Private practice question

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Attending1985

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I had a closed practice for awhile which was so nice. My practice is open again and I’m missing my closed practice.

I work for a healthcare organization so it’s always a push for access.

For those in private practice once you have your established panel is there always a push for new patients so you can stay full or can you slow down?
 
I had a closed practice for awhile which was so nice. My practice is open again and I’m missing my closed practice.

I work for a healthcare organization so it’s always a push for access.

For those in private practice once you have your established panel is there always a push for new patients so you can stay full or can you slow down?

There is always new patients. Some patients stabilize and transition back to PCP. Some will move away. Some stop meds and don’t return for years. You have to replace patients that you lose.
 
There is always new patients. Some patients stabilize and transition back to PCP. Some will move away. Some stop meds and don’t return for years. You have to replace patients that you lose.

Yes, very much this. More useful to think of periods of a high barrier to entry and periods of a lower barrier to entry. When I came quite full, I will take new patients by referral only or as a favor to a colleague. When I am less full, I am way more open to all corners.

EDIT: I tell people yes or no, my experience with trying a waiting list was not positive.
 
Yes you always have to take new patients. For me, about 2-4 patients a month on average is probably a good replacement rate.

I would imagine therapy heavy practices may need less new patients and those who do one time consultations need more.
 
For those who take insurance, how quickly are patients finding you? Meaning if I weren't doing a lot of self marketing or seo, could I reasonably anticipate filling up simply by way of being on various insurance panels?
 
Maybe I should clarify for those working in large metros
 
For those in an average sized private practice, approximately how much is an average yearly salary (after expenses, before taxes)? An average range? Both for a practice that accepts insurance and a cash only?
 
For those who take insurance, how quickly are patients finding you? Meaning if I weren't doing a lot of self marketing or seo, could I reasonably anticipate filling up simply by way of being on various insurance panels?
Virtual only, insurance practice, slow AF. I think the big dogs, talkiatry etc, are taking a good chunk of the clientelle.
 
For those who take insurance, how quickly are patients finding you? Meaning if I weren't doing a lot of self marketing or seo, could I reasonably anticipate filling up simply by way of being on various insurance panels?

I like to think about, how would you find a doctor if you needed one? Would you ask your PCP? Would you google "X near X town"? Would you look at your insurances website and see who was in network near you? Would you be discharged from an IOP and given a list of local practices to schedule with or be on the list that the social worker contacts to set up aftercare? Especially if you have no presence at all in the area initially, you have to make sure you're hitting all the avenues for people to know you even exist. I can really want to buy a BMW and the new BMW dealership that just opened up might really want to sell me one but unless we cross paths, I'll never end up buying that product I wanted.

People make this mistake of thinking that just because they setup a practice and get in network with a couple insurances, patients are going to start flocking to them but unless you're part of big healthcare system, you aren't going to get a lot of automatic referrals your way.

Virtual only, insurance practice, slow AF. I think the big dogs, talkiatry etc, are taking a good chunk of the clientelle.

I could certainly see new all virtual practices being extremely slow to fill. You're competing with literally every other virtual competitor nationwide. Having in person availability to at least some extent keeps your competition more local unless you already have an established presence and referral pattern.
 
I like to think about, how would you find a doctor if you needed one? Would you ask your PCP? Would you google "X near X town"? Would you look at your insurances website and see who was in network near you? Would you be discharged from an IOP and given a list of local practices to schedule with or be on the list that the social worker contacts to set up aftercare? Especially if you have no presence at all in the area initially, you have to make sure you're hitting all the avenues for people to know you even exist. I can really want to buy a BMW and the new BMW dealership that just opened up might really want to sell me one but unless we cross paths, I'll never end up buying that product I wanted.

People make this mistake of thinking that just because they setup a practice and get in network with a couple insurances, patients are going to start flocking to them but unless you're part of big healthcare system, you aren't going to get a lot of automatic referrals your way.



I could certainly see new all virtual practices being extremely slow to fill. You're competing with literally every other virtual competitor nationwide. Having in person availability to at least some extent keeps your competition more local unless you already have an established presence and referral pattern.
Agreed, thankfully this is only a side gig or I'd go hungry.
 
For those who take insurance, how quickly are patients finding you? Meaning if I weren't doing a lot of self marketing or seo, could I reasonably anticipate filling up simply by way of being on various insurance panels?
I do not advertise at all. I take one insurance. I am almost exclusively virtual. I'm in the Mid-Atlantic region in a very large city with severe market saturation. I did 50 insurance-based consultations last year that were just from patients finding me on their insurance panel list. And additional 20 were referrals from colleagues and private pay.

