Program Match / Fit

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
N

numbereight

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
104
Reaction score
0
Members do not see this ad.
We keep hearing all this talk about how the most important thing in getting in to a doctoral program is "match", sometimes called "fit". However, most of us have been rejected from a program or two that we feel were excellent matches for.

What the heck is this elusive construct? Surely it's not defined solely as identical research interests of applicant and professor, although this is probably a good part of it. Do you think some programs consider students with specific experiences a good match? Is there some mixing between match and academic credentials? Inquiring minds (or at least I) want to know.

Cheers,
no 8
 
You feel you are an excellent match, but that doesn't mean you necessarily are. It all depends on the professor, the program, and the year. For instance, in the lab that I am in, we do suicide and older adult work. This year, we were looking for an older adult person. If you were a suicide person, you would have applied thinking you were a great match, and you would have been, but not this year. Likewise, perhaps the professors have changed their focus and aren't doing the research they were doing? Perhaps there wasn't enough funding? There are many things that can play a role before we even get to the fact that there is a ton of competition with 10-15 applications for every spot.

I don't mean to be a bummer, but what I am trying to say is that match is still very important, and you may not know if you are a match or not. The best advice I have is speak with the professors before you apply and make sure that you match what they are looking for that year. That doesn't mean that things won't change, perhaps someone doesn't get an internship spot and that makes it so that professor doesn't take a student? Perhaps funding changes? There are a lot of extraneous variables, but that will at least increase your odds. Good luck!
 
thanks irish for your reply. i think thats one great example of how "match" is more complicated than it seems. i guess what i'm trying to say is that the next time someone asks me, "whats the most important factor in getting in to a clincial psychology phd program?", i won't simply say "match" without explaining that it means a lot of different things. i also think it's right on to say that there are variables related to luck and being in the right place at the right time. but since a person can't control them, we just have to focus on what we can control.

when i hired research associates (pre-screened them and presented my choices to my boss, who actually did the hiring) i looked for

1) relevant experience. a minimum of 2 years relevant experience, so the person will have a basic knowledge of the fundamentals, a basic familiarity with the work, and already worked through many of the basic rookie mistakes that i would expect anyone to make.

2) intelligence/success - graduating from a good program, getting good grades, publications. any evidence of outstanding work in any relevant discipline.

3) personality that fits with our lab - this is what i think of when i think of "match". basically, do i think that you will get along with everyone here (professionally). it might be a little bit of "do i like you?" too.

i wonder if others go by a similar basic hierarchy. i guess that in graduate school apps, grades/GRE scores get your foot in the door (good grades are neccessary but not sufficient to get in). but when you have 100 applicants who meet that requirement, what next?
 
I think sometimes it can also have to do with the politics of the game-either you are in or you are out, depending on a range of possibilities besides being a good fit for the program. Maybe you were an excellent fit but so was someone else and they had to flip a coin (not sure if they actually do this but I'm sure they have to make some close decisions). Don't get discouraged-if you feel that you have the right qualifications you are probably heading in the right direction of your goals regardless. 🙂
 
Unfortunately, there is no easy answer. Fit is fluid. You might have been a perfect fit for the labs you applied for...5 years ago. The faculty member might have submitted 5 grants in a drastically different research area from what you targeted with your research statement, and unless they told you, you would never know. There's huge variation even within schools. Even at the same school, you might have faculty who accept people with a strong interest in clinical work, and faculty who would set your application on fire if you so much as mention it. Some people want a lot of past experience in a very narrow area, some want a wide breadth of experience. Some want to see that you have done work in the specific area you applied for, others couldn't care less as long as the experiences you do have are good.

All I can suggest is keep your hopes up, and don't be afraid to talk with faculty about how to improve your application. Its a rough process.
 
I havent started to apply yet, but this is what I have heard from graduate students also and have seen in in professors,i wanted to apply to a lab to be a RA but he wasnt working in the area i was interested in anymore, but he had been the semester before 😕..
As i approach my time to apply in the Fall i think of all of these horrible scenarios of what admission committees would do to my app:
.. spit on it
.. set it on fire
.. write ROFLcopter or LAWL on it and just send it back..
 
twilson said:
As i approach my time to apply in the Fall i think of all of these horrible scenarios of what admission committees would do to my app:
.. spit on it
.. set it on fire
.. write ROFLcopter or LAWL on it and just send it back..
Click to expand...

:laugh: Don't be so hard on yourself!!
 
The worst they'd probably do is throw it out. Not very comforting, but admissions comms are way too busy to write some snarky comment--unless they had some sort of form letter. 😉
 
I think it might be worth getting rejected if it meant getting a letter with a ROFLcopter on it from a distinguished faculty member😉
 
Now it's become my dream to send rejection letters with animated GIFs in them via email if I ever become a professor somewhere.
 
I think a good way to determine if you're really a good fit is to actually go and have a meeting with the professor you're interested in working with; or at least have an e-mail conversation (which is something you might have already done anyway, so moot point).

