Programs calling you?

[PreciousDaughte]

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My #1, #2, #3 programs have all called me to "see where I was in the process and answer any questions I might have." They all said the exact same thing!

I don't have any questions. If they're calling just to show interest I appreciate it and think it's great.

However, part of me wonders if they're just trying to get a feeling of where they are on my list - maybe gauge my excitement level, etc.

I've told my #1 they're my #1, but all I can tell 2 & 3 is that they are high on my list.

Frankly, I don't think I'll match at my #1.

Is it a known thing that programs use follow-up calls to gauge interest? Or are they just marketing themselves?

Thanks!

 

[masterofmonkeys]

Combination of both more than likely. I've received a couple of calls and they've been similarly noncommital and vague. Which is actually fine by me. Because 1) it's kinda against the spirit of the NRMP to do otherwise. And I don't want to be told I'm 'ranked to match'. just because you're ranked to match doesn't mean you actually will. Too much uncertainty in the system.

 

[coryjellybean]

i think they *can* rank people to match (assuming you tell the truth about them being #1) and it's nice to hear that although i still don't believe anything until i actually see match results. stressful process.... good luck everyone...

 

[masterofmonkeys]

well the problem is what 'rank to match' actually means. Say I'm a PD at a program with 6 slots. In past years, our program seems to go down to the 24th or 25th slot to fill.

I call a hopeful and they tell me they've ranked us 'very highly'. I have no idea what that means. I in turn tell him or her that we'll be ranking them to match. I stick them at number 18 on my rank list. Given that we routinely go down this far on our rank list, I have indeed 'ranked them to match'. But it just so happens that by the time the computer gets to number 15 on our rank list we fill our 6th spot. We got lucky and had a huge class of local students who wanted to remain in the area. They were all very strong candidates and much stronger than we usually had. That said we weren't expecting them all to stay. The student I told we'd 'ranked to match' ends up not matching. I didn't lie to the student, but they still got left out in the cold.

This scenario could very well play out at my home institution this year. We have 14 entering psych (most ever). 4 spots. More than half want to stay. In past years, we've gone to the high teens-mid twenties to fill. This year, I'd be very surprised if we went past the single digits.

 

[dianamd]

well the problem is what 'rank to match' actually means. Say I'm a PD at a program with 6 slots. In past years, our program seems to go down to the 24th or 25th slot to fill.

I call a hopeful and they tell me they've ranked us 'very highly'. I have no idea what that means. I in turn tell him or her that we'll be ranking them to match. I stick them at number 18 on my rank list. Given that we routinely go down this far on our rank list, I have indeed 'ranked them to match'. But it just so happens that by the time the computer gets to number 15 on our rank list we fill our 6th spot. We got lucky and had a huge class of local students who wanted to remain in the area. They were all very strong candidates and much stronger than we usually had. That said we weren't expecting them all to stay. The student I told we'd 'ranked to match' ends up not matching. I didn't lie to the student, but they still got left out in the cold.

This scenario could very well play out at my home institution this year. We have 14 entering psych (most ever). 4 spots. More than half want to stay. In past years, we've gone to the high teens-mid twenties to fill. This year, I'd be very surprised if we went past the single digits.

I see that, but I always thought that "ranked to match" was something with a clear definition, i.e., for the number of spots that you have in the program. So for your program, six people only can be "ranked to match," and others can be "ranked extremely highly/favorably" or whatever misleading language these programs like to use when they talk to applicants.

As for a previous poster, you may not think that you'll match at your #1, but the process is so mysterious that you can just never know.

 

[Abram Hoffer]

My #1, #2, #3 programs have all called me to "see where I was in the process and answer any questions I might have." They all said the exact same thing!

I don't have any questions. If they're calling just to show interest I appreciate it and think it's great.

However, part of me wonders if they're just trying to get a feeling of where they are on my list - maybe gauge my excitement level, etc.

I've told my #1 they're my #1, but all I can tell 2 & 3 is that they are high on my list.

Frankly, I don't think I'll match at my #1.

Is it a known thing that programs use follow-up calls to gauge interest? Or are they just marketing themselves?

Thanks!

While I haven't received any phone calls, I have received letters/emails from all but one program. They range from walking a fine line to vague, but each one has flattery and "reasons to rank us high" statements. Some are personal in a few ways--suggestive of a form letter that has been tweaked. Others are clearly form letters. Sometimes I wish I didn't really have a #1; it would make the outcome much easier if it happens to be other than 1. Best of luck!

 

[masterofmonkeys]

Wow, I've received feedback only from about a 1/3 of the programs I interviewed at. My home program wasn't even one of those lol.

 

[diosa428]

I see that, but I always thought that "ranked to match" was something with a clear definition, i.e., for the number of spots that you have in the program. So for your program, six people only can be "ranked to match," and others can be "ranked extremely highly/favorably" or whatever misleading language these programs like to use when they talk to applicants.

