Programs Filled 2009

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onyX

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Anyone know of any programs that already filled?
Somewhere in Chicago I read?

I don't know any, Cornell's intereviewing in September.
 
Anyone know of any programs that already filled?
Somewhere in Chicago I read?

I don't know any, Cornell's intereviewing in September.

To my knowledge

U of Chicago
UCLA

everyone else that was mentioned are just 'hearsay'. These two institutions actually sent letters saying "we have been full,etc..."
 
It's a terrible process. The longer I wait the more appealing private practice looks. I'm still waiting to hear back from a bunch. Any idea if mgh, Stanford, or Cornell have offered spots yet?
 
Cornell is wide open still. We have not started interviewing-begin Sept 16. Never been a better time to apply here. Usually 4 of 8 spots go to Cornell residents (we do not permit more than 4 to be accepted out of fairness to outside applicants); however this year, most of the seniors are doing cardiac fellowships, so the outlook is good for applicants. All is not lost.
 
Applications no longer accepted-deadline August 1 to have applied but allow up until Sept 1 to have all recs etc in; interviews start next week (60 people scheduled)
 
It's a terrible process. The longer I wait the more appealing private practice looks. I'm still waiting to hear back from a bunch. Any idea if mgh, Stanford, or Cornell have offered spots yet?

Yah..anyoen know if Stanford has offered anything to anyone?
 
Yah..anyoen know if Stanford has offered anything to anyone?

No. I haven't heard anything...

But aren't there approx 90 programs? (Info from FREIDA/AMA). seems like we're all applying for the same ones 😎
 
No. I haven't heard anything...

But aren't there approx 90 programs? (Info from FREIDA/AMA). seems like we're all applying for the same ones 😎

LOL....tell me about it..it's worrisome at times. I just hope we all get into the programs that we think are good. I bet you though, people on SDN generally apply to 'top' tier programs mroe often. Just an observation. Says a lot.
 
UC Irvine is reportedly full.

Any other new news?
 
to consolidate to above, and in addition to

Oregon Health Sciences
U. of Chicago
Cinicinnati
Mayo
Stanford
UCSF
Spaulding
UCLA
Hopkins
Virginia Mason
UCI
Dartmouth
U Maryland
U Michigan
 
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Don't worry, I don't think Cincinnati is as strong as they were before they lost Munir.

Yeah you are right. Munir is no more there and Akbik sucks. He does a lot of procedures though but want you to just watch and "clap". I dont know anything about new PD.
 
this program had only one slot available really. They had an internal candidate for the other slot. The pmnr post was for 2 yrs. Dr Akbik discouraged pain medicine and said the future is bleak- stick to anesthesia.:laugh:
Strange thing to say at an interview? Dr Sachdeva was nice....:luck:
Lunch at the Marriott was nice.
 
brigham won't decide until mid october
 
brigham won't decide until mid october


Incorrect. Brigham is essentially full. This is the kind of crap these programs pull. They offer 3-4 interview dates. Nobody tells you that it is really "first come, first serve". Specifically, spots are offered on an ongoing basis. People who interview early have a higher chance of being offered a spot than those who interview later. Most programs do this, but don't tell you in advance. Cornell (I interviewed 9/30 and was told at least 4-5 spots had already been offered and accepted), MGH (again interviewed last day and learned that essentially all spots were taken). So, while it is true that brigham may have one remaining interview day (Oct. 15th) they already know who they are taking. They have offered spots to the best candidates, and most have been filled already. If you already interviewed and have not heard back, you are not getting an offer. Period. They might save 1 spot for the last batch of interviews, but that is it. I can't be any more blunt.

Back on track now, most of the programs are full. There are very few programs out there that are not. If you haven't heard back from a place, you should expect a paper rejection shortly. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that is reality.
 
Incorrect. Brigham is essentially full. This is the kind of crap these programs pull. They offer 3-4 interview dates. Nobody tells you that it is really "first come, first serve". Specifically, spots are offered on an ongoing basis. People who interview early have a higher chance of being offered a spot than those who interview later. Most programs do this, but don't tell you in advance. Cornell (I interviewed 9/30 and was told at least 4-5 spots had already been offered and accepted), MGH (again interviewed last day and learned that essentially all spots were taken). So, while it is true that brigham may have one remaining interview day (Oct. 15th) they already know who they are taking. They have offered spots to the best candidates, and most have been filled already. If you already interviewed and have not heard back, you are not getting an offer. Period. They might save 1 spot for the last batch of interviews, but that is it. I can't be any more blunt.

Back on track now, most of the programs are full. There are very few programs out there that are not. If you haven't heard back from a place, you should expect a paper rejection shortly. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that is reality.