I recently had a meeting with a researcher who I thought was a great match from his CV and recent grants (and it helped his Web site said where his research was going in the next few years lol), but when I actually sat down to talk with him, realized his work was very, very molecular (pharmacology), and I'm more interested in behavioral pharmacology. Anyway! That would have been a waste of an application. Plus he gave me some researchers in the same program that might be a good fit, so it was a good idea all around. 🙂
 
I know in my case, my research interests cut across three interconnected areas (in terms of fit based on my specific population, influencing factors, and outcomes) which gives me a fairly large number of potential fits, but also, a lot to "check in" about with faculty about what my interests are, why/my experiences, how it connects with their previous work, would it be something they'd be interested in potentially researching with a grad student, etc.
 
glasscandie said:
I think a good way to determine if you're really a good fit is to actually go and have a meeting with the professor you're interested in working with; or at least have an e-mail conversation (which is something you might have already done anyway, so moot point).

I recently had a meeting with a researcher who I thought was a great match from his CV and recent grants (and it helped his Web site said where his research was going in the next few years lol), but when I actually sat down to talk with him, realized his work was very, very molecular (pharmacology), and I'm more interested in behavioral pharmacology. Anyway! That would have been a waste of an application. Plus he gave me some researchers in the same program that might be a good fit, so it was a good idea all around. 🙂
Click to expand...

So it would not be a bad idea to email a professor from a graduate school I'm thinking of applying to to see if I'm a good fit or not? Seems like that could have good or bad results 😕
 
Psychology 76 said:
So it would not be a bad idea to email a professor from a graduate school I'm thinking of applying to to see if I'm a good fit or not? Seems like that could have good or bad results 😕
Click to expand...

In my experience talking with faculty it varies how they view these e-mails. However, even given that, I think they are a good idea (I did them when I applied). They help you ensure that the faculty member is still doing that line of research, that they are accepting that year, and helps them know that you exist. My advisor says she hates the e-mails, but she also tells all of us when she gets an email from a student she thinks may be a good fit, so what does that tell you? They may be an annoyance, but can also make a great impression. I think to make the best impression you want to do more than just ask if they are accepting (several labs, including ours, put this on our website to avoid these questions). If you ask if the prof is accepting (if it isn't on their website) and also ask about the research they are doing and where they are going, it will show that you have done some research and are serious.

Anyway, I hope that answers your question. Long story short, I vote that you should send the e-mails!
 
i agree with irish. i may've mentioned this in the past, but to me the whole thing looks like a bit of a dance, a courtship. it starts with a wink (first email) and if you get a favorable response, you get more and more serious and talk about research. thus, I would say, keep the first email brief and get a gauge on the professor's interest (something I did well). But then, after you get some interest - follow up! (something i did not do so well). anyone have any advice or opinions regarding this, i would like to please hear 'em.

my best advice is to put yourself in the professors' shoes. pretend you're a professor, trying to assemble the best research team possible. a group that's smart, informed, diligent, personable, helpful, works well together (at least thats what i want i guess 🙂. you want someone who does great work for you but also has their own interests which expand yours. someone sends you an email to join your team. what would impress you? go for that i think. if you dont have the experience to judge this (most 22 y/o's do not), find a friendly professor and ask em.
 
Emailing didn't work for me. I basically got the general response of "Thank you for your interest in my research, I look forward to seeing your application." Incidentally, all of the places I got interviews at were ones I had not emailed, haha.

Now, I'm not saying it can't be beneficial. It's just that the exchange probably needs to have more substance beyond "Are you taking students for next fall?" "Yes."
 
twilson said:
I havent started to apply yet, but this is what I have heard from graduate students also and have seen in in professors,i wanted to apply to a lab to be a RA but he wasnt working in the area i was interested in anymore, but he had been the semester before 😕..
As i approach my time to apply in the Fall i think of all of these horrible scenarios of what admission committees would do to my app:
.. spit on it
.. set it on fire
.. write ROFLcopter or LAWL on it and just send it back..
Click to expand...

I've been an observer to this process and at least for my program, they initially weed out the weaker applicants and try to form some sort of rejected/interview pile. Then they go through the rejected pile 2 more times to make sure they didn't blatantly refuse interviews to any candidates who met the arbitrary cutoffs. So rest assured that (I hope!) at most programs, your application will get looked at multiple times by multiple faculty members!
 
cara susanna said:
It's just that the exchange probably needs to have more substance beyond "Are you taking students for next fall?" "Yes."
Click to expand...

My impression is that this is all you really NEED to do via e-mail. Websites and reading research can usually suffice for the rest... until you actually meet them at the interview! Is this correct?
 
Yes, and sometimes their website will even say if they're taking students or not.
 
Before I applied to grad school, I think I did what most of probably did...looked at profs bio and website and gleaned a "snapshot" of what their research/labs were all about. I can remember a few profs whose labs I believed were a perfect "fit" for me. I subsequently meet a few of these folks at conferences and after meeting them realized that even though on paper they seemed perfect, in person they were not...at least for me.