As for a previous poster, you may not think that you'll match at your #1, but the process is so mysterious that you can just never know.

I think that, in the literal meaning of the phrase, you're correct, but what masterofmonkeys describes is how programs more commonly use the phrase...

 

[Tradewind]

I got a couple of one way notifications that I'd be in the top X (the # that would allow rank to match), a one way call from Columbia saying I'd be "ranked highly" and a one way call from Longwood inquiring about any remaining questions I might have.

The other half didn't say anything, but after the match, I heard that a couple of programs who hadn't contacted me were disappointed I didn't match at their programs. And I wasn't fishing for compliments. Still, it seems to me that if an applicant is in the top X, the program would want to let that applicant know that. So, I'm not convinced of the flattery.

Anyway, I think programs vary in how they reach out before the match. Some only tell the top X, whereas others may have different adjectives for applicants depending on where they are on the list. And, there have been occasional horror stories, so take the feedback with a grain of salt and rank where you'd like to be. Once you're at a program, who cares where you were on the rank list.

Having 1/3 send out messages of various sorts is totally normal.

 

[Abram Hoffer]

Wow, I've received feedback only from about a 1/3 of the programs I interviewed at. My home program wasn't even one of those lol.

I've followed your posts here and there, and not to worry, you have a lot of great interviews, you appear to be quite normal (for a psych candidate that's a big plus), and it will only benefit your career to be at a place that really wants you there. Your match outcome will be perfect for you, I am sure. I had no feedback at all about a week or so ago. Then all of the sudden, the letters/emails came pouring in. It felt good, but then I starting reading between the lines, and... I put them all aside and didn't change my list at all. Best of luck.

 

[dianamd]

I think that, in the literal meaning of the phrase, you're correct, but what masterofmonkeys describes is how programs more commonly use the phrase...

Yes, it's true, I can be a concrete thinker.

I naively thought that they would/could not say "ranked to match" unless they were literally putting you in the range that is ranked to match (ie, # of spots in the program). But there is no oversight and so I guess they fudge it a little, tell that to more people than the # of spots.

That said, I got some good feedback, but nobody ever uttered that specific phrase to me. Whatever. Never like it when programs call...

 

[PreciousDaughte]

I got a couple of one way notifications that I'd be in the top X (the # that would allow rank to match), a one way call from Columbia saying I'd be "ranked highly" and a one way call from Longwood inquiring about any remaining questions I might have.

Nobody has told me I'm in the top X. . . Nor have I heard from Longwood!

But I guess you're talking about a previous year. Has anyone else heard from Longwood this year? feel free to PM me.

 

[Restless]

Has anyone received any feedback from Duke? Please PM me, I just would like to see if I am not in their top tier or even a twinkle in their eye. I know the PD wrote thank you's in 2005 but I don't know if that has still continued. Any response would be greatly appreciated. Feel free to PM me as well..

 

[Tradewind]

i think they *can* rank people to match (assuming you tell the truth about them being #1) and it's nice to hear that although i still don't believe anything until i actually see match results. stressful process.... good luck everyone...

Actually, making a pact (if that's what this was) is technically against the match rules. Unless the program takes your slot out of the match and assigns it to you. It's okay for you to tell a program they're #1. (As it sounds like you've done, only to one program... As Program Directors do talk to each other...) It's also okay for a program to tell you you're ranked highly (or in top X, or v highly, etc..). But it's not okay to say, I'll rank you in the top X if you rank us #1, or I'll rank you #1 if you put me int the rank to match list. This is against the rules of the match and as someone earlier pointed out, breaks the spirit of the match system. No one should have to kiss up to improve their odds of matching. When I got one way messages from programs, I did not reply. And I don't think any of you should have to either.

Also, since several are concerned about not hearing from programs, I wanted to say that that's the status quo for the majority of applicants at most programs, particularly the larger ones. This is often true even for applicants that end up matching at the very programs that provided no feedback. So I would make your list depending on where you want to be, not how much feedback you get. Though I understand that in some cases, that's impossible, as we are all human.

Anyway, it sounds like you really want to go to the place you've received good feedback from and I'm not insinuating that you in particular kissed up. Good luck, CoryJellybean! 👍

 

[CarleneM]

I've been getting a lot of phone calls and a few emails. Two programs have told me I'm "guaranteed to match" and explicitly said I was ranked within the number of spots they have available. While I would hope they wouldn't say I'm within a certain cutoff and not mean it, I am not counting any chickens before they hatch. Most others are vague and non-committal.

Have not heard a peep from Longwood (and I'm from HMS), other than a thank you note back in December in response to my thank you addressed to "Sarah M..." rather than "Carlene M..."

Nobody has told me I'm in the top X. . . Nor have I heard from Longwood!

But I guess you're talking about a previous year. Has anyone else heard from Longwood this year? feel free to PM me.

