Program banning all personal travel due to COVID

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Program told us that we are not allowed to travel without approval from PD due to the virus; domestic international, doesn't matter; with threat of punitive action. Are they legally allowed to enforce this?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Read your contract. That will answer your question.

Or, if you think that your reason for domestic travel is so important in the middle of a global pandemic, ask your PD for approval.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

No. They can ban you from business related travel, but they can't stop you from traveling on your personal time.

However: If you do travel on your personal time, and then get quarantined upon your return, then you could be in trouble - because you can't work when scheduled.

 

[StIGMA]

They can’t ban personal travel but they can stipulate quarantine/time away from patients on return (per new institutional policies) that is unpaid and doesn’t count toward residency requirements. My GME office is doing this for certain types of travel.

 

[rokshana]

No. They can ban you from business related travel, but they can't stop you from traveling on your personal time.

However: If you do travel on your personal time, and then get quarantined upon your return, then you could be in trouble - because you can't work when scheduled.

Why not? There are programs that can keep you from smoking tobacco on your off hours... they can randomly test you for nicotine metabolites and you can be dismissed from the residency, so why can’t they stipulate something like this?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Why not? There are programs that can keep you from smoking tobacco on your off hours... they can randomly test you for nicotine metabolites and you can be dismissed from the residency, so why can’t they stipulate something like this?

Good question. And honestly I'm out of my depth here. My understanding is that it's an employment law issue. I could be very wrong. Perhaps someone here who knows better can help.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Why not? There are programs that can keep you from smoking tobacco on your off hours... they can randomly test you for nicotine metabolites and you can be dismissed from the residency, so why can’t they stipulate something like this?

I agree I’d read the contract. When you onboard to one of those hospitals you sign a statement saying that you agree to their no nicotine policy. I doubt you signed such a policy for personal travel unless it’s buried in the employee handbook somewhere (which is how these GME contracts usually go...you sign a piece of paper with your salary and dates on it saying you agree to their employee handbook and reference document xxx for full details).

I do doubt they can technically ban you from personal domestic travel (and what even constitutes as travel? Out of city? Out of state? A few states over?). What they could do if they knew about it ahead of time is just pull their approval for your vacation time but what a loser move. You could also just go and not post it all over Facebook/instagram/not tell anyone. How would they prove you did it unless someone followed you or something?

What they could do though if you violate it is say you were unprofessional or some crap and put it in your file.

 

[deleted480308]

They can always hurt you more as a resident. That statement is completely separate from the fact that I think it's bull#$%^ and of questionable legality to begin with

 

[Crabbygas]

I wouldn't fly anywhere right now unless you're OK with potentially being stuck there for a while if the craziness results in airline shutdown. In a not totally unrelated observation the MGM Casino in Las Vegas is closing. That has to be some sort of sign of the apocalypse.

 

[LucidSplash]

If you’ve been watching what’s been going on at the airports I wouldn’t argue with the policy. People are going to start getting stranded places soon.

If you travel to a high-risk area my employer is mandating 14-day quarantine (unpaid). You can use vacation time if you have it otherwise it will be unpaid furlough. For everyone, docs to cafeteria workers. And since what is a high-risk area can change from one day to the next, I wouldn’t travel. Additionally soon it will likely be all hands on deck if the system gets overwhelmed. Maybe the policy is bull**** but honestly this is a professional choice you should probably already be making on your own.

 

[AMEHigh]

I hope you’re just asking as a hypothetical because if you’re actually planning to travel, big wow. If you have a special circumstance like an ill family member then I’d talk to your director.

As far as legal terms you’d have to look at your contract. My general understanding is that programs can choose to not renew resident contracts yearly for what they deem appropriate as long as it’s not due to being a protected class like race, sexual orientation, etc.

I’m not a resident anymore, but currently all work related travel is banned and any personal travel is highly discouraged and if we do travel we’re supposed to get it approved by a supervisor. If I were a supervisor I’d highly question the judgement of a doctor choosing to travel right now outside of emergencies. Everyone I know at work has cancelled their travel plans, myself included since it’s the right thing to do.

 

[Mass Effect]

Good question. And honestly I'm out of my depth here. My understanding is that it's an employment law issue. I could be very wrong. Perhaps someone here who knows better can help.

Maybe it's one of those employee versus trainee things?

 

[nlax30]

While yes they can’t physically keep you from traveling they can put in place restrictions upon your return if you do travel.

I cancelled a UK trip even before UK was added to the “ban” as i would’ve likely been looking at not being able to return to work for 14days once i returned.

 

[Mass Effect]

I agree I’d read the contract. When you onboard to one of those hospitals you sign a statement saying that you agree to their no nicotine policy. I doubt you signed such a policy for personal travel unless it’s buried in the employee handbook somewhere (which is how these GME contracts usually go...you sign a piece of paper with your salary and dates on it saying you agree to their employee handbook and reference document xxx for full details).

I do doubt they can technically ban you from personal domestic travel (and what even constitutes as travel? Out of city? Out of state? A few states over?). What they could do if they knew about it ahead of time is just pull their approval for your vacation time but what a loser move. You could also just go and not post it all over Facebook/instagram/not tell anyone. How would they prove you did it unless someone followed you or something?

What they could do though if you violate it is say you were unprofessional or some crap and put it in your file.

Unnecessary travel at this moment is (I'll say the word) "unprofessional" in my view. It also shows a lack of judgment. The world is in chaos right now and every specialty should be on standby. If someone is sick, of course go be with them. But traveling for fun or vacation should be a non-starter. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if flights were canceled and/or airline travel came to a halt altogether. The worst thing you can do, as a resident in any field, is have to call your boss to tell them you're stuck at some airport and can't report to work during a pandemic because you just had to go on vacation away from home or you come back and have to go into quarantine for 14 days.

Take a staycation until things settle down.

 

[siliso]

don’t be antisocial right now, do your duty. And if you need threats then even if your program doesn’t fire you, they could issue reprimands or other actions that you may need to explain to medical boards forever.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

So, I'm hearing from other places as well that they are suspending all vacations for residents (and fellows) and ordering them to stop all domestic travel basically outside the city/state. Looks like this is about to get more widespread real quick.

And just to clarify, I wasn't necessarily saying one SHOULD be lying about going on vacation. Just that if one were so inclined to go, they probably can't contractually limit what you do on your personal time unless you agreed to it when you signed your onboarding stuff and there are probably ways you could do this without them finding out. I was planning on traveling out of state within the next month and have obviously cancelled my plans as well voluntarily.

 

[hallowmann]

They aren't cancelling our vacations, but they're basically telling us all to stick around for when things get suddenly worse... which I think is likely

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Interestingly, our hospital emergency event policy does state that all vacations, for all staff, are canceled.

 

[DeucesHigh3]

Interestingly, our hospital emergency event policy does state that all vacations, for all staff, are canceled.

Our vacations aren't cancelled, but those of use who were sent home to be a reserve force are being told not to travel anywhere because it could be any day that we're called back in.

 

[ReviewOfSystems]

Program told us that we are not allowed to travel without approval from PD due to the virus; domestic international, doesn't matter; with threat of punitive action. Are they legally allowed to enforce this?

Where are you going exactly that there will be something worthwhile to do? Everything is CLOSED!