Programs being phased out and APA accreditation

[futureapppsy2]

Hi,

A friend (no, really) in a university-based APA-accredited PhD program recently received word that the program will very likely be shut down in the near future, as the university has judged it and its accreditation too costly to maintain.

If a program is officially phased out, is it allowed to keep its accreditation until the currently enrolled students graduate without going through the full re-accreditation process? In this case, the program would typically be up for re-accred. 2-3 years before the last students would graduate, and given that the university is already resistant to paying for upkeep of accreditation, it seems doubtful that they would pay for the fairly costly and time-consuming re-accreditation process only 2-3 years before the program shuts down.

(And yes, this really really sucks for the students. 🙁 I interviewed there last year, and as far as I could see, there was no writing on the wall predicting this.)

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[aequitasveritas]

Wow,

I'm sorry to hear that.

I am unsure if you are currently enrolled or are considering enrollment.

If you are enrolled, the status of the program upon graduation is what will be on your dimploma and your record. If you graduate from a program that, at the time of gratuation, does not have APA acred, you will forever have graduated from a non-apa acred program no matter what.

If you have not enrolled then I would caution you from stepping foot anywhere near the place. The idea of a "funded" university program avoiding APA acred for cost is absurd. I am more curious than ever to know what school this is. If that is the mentality of the admin and faculty then you probably don't want whatever type of training they offer, as they will be creating researchers without a viable path to licensure, which is a blaze toward researcher ignorance; inferences should flow from the field to the lab; not the other way around.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Wow,

I'm sorry to hear that.

I am unsure if you are currently enrolled or are considering enrollment.

If you are enrolled, the status of the program upon graduation is what will be on your dimploma and your record. If you graduate from a program that, at the time of gratuation, does not have APA acred, you will forever have graduated from a non-apa acred program no matter what.

If you have not enrolled then I would caution you from stepping foot anywhere near the place. The idea of a "funded" university program avoiding APA acred for cost is absurd. I am more curious than ever to know what school this is. If that is the mentality of the admin and faculty then you probably don't want whatever type of training they offer, as they will be creating researchers without a viable path to licensure, which is a blaze toward researcher ignorance; inferences should flow from the field to the lab; not the other way around.

To clarify again, this isn't my program but a friend's program(she is currently enrolled) so I don't know and wouldn't feel comfortable sharing a lot of the details above what I posted above. As far as I know, it hasnt been made public or official yet. My question is specifically asked above, and I couldn't find anything on phase out and re-access when I searched the APA CoA guidelines. Yes, it's incredibly rough for the current students, but I'm not going to start making extreme judgements or jumping to conclusions as an outsider in all this. I do know that they didnt take any students this cycle.

 

[aequitasveritas]

To clarify again, this isn't my program but a friend's program(she is currently enrolled) so I don't know and wouldn't feel comfortable sharing a lot of the details above what I posted above. As far as I know, it hasnt been made public or official yet. My question is specifically asked above, and I couldn't find anything on phase out and re-access when I searched the APA CoA guidelines. Yes, it's incredibly rough for the current students, but I'm not going to start making extreme judgements or jumping to conclusions as an outsider in all this. I do know that they didnt take any students this cycle.

The re-assess or phase out is moot because the APA is clear about the status of a program at the time of graduation. It makes no difference whether the program fails to pay dues or loses acred. based on failure to meet review crieria. The point is, your friend will not have graduated from an APA acred program if they have lost it before the degree is granted.
Hope this helps.

 

[futureapppsy2]

The re-assess or phase out is moot because the APA is clear about the status of a program at the time of graduation. It makes no difference whether the program fails to pay dues or loses acred. based on failure to meet review crieria. The point is, your friend will not have graduated from an APA acred program if they have lost it before the degree is granted.
Hope this helps.

But there's no contingency for letting a program maintain accreditation if it officially becomes inactive with the APA? This is an official accred. status for programs that are officially ending but still need to graduate current students, but I don't know any of the policy specifications concerning it. On one hand, it would make sense that the APA would stick to their 3/5/7 year APA re-accreditation time frame. On the other, does it make sense to go through a portfolio and site visit (time and money intensive on both ends) if the program will no longer be in 1 or 2 years? It would be different if they planned to keep the program running as an unaccredited program, but they seem to going for a total ending of the program from what I've heard.

