that almost every U.S. medical school has.

I'm NOT disagreeing with most of the points in this thread, so I'm not exactly sure WHAT your problem is. You may not agree with what I said but that in NO way makes it incorrect since you've obviously made some assumptions about things I never said.

To the OP: Ignore anyone who tells you not to listen to someone else. Make your own decisions. For the record, I've previously been successful translating a Master's degree program into an MD/PhD acceptance with a problematic undergrad record, so I know a little "somethin, somethin" about turning lemons into lemonade!

 

[Scottish Chap]

I'm NOT disagreeing with most of the points in this thread, so I'm not exactly sure WHAT your problem is. You may not agree with what I said but that in NO way makes it incorrect since you've obviously made some assumptions about things I never said.

To the OP: Ignore anyone who tells you not to listen to someone else. Make your own decisions. For the record, I've previously been successful translating a Master's degree program into an MD/PhD acceptance with a problematic undergrad record, so I know a little "somethin, somethin" about turning lemons into lemonade!

No problem here...and no need to give us your resume (but congrats on your acceptance). For the third time: it's best that the OP deals with schools now so they can tell him/her first-hand what to do with a foreign undergraduate degree which, with all due respect, is what the OP was worried about and not something you should be giving advice on since it's a special problem that you can't (or won't) appreciate. Peace.

 

[Avrelian]

Thank you guys for replying, basically my idea was getting a PhD not to get an entry to medschool, but to use time more efficiently, as I have at least 2 more years to complete prereqs. So I thought may be it would be better to learn something new meantime I am repeating all that what I know already anyways.

 

[RxnMan]

Thank you guys for replying, basically my idea was getting a PhD not to get an entry to medschool, but to use time more efficiently, as I have at least 2 more years to complete prereqs. So I thought may be it would be better to learn something new meantime I am repeating all that what I know already anyways.

If you want to learn something new, then that's different than being efficient with your time. A PhD will most likely cost you ~3 years minimum. Depending on a host of factors (for example, your choice of advisor,) that due to your level of graduate school experience, you can't control, the amount of effort you'll have to put forth for that degree and the hardship you'll go through will vary widely. You may have a good advisor and he'll buy into you becoming a doc and he'll help you 100%. relentless' advisor seems to be this. Other advisors will be absent, or will abuse you for their own gain, only to leave your name off of the final publication of your project.

By comparison, you could have done all of your ugrad pre-reqs, and depending on when you applied, matriculate in three years. Is it scary to put your eggs all in one basket? You bet. But you need you A-game to get yourself a seat.

If you want to learn something new and take the scenic route to MD admissions, then maybe a PhD will be best for you. But there are risks involved in this route that you may not know about. Furthermore, understand that a PhD's not going to make you competitive. Ugrad GPA and MCAT are the only things that can do that.

 

[QofQuimica]

If you want to learn something new, then that's different than being efficient with your time. A PhD will most likely cost you ~3 years minimum. Depending on a host of factors (for example, your choice of advisor,) that due to your level of graduate school experience, you can't control, the amount of effort you'll have to put forth for that degree and the hardship you'll go through will vary widely. You may have a good advisor and he'll buy into you becoming a doc and he'll help you 100%. relentless' advisor seems to be this. Other advisors will be absent, or will abuse you for their own gain, only to leave your name off of the final publication of your project.

By comparison, you could have done all of your ugrad pre-reqs, and depending on when you applied, matriculate in three years. Is it scary to put your eggs all in one basket? You bet. But you need you A-game to get yourself a seat.

If you want to learn something new and take the scenic route to MD admissions, then maybe a PhD will be best for you. But there are risks involved in this route that you may not know about. Furthermore, understand that a PhD's not going to make you competitive. Ugrad GPA and MCAT are the only things that can do that.

Agree. Again, if your main goal is to get into medical school ASAP, do the post bac and forget the PhD.

OP, there is absolutely, positively, NOTHING efficient about doing a PhD. Graduate school is inherently inefficient and involves many turns down wrong paths before you (hopefully) finally find a right one or two that will allow you to produce enough data to graduate. Never, ever use the words "efficient" and "PhD" in the same sentence again, unless you have a "not" in front of that "efficient." 😉

 

[1Path]

Never, ever use the words "efficient" and "PhD" in the same sentence again, unless you have a "not" in front of that "efficient." 😉