I know that it is hard to meet the prof you may potential want to work with. My though is that fit is extremely important. Not only research fit, but personality fit as well.

I actually turned down a "higher tier" school because the "fit' was not there.

Good luck!
 
Thank you for the responses I appreciated them 🙂

I'm going to be a junior so I'm still over a year away from applying.

I'm just starting to look at schools now. I'll probably look at their websites and gather all the info I can and then if I have a specific question about research I'll shoot someone an email. Sound like a good plan?
 
That's what I did! I recently decided not to apply for fall 2010, but rather fall 2011, however 90% of the e-mails I sent resulted in a lengthy discussion of research experience, interests, and in a lot of the cases, and invite to come see the lab.
 
FWIW, most of emails I've gotten back have been extremely helpful, and a few have included additional info on the program (for example, theoretical orientation, or practicum sites, or that they're not mentor-model) that isn't available on the program websites (and I read them extensively before I email).
 
futureapppsy2 said:
FWIW, most of emails I've gotten back have been extremely helpful, and a few have included additional info on the program (for example, theoretical orientation, or practicum sites, or that they're not mentor-model) that isn't available on the program websites (and I read them extensively before I email).
Click to expand...

Hopefully I will have some similar success. 🙂
 
Hi!

I too have found e-mailing prospective programs very helpful! Overall, faculty have been really great at responding and very supportive. One faculty member said that they strongly encourage me to apply, another said they don't have funding for next year but would love to work with me if I get in to work with someone else, another told me to keep in touch with any questions that come up, another offered to put me in contact with a student who does research in a similar area. Another faculty asked me for a resume while yet another e-mailed me something their lab is working on and asked me for my feedback. I have had GREAT correspondence with about 3 faculty members.

I have gotten a couple more neutral that have been yes, I am accepting a student and good luck with process or something to that effect. I have also received a couple no, I'm not accepting a student or I recently became Dean, am going on sabbatical, or your research interests aren't exactly what I will be working on.

Just my two cents, but if I hadn't e-mailed I wouldn't have been able to get a better idea of where I am going to apply and who I want to work with. Best of luck! 🙂
 
Last edited:
Maybe you guys just write better emails than I do. 😉
 
I have also received a couple no, I'm not accepting a student or I recently became Dean, am going on sabbatical, or your research interests aren't exactly what I will be working on.
Click to expand...

Got my first one of those today 🙁, still very nicely worded.

Maybe you guys just write better emails than I do.
Click to expand...

Judging from your posts here, I'm sure your emails were wonderfully written. Really. 🙂
 
Aww, thank you! They got very nice responses, just nothing really impressive like you guys seem to be getting. 😉
 
Cara Susanna - writing is actually my forte - so I am not looking forward to the interview portion of the application process 😉 I was really surprised by all the positive responses; from what I read here on SDN I was expecting a lot of generic responses.

For anyone who wants to know, this is what I did. I spent a lot of time researching possible matches and then brainstorming for an introduction e-mail letter. Then crafted an introduction letter explaining my experience, background, and research interests. I also have a unique background and quite specific interests that many professors only partly match, so had to explain why I chose them to write to sort-of-deal.

futureapppsy2 - I know it is disappointing to get those e-mails, but at least you didn't waste $50 or so applying to a school where the person you want to work with isn't accepting a student for some reason. That is how I choose to perceive those e-mails.
 
I'm actually a good writer, too! Oh well, it doesn't matter anymore.

Don't worry about interviews--they are a LOT easier than you think. Mine were, anyway.
 
I'm worried to start e-mailing POI's. I feel like I need to study each and every one of them in-depth before I write them. I'd prefer an interview face-to-face over anything via-e-mail.
 
I realize I'm posting on a really old thread, but I found it via searching.

I'm basically torn about whether to ask any questions at all (besides "are you accepting students?" if I don't already know the answer to that). I work in two labs, one experimental and one clinical, and the experimental PI says she will not consider anyone that had not contacted her prior to applying. The clinical PI told me she finds these emails with questions in them extremely irritating. Since I'll be applying to clinical programs, this worries me, and has led me to wonder if I should just play it safe and send an introductory email that doesn't put any demands on the professor to respond to questions other than a simple yes/no to the "are you accepting" question.

Any thoughts on this?
 
If you have legit questions, I think its fine to ask. If you are asking questions just for the sake of making conversation...don't.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

P
Doctoral Program
Replies
3
Views
655
smalltownpsych
smalltownpsych
docin100yrs
NYC Externship Match '25
Replies
0
Views
830
docin100yrs
docin100yrs
~Soñadora~
What are the consequences of breaking APPIC match agreement?
Replies
13
Views
2K
GregK
G
C
Widener PsyD Program
Replies
5
Views
2K
DrCoal
D
P
State supervision program
Replies
20
Views
1K
borne_before
borne_before
Top