Speaking from Cornell, at the time of the 9/30 interview (our last day), we had 3 bona fide vacancies of 8 total (no one was even offered those spots as of then). In fact, we are today still deliberating about our final offer (split amongst a bunch of people).

Remember, programs may make offers, but people may reject the offer and then what do you do? And often when people reject an offer, it is not usually immediately-they let you know the day the offer expires and then another offer has to be made and the cycle begins again.

If you have no chance of getting a spot (or low likelihood), then I agree you should be told and not strung along (particularly if you hold another offer in hand). In the last several years of doing this, I must admit we have been "wowed" by many an applicant from our last day of interviewing and were this year as well. The only reason we started making offers this year before completing all the interviews (last year we waited till all interviewing was done) is beause we discovered we were late in the interviewing schedule and several of our potentials needed to let other offers know if they were coming. Having said all that, yes a match would be fairer (and easier) to all-tell me where to sign.
 
Are there really that many people who want to go into IPM, or has the number of programs significantly diminished?

Frankly I'm surprised at the interest. I have often wondered if the 40+ crowd in IPM was an offshoot of the anesthesia job shortage in the mid-90s. I figured people did pain fellowships because they couldn't find a gas job after graduation, and the "plum" fellowships in those days (cardiac and OB) were full.
 
Incorrect. Brigham is essentially full. This is the kind of crap these programs pull. They offer 3-4 interview dates. Nobody tells you that it is really "first come, first serve". Specifically, spots are offered on an ongoing basis. People who interview early have a higher chance of being offered a spot than those who interview later. Most programs do this, but don't tell you in advance. Cornell (I interviewed 9/30 and was told at least 4-5 spots had already been offered and accepted), MGH (again interviewed last day and learned that essentially all spots were taken). So, while it is true that brigham may have one remaining interview day (Oct. 15th) they already know who they are taking. They have offered spots to the best candidates, and most have been filled already. If you already interviewed and have not heard back, you are not getting an offer. Period. They might save 1 spot for the last batch of interviews, but that is it. I can't be any more blunt.

Back on track now, most of the programs are full. There are very few programs out there that are not. If you haven't heard back from a place, you should expect a paper rejection shortly. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but that is reality.

he is correct. this is how every place i interviewed at works. they have many interviews, however, it's not really first come, first serve per se. cuz if you're not a top notch candidate and you interview early... guess what? u still ain't gettin no spot, Sir!
 
Assman

Is cornell filled?
 
Are there really that many people who want to go into IPM, or has the number of programs significantly diminished?

Frankly I'm surprised at the interest. I have often wondered if the 40+ crowd in IPM was an offshoot of the anesthesia job shortage in the mid-90s. I figured people did pain fellowships because they couldn't find a gas job after graduation, and the "plum" fellowships in those days (cardiac and OB) were full.

You have to remember that now pain is open to multiple specialties (PM&R, Neuro, Psych). Hell, according to this months Anesthesia Newsletter, Stanford took a radiologist into their pain fellowship. More specialties=more competition.
 
You have to remember that now pain is open to multiple specialties (PM&R, Neuro, Psych). Hell, according to this months Anesthesia Newsletter, Stanford took a radiologist into their pain fellowship. More specialties=more competition.

interesting.............
 
You have to remember that now pain is open to multiple specialties (PM&R, Neuro, Psych). Hell, according to this months Anesthesia Newsletter, Stanford took a radiologist into their pain fellowship. More specialties=more competition.

that's bull****. yet another aspect of anesthesia that's being lost to unqualified people. first CRNAs and now other specialties taking on a fellowship that's truly meant for anesthesiologists only. this whole multidisciplinary B.S. is killing me. you're gonna take a guy who sits in a dark room for 5 years and bring him into your fellowship. Stanford is a joke. i'm getting nauseated.
 
Not to start a war here but there are many reasons why other specialties are more qualified for interventional pain than anethesia is. I've spent a lot of time with several anesthesia-run pain departments and can verify this first hand. It also seems that a lot of anesthesia residents and program directors agree with me.
 
This to me is interesting, mainly because Stanford isn't an 'interventional' program.

They are very 'multidiscplinary'.

Still a great name
 
that's bull****. yet another aspect of anesthesia that's being lost to unqualified people. first CRNAs and now other specialties taking on a fellowship that's truly meant for anesthesiologists only. this whole multidisciplinary B.S. is killing me. you're gonna take a guy who sits in a dark room for 5 years and bring him into your fellowship. Stanford is a joke. i'm getting nauseated.

epidural2009,

You have a myopic and antiquated view of Pain Medicine. If you only want to manage PCAs and tunneled epidurals, then fine. But in an outpt based spine/musculoskeletal practice, it is no longer acceptable to wait for the surgeon or Neurologist to do the evaluation and work-up, and then just go through your algorithm of injections while throwing some narcotics and neurontin at the patient. This may have been OK in the 80's and early 90's, but not now.