 

[dianamd]

I've been getting a lot of phone calls and a few emails. Two programs have told me I'm "guaranteed to match" and explicitly said I was ranked within the number of spots they have available. While I would hope they wouldn't say I'm within a certain cutoff and not mean it, I am not counting any chickens before they hatch. Most others are vague and non-committal.

Have not heard a peep from Longwood (and I'm from HMS), other than a thank you note back in December in response to my thank you addressed to "Sarah M..." rather than "Carlene M..."

Uggh... Stressful!

The Sarah M/Carlene M thing is hilarious. I wouldn't take it to mean anything though, other than an administrative error. Don't worry, I'm sure if you want Longwood, they would be lucky to have you, and you could have it 🙂

I got a few voicemails telling me that they liked me -- which I never return.

I got one or two e-mails, a letter (in the mail!) from one program. And only one program has given me the "sure to match" bit, and that was during the interview with the PD.

Anyway, I don't think you can read too much into any of this. Speaking with residents at some of the programs, it seems like the vast majority either heard (1) nothing or (2) a vague, noncommittal response.

A program may send out 15 "ranked to match" e-mails. But when 12 of those applicants go to other programs, the vast majority of residents at the program never got this kind of "positive feedback."

I am with a PD I met, who called all this "dirty recruiting" -- pushing the ethical limits of the match agreement, putting pressure on applicants, etc. Just interview and rank, that's what I would prefer!

 

[pseudodoc]

Hmmm.... the calls are good when they're from a school you want to be at, and bad when they're from schools you're on the fence about. Maybe its just me being neurotic, but I swear I've gotten calls from several programs in the last two weeks, each precipitating a rank list adjustment or me thinking, "well, maybe i should reconsider them." I think I'm going to start screening my calls a little more carefully...😉

 

[masterofmonkeys]

Just don't let the calls influence how you're going to rank. They shouldn't anyway. The only thing I'm letting them influence is my anxiety level. And with regard to my home institution having NO contact with me since October freaking 24, annoyance.

 

[CaMD]

I 100% agree that positive feedback shouldn't affect where you rank a program. I thus far haven't let it change my ranklist.

THAT SAID, it totally makes me re-think and wonder if I should I should be moving them up because they're nice, and want me, and that feels good.

I have to keep telling myself it's just a game...

 

[PreciousDaughte]

I must be taking these calls the wrong way.

I always get paranoid that they're trying to gauge my level of interest - like they're pressuring me to say "you're #1" even if they aren't.

So I'm with all of those who feel these things ramp up the anxiety level!

 

[Pat79]

Has anyone received any feedback from Duke? Please PM me, I just would like to see if I am not in their top tier or even a twinkle in their eye. I know the PD wrote thank you's in 2005 but I don't know if that has still continued. Any response would be greatly appreciated. Feel free to PM me as well..

Haven't heard anything from Duke recently, but received a note shortly after my interview last semester.

 

[CarleneM]

Hmmm.... the calls are good when they're from a school you want to be at, and bad when they're from schools you're on the fence about. Maybe its just me being neurotic, but I swear I've gotten calls from several programs in the last two weeks, each precipitating a rank list adjustment or me thinking, "well, maybe i should reconsider them." I think I'm going to start screening my calls a little more carefully...😉

I don't answer calls from unknown numbers and agree this is quite an awkward situation. Sometimes I respond via email if they indicate that as an option or if it is clear they want some response. Most don't request a response unless I have questions. One program called to schedule a call with the Chairman so that could not be avoided. Luckily, it is a program I am very interested in so it wasn't awkward. So far, the calls haven't influenced my list in a dramatic way.

 

[Rena]

Just don't let the calls influence how you're going to rank. They shouldn't anyway. The only thing I'm letting them influence is my anxiety level. And with regard to my home institution having NO contact with me since October freaking 24, annoyance.

Did you tell anybody from the program about your other interviews? I noticed that they are really obsessed about commitment to the area.
I saw how changed Andrew's face (you know him) when he asked one indian guy (IMG) about IVs and that guy started talking about Harvard Southshore and etc. with great enthusiasm.

 

[anesthesiarocks]

My #1, #2, #3 programs have all called me to "see where I was in the process and answer any questions I might have." They all said the exact same thing!

I don't have any questions. If they're calling just to show interest I appreciate it and think it's great.

However, part of me wonders if they're just trying to get a feeling of where they are on my list - maybe gauge my excitement level, etc.

I've told my #1 they're my #1, but all I can tell 2 & 3 is that they are high on my list.

Frankly, I don't think I'll match at my #1.

Is it a known thing that programs use follow-up calls to gauge interest? Or are they just marketing themselves?

Thanks!

probably depends on the program......I've been called by a few. Most of the time I said I was "interested" in their program and had no further questions. One program I told I was unlikely to rank them(university of virginia)

 

[Still Kickin]

I hope I'm not the only person who has received a grand total of *zero* phonecalls...