 

[aequitasveritas]

But there's no contingency for letting a program maintain accreditation if it officially becomes inactive with the APA? This is an official accred. status for programs that are officially ending but still need to graduate current students, but I don't know any of the policy specifications concerning it. On one hand, it would make sense that the APA would stick to their 3/5/7 year APA re-accreditation time frame. On the other, does it make sense to go through a portfolio and site visit (time and money intensive on both ends) if the program will no longer be in 1 or 2 years? It would be different if they planned to keep the program running as an unaccredited program, but they seem to going for a total ending of the program from what I've heard.

I would consider calling the APA if I were you or your friend to inquire.
As far as I can tell, if a program does not go through re acred for whatever reason, they will not maintain even conditional acred regardless of the reason.

 

[docma]

Asking the CoA is the only way to get a useful answer. I agree with the poster below that there is some form of conditional accreditation for programs that close so that students who are already enrolled are not compromised if they have been making progress in an accredited program. Universities do close or consolidate programs but the accreditation of the closed programs does not "disappear" (even if the problem no longer exists) and graduates maintain their accredited-program status.

 

[O Gurl]

I also think that the APA accreditation status at the time the degree is conferred is final. Not sure if there are provisions for allowing accreditation to extend because a program is closing. However, I am really shocked that the programs is keeping this quiet. Seems to me that they THEY should get things clear with the APA and communicate openly with their students. The students deserve a chance to plan for whatever they need to do.

 

[berlin81]

I agree with O Gurl that the program should be up front on what is going on. However its been my experience that some programs try to keep a lid on things for various reasons. This happened to a program that I was in a several years ago. Although I was in the master's program (so APA accreditation was not a big issue), I was not made aware that their PhD program lost their APA accreditation the year before I enrolled. After hearing that piece of information I then found out that there was a huge faculty shake-up and essentially all the faculty was relatively new.

Looking back, I believe the program was able to keep things quiet since it was part of a huge university (Big 10 school). Plus, most of the incoming MA students were not from the area, so hearing on-campus gossip would of been difficult (this was before Facebook and Twitter existed!).

Sadly, its my opinion that many programs try to minimize their weaknesses as much as possible. Also, I think schools that have the "big name" have an advantage towards hiding whatever short-comings simply because their name itself attracts perspective students. As we all know, education and marketing go hand-in-hand!

 

[ImGrumpy]

Hi,

A friend (no, really) in a university-based APA-accredited PhD program recently received word that the program will very likely be shut down in the near future, as the university has judged it and its accreditation too costly to maintain.

(And yes, this really really sucks for the students. 🙁 I interviewed there last year, and as far as I could see, there was no writing on the wall predicting this.)

Unfortunately, with the current economic climate, these things are happening to programs in multiple disciplines at many universities. Smaller, high cost programs are being phased out. In some cases, whole departments are being dismantled. Universities are also using the current budget situations to make major cuts in departments they feel haven't "played nice" with others or that are heavily staffed by higher cost tenured professors. PhD programs, particularly if mostly funded students, cost Universities big time. Right now, there is no writing on the wall until state legislatures meet, endowment numbers come out, etc and budget talks begin so this usually comes as a surprise to everyone, including the department. And yes, it does suck for both the students and faculty involved. Right now I am sure the faculty is as shocked as the students.

It's a little easier to keep loss of accredidation quiet for awhile than it is to keep the elimination of a program quiet. Elimination of a program means budget hearings, trustee approval with corresponding minutes, etc. And those are usually covered by the media. At the very least, the school newspaper should have pick this up and reported on it when it was first proposed with followup. If that didn't happen, then maybe the journalism/communication department should be looked at for phase out.

Since the OP stated LIKELY, it would appear this is not a done deal. The department faculty may be in the dark as much as the students. They may have been told that there would be no incoming students this year because there was no money in the budget to support additional students and they believed it would be different next year. It could be the Dean is the only one with any information and even that may spotty. The Dean may be fighting in hopes this decision is reversed or at least the University will agree to one more round of accredidation attempt. Sometimes it is more effective to present your case behind the scenes before everything becomes public. Other time, public support and/or outrage is the only thing that will work. Officially contacting the APA at this point "for guidance" could mean more scrutiny if the University agrees to pay for the next accredidation attempt. So, it is possible that the person or people in the department who actually do have more information on this are so caught up in trying to save the program and/or the accreditation that they either believe that widespread dissemination of the situation will hurt their cause or they just don't have the time to feed information to those who will be impacted the most. Then again, could be the Dean is just busily looking for a new job. It's hard to tell.