If you want to be able to successfully effectively evaluate chronic pain patients in an outpt setting, you will need physicians from other specialties to teach you some necessary skills (Neurologists, Psychiatrists, Physiatrists).

If you believe that Pain Medicine is a real specialty/subspecialty, beyond the scope of CRNAs, then surely you agree?

As you may or may not know, interventional procedures are under attack, as are opioids for the management of chronic pain (see recent FDA regarding activity on opiate/APAP combinations). Without being versed in a multidisciplinary approach to Pain Medicine, what will you have to offer your patients?
 
You have to remember that now pain is open to multiple specialties (PM&R, Neuro, Psych). Hell, according to this months Anesthesia Newsletter, Stanford took a radiologist into their pain fellowship. More specialties=more competition.

This is not a new concept at all. Programs have trained radiologists for years including Mayo Rochester (musculoskeletal radiologist), UC San Diego (interventional neuroradiologist), and others I'm sure. UPitt is well known for being multidisciplinary and I believe they have trained internists and psychiatrists throughout the years. Hopkins and MD Anderson have trained a good number of neurologists in the past.

I think Hopkins might be training a general surgeon next year, along with an anesthesiologist, physiatrist and neurologist (myself). Diversity is necessary, and we all have certain skillsets to bring to the table and can learn from each other along the path through fellowship. This is progressive and unique.

Interestingly, very few subspecialties in medicine are "multidisciplinary". Sleep medicine comes to mind (neurology, pulmonology, psychiatry).
 
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This is not a new concept at all. Programs have trained radiologists for years including Mayo Rochester (musculoskeletal radiologist), UC San Diego (interventional neuroradiologist), and others I'm sure. UPitt is well known for being multidisciplinary and I believe they have trained internists and psychiatrists throughout the years. Hopkins and MD Anderson have trained a good number of neurologists in the past.

I think Hopkins might be training a general surgeon next year, along with an anesthesiologist, physiatrist and neurologist (myself). Diversity is necessary, and we all have certain skillsets to bring to the table and can learn from each other along the path through fellowship. This is progressive and unique.

Interestingly, very few subspecialties in medicine are "multidisciplinary". Sleep medicine comes to mind (neurology, pulmonology, psychiatry).

You do have to wonder, why is it that everything anesthesia gets involved with becomes "multidisciplinary" (ie CRNA's and pain)? I am not saying it is right or wrong, it is just interesting. When are the cardiologists going to start allowing me to do a one year fellowship in cardiac catheterization :laugh:
 
PM&R as a specialty is multidisciplinary from the get go. 🙂 working with neurosurgeons, ortho, rheum, social-case worker, therapist, nursing etc... and ofcourse the patient

You do have to wonder, why is it that everything anesthesia gets involved with becomes "multidisciplinary" (ie CRNA's and pain)? I am not saying it is right or wrong, it is just interesting. When are the cardiologists going to start allowing me to do a one year fellowship in cardiac catheterization :laugh:
 
You do have to wonder, why is it that everything anesthesia gets involved with becomes "multidisciplinary" (ie CRNA's and pain)? I am not saying it is right or wrong, it is just interesting. When are the cardiologists going to start allowing me to do a one year fellowship in cardiac catheterization :laugh:

I think the CRNA thing (nurses with training in anesthesia) might be a little different than the pain situation (physicians with training in pain). I don't think this phenomenon is exclusive to anesthesia, either. I imagine the radiologists have asked the same question. Pain happens to be multifaceted just by its nature, and logically requires a multidisciplinary approach. I would like to think that anesthesiologists had an open mind that led to this idea.
 
You do have to wonder, why is it that everything anesthesia gets involved with becomes "multidisciplinary" (ie CRNA's and pain)? I am not saying it is right or wrong, it is just interesting. When are the cardiologists going to start allowing me to do a one year fellowship in cardiac catheterization :laugh:

I've always attributed it to the history of the field having roots in *BOTH* medicine and nursing. Didn't nurses and nuns used to administer ether in the 1800's?
 
When are the cardiologists going to start allowing me to do a one year fellowship in cardiac catheterization :laugh:


On the other hand, you learn to perform/interpret TEEs in a Cardiac Anethesia fellowship, and possibly even during residency, right?
 
On the other hand, you learn to perform/interpret TEEs in a Cardiac Anethesia fellowship, and possibly even during residency, right?


what does this mean? your post has no significance to this discussion. clearly this Disciple guy has no idea whats going on. it's hilarious.