I'm working ~10 hours per week and my busy weeks are 15. 4-6 hours per week of therapy. I started in September 2023 with ~20 patients and am at ~100 now.

Now that there's some word of mouth / people think of me as a - well, whatever it is that they think of me - guy, there's a steady 1-3 consultations a week coming in. That just took two years of doing decent medicine and networking with therapists that reached out to me via cold emails.
 
I do not advertise at all. I take one insurance. I am almost exclusively virtual. I'm in the Mid-Atlantic region in a very large city with severe market saturation. I did 50 insurance-based consultations last year that were just from patients finding me on their insurance panel list. And additional 20 were referrals from colleagues and private pay.

I'm working ~10 hours per week and my busy weeks are 15. 4-6 hours per week of therapy. I started in September 2023 with ~20 patients and am at ~100 now.

Now that there's some word of mouth / people think of me as a - well, whatever it is that they think of me - guy, there's a steady 1-3 consultations a week coming in. That just took two years of doing decent medicine and networking with therapists that reached out to me via cold emails.
Thats great. What do you think the difference is between your experience and others who feel simply being on an insurance panel isnt enough to fill?
 
Thats great. What do you think the difference is between your experience and others who feel simply being on an insurance panel isnt enough to fill?

The great thing about psychiatry is that such a 10 hour practice is possible. Many fields don’t have that option.

The problem with this scenario is if psychiatrists want a 30-50 hour practice. Closing in on 2 years for about 10 hours means a full-time practice in this location with this advertising is almost impossible and not worthwhile financially (takes too long to reach the desired pay). The more hours you work, the harder it is to remain full. You need a larger influx of new patients to just maintain. A “full” 30 hour/week med management practice will need about 3 evals/week to not shrink, much less grow.
 
Yes, it only works for me because I don't want to work more than I do.

If I did little things like participate in any of the LISTSERVs I am on, went to the networking events from local organizations, and reached out retiring psychiatrists then I would probably be sitting on 20-30 hours per week.

I also am very selective on self-referrals for therapy, preferring to refer out and only take on people who were referred to me for therapy by someone who knows my therapy style. If I were less selective and agreed to do therapy with everyone who asks, I would be sitting at 20+ with just my current panel.

I really dropped the ball about a year ago. There was this psychiatrist who had fallen ill and more than one person suggested I reach out to him to see about taking over some of his panel. He also took only the insurance I accept. He died a few months after people suggested I contact him and I didn't. I've had a handful of his patients find me organically, but I probably could have ended up with a hundred or more from his practice of 700+. The ones who came to me said that the doctor died without any communication, they found out because he wasn't at the appointment they had scheduled or because they read his obituary in the newspaper.

This is to say, rubbing elbows with the psychiatrists over 80 with recent health challenges might be a decent strategy to grow without "advertising" formally. You might end up with illegible hand-written records and regimens that sound a couple decades off.


As an example, this week I worked 13.5 hours and billed $4,126. I have been averaging 95% collection over the past 12 months, so let's call it $3,919.7. That comes out to $290 per hour, though one of those hours was pro-bono. Ignore that hour and it's $313.57 per hour.

Last week I worked 6.25 hours and billed 2773. Assuming 95%, that is $2,634.35 or $421/hour. Again, there was a pro-bono hour.

Over the two weeks it works out to $331/hour. You can see how the variable pay might really bother some people, and motivate some people to work more hours to make more money.

I think I've mentioned this elsewhere, but any more than this and I would like to hire some office manager or something. The problem is paying them enough that they would want to take the job / you might as well be there 32+ hours a week and bring in over $so they can also be making full time money. Paying out the $80k+ that would be expected for someone of that role (including benefits) in this region of the country would make me want to work more to cover that increased overhead.

I'd rather just work the 10-15 hours and figure it out myself with low overhead. It's a trade-off. Instead of working hard now to fat fire or something I'm just planning to always work 10-20 hours. Maybe I'll change my mind when my kids are in school and being home becomes boring.
 
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For those in an average sized private practice, approximately how much is an average yearly salary (after expenses, before taxes)? An average range? Both for a practice that accepts insurance and a cash only?

Part of a group PP, primarily taking insurance. Yearly salary isn't a great variable in PP because you can (usually) choose how much you work, so I think $/hr is a better number to look at...or even $/patient. I think prior to taxes probably in the ballpark of $300/hr after overhead expenses. This is with 30 min follow-ups, 90 min news. I'm CAP + young adults. I see patients for a bit under 30 hrs/week.

I'm nearing the end of year 4 since I started, and I consistently have 2 new patients/week. I actually like how this breaks up my week and keeps things interesting, not sure I'd ever want to completely stop taking new patients.
 
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