In any case, it is a bad situation. If your friend is not generally one to go in for gossip, now is the time to start. Keep eyes and ears open. Listen to what the faculty are saying to each other. Get on listservs or join facebook groups. And particularly, befriend the administrative assistants! They frequently have the best and most up to date information. I hope this situation can be turned around and the University will agree to pay to try and continue accreditation. But, that is a decision that probably won't be made for a year or two since there is still more time currently so the students and faculty will be left in a tense unresolved situation for a couple of years. Not good.

 

[PsyDLICSW]

Hi,

A friend (no, really) in a university-based APA-accredited PhD program recently received word that the program will very likely be shut down in the near future, as the university has judged it and its accreditation too costly to maintain.

If a program is officially phased out, is it allowed to keep its accreditation until the currently enrolled students graduate without going through the full re-accreditation process? In this case, the program would typically be up for re-accred. 2-3 years before the last students would graduate, and given that the university is already resistant to paying for upkeep of accreditation, it seems doubtful that they would pay for the fairly costly and time-consuming re-accreditation process only 2-3 years before the program shuts down.

(And yes, this really really sucks for the students. 🙁 I interviewed there last year, and as far as I could see, there was no writing on the wall predicting this.)

I was under the impression that if you entered the program with accreditation, you graduate with accreditation, even if the accreditation is phased out or revoked.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I was under the impression that if you entered the program with accreditation, you graduate with accreditation, even if the accreditation is phased out or revoked.

I believe it's the other way around--regardless of the status at enrollment, the accreditation status of your program at graduation is the only thing that counts.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I believe it's the other way around--regardless of the status at enrollment, the accreditation status of your program at graduation is the only thing that counts.

Yep, the APA CoA website is pretty explicit on that point...

 

[PsyDLICSW]

Yep, the APA CoA website is pretty explicit on that point...

So if you enter an accredited program and accreditation is revoked while you are there, you won't graduate with accreditation? I thought they phased out the accreditation process so students who entered the program with accreditation graduated with accreditation (e.g. you enter a program on 2009, APA visited in 2011, decided to remove accreditation, and the program remains accredited until the class of 2011 graduates with accreditation and then graduates after that are not accredited).

 

[AcronymAllergy]

So if you enter an accredited program and accreditation is revoked while you are there, you won't graduate with accreditation? I thought they phased out the accreditation process so students who entered the program with accreditation graduated with accreditation (e.g. you enter a program on 2009, APA visited in 2011, decided to remove accreditation, and the program remains accredited until the class of 2011 graduates with accreditation and then graduates after that are not accredited).

Nope, pretty sure you'd be on record as graduating from an unaccredited school if accred status is lost while you're in training but before you finish. The opposite is also true--if you enter a non-accred program that gains accred while you're there, you'll be on record as graduating from an accredited program.

 

[thewesternsky]

So if you enter an accredited program and accreditation is revoked while you are there, you won't graduate with accreditation?

Correct.

 

[busybusybusy]

So if you enter an accredited program and accreditation is revoked while you are there, you won't graduate with accreditation? I thought they phased out the accreditation process so students who entered the program with accreditation graduated with accreditation (e.g. you enter a program on 2009, APA visited in 2011, decided to remove accreditation, and the program remains accredited until the class of 2011 graduates with accreditation and then graduates after that are not accredited).

This is true, but the APA won't just come visit and revoke the accreditation. They put the program on probation first, giving them time to remedy the problems, and re-visit the site between 12 and 24 months later. So, it is still feasable that you could enter a program, have the APA place your program on probation, and then revoke the accreditation; however you should know all of this is going on. The APA notes them on their website, so you can see which progams on on probation http://www.apa.org/ed/accreditation/programs/index.aspx (look at John F. Kennedy Univ. under clinical psych).

I do wonder though if it is looked down on for someone to try and transfer out of an on probation/revoked accreditation school?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I do wonder though if it is looked down on for someone to try and transfer out of an on probation/revoked accreditation school?

I don't think anyone would fault a student in that scenario, as long as they were halfway decent in how they went about leave their original program (letting them know your concern, your decision to leave, give them enough time to fill your spot, etc).