Learning to perform and interpret TEE's is part of the evolution of cardiac ANESTHESIA. by using that tool of TEE, you can alter your treatment of drips, fluids, etc.- while the patient is under GETA. this is has nothing to do with the fact that anesthesia should have never allowed other specialties into pain medicine. was intra-op TEE interpretation part of ALL cardiologists training in the past that we took over? no. cuz pain is a part of ALL anesthesia residencies that shouldn't be given away to other specialites.

btw, since you dont know what's up... "possibly even during residency".. yes anesthesiologists learn to interpret TEE's in residency. you don't have to do a heart fellowship to use TEE and do hearts in private practice.

but that brings up a good point. maybe anesthesiologists should start doing cardiac caths. that way if the coronary gets perf'd, we'd be there to take the pt to the OR and keep them stable while the CV surgeon shows up. i really like that idea actually. if anesthesiologists could do them, i'd go into CV anesthesia in a heart beat. pun intended.
 
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but that brings up a good point. maybe anesthesiologists should start doing cardiac caths. that way if the coronary gets perf'd, we'd be there to take the pt to the OR and keep them stable while the CV surgeon shows up. i really like that idea actually. if anesthesiologists could do them, i'd go into CV anesthesia in a heart beat. pun intended.

"you shut your damn mouth" (says the senior resident)
 
PLEASE PLEASE note the start of this thread was to find out what PAIN MEDICINE programs filled 2009.


there are plenty of threads devoted to that other sh.it ya'll are talking about, so stop posting unless you have the above info, or related info...

BTW, I don't give a flying f.uch about CV anesthesia/TEEs 😎

PS. It would be helpful to just delete the above posts NOT dealing with the thread topic. :idea:
 
PLEASE PLEASE note the start of this thread was to find out what PAIN MEDICINE programs filled 2009.


there are plenty of threads devoted to that other sh.it ya'll are talking about, so stop posting unless you have the above info, or related info...

BTW, I don't give a flying f.uch about CV anesthesia/TEEs 😎

PS. It would be helpful to just delete the above posts NOT dealing with the thread topic. :idea:

good point. so what's filled? i'm anxious to hear the rumors... 🙂
 
what does this mean? your post has no significance to this discussion. clearly this Disciple guy has no idea whats going on. it's hilarious.

Learning to perform and interpret TEE's is part of the evolution of cardiac ANESTHESIA. by using that tool of TEE, you can alter your treatment of drips, fluids, etc.- while the patient is under GETA. this is has nothing to do with the fact that anesthesia should have never allowed other specialties into pain medicine. was intra-op TEE interpretation part of ALL cardiologists training in the past that we took over? no. cuz pain is a part of ALL anesthesia residencies that shouldn't be given away to other specialites.

btw, since you dont know what's up... "possibly even during residency".. yes anesthesiologists learn to interpret TEE's in residency. you don't have to do a heart fellowship to use TEE and do hearts in private practice.

Maybe you should finish your residency and get some experience before posting so boldly.

You obtain training in performing and interpreting a diagnostic test where the defacto experts are Cardiologists, because it is useful to your practice of Anesthesiology, correct? (Whether the experience during residency at a particular program is sufficient vs. needing some additional time during fellowship to sharpen skills is irrelevant to this discussion).

However, if you read the above post by foxtrot, there is an implication that it is inappropriate for physicians in other specialties to be trained in interventional procedures.

You demonstrate little understanding of what Pain Medicine is. It is not simply some extension of Anesthesiology, or any other specialty for that matter. You don't think that pain management is part of the training of Neurosurgeons, Neurologists and Physiatrists? Physicians from other specialties being trained in pain fellowships would not be analogous to physicians from other specialties entering, say, a regional anesthesia fellowship and then attempting to perform blocks for surgery.

If you plan on practicing Pain Medicine, and don't think you have anything to learn from any other specialties, then by all means, do ESIs between your OR cases, run up to the floor to titrate all the PCAs and epidurals, add on an intrathecal trial after hours, turf the outpt narcotics management to the PCPs and making the diagnosis to the surgeons. You can do so in BFE where there are no pain specialists and CRNAs practice independently. You will be providing pain management services but you will not be practicing a medical specialty.

Otherwise, move into the 21st century.

Patients deserve better.
 
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Does anyone know of any programs with off-cycle (Jan 2011) positions that are still open and accepting applications? I decided late this year to pursue a pain fellowship, so missed most of the July 2010 deadlines.

If anyone has any inside info, I'd appreciate it.
 
If you search on FREIDA (AMA website) you can search for programs that start mid-year.
 
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