Programs that review after dean's letter

[curious lately]

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Not like it really matters but just curious (of course 😉), do PDs at top tier institutions that wait for the dean's letter to come out really start looking at applications only after Nov 1st? Or they do screen and/or discuss applicants prior to this? Also how do you use the dean's letter as a screening tool (it seems like you'd have to individually read each one)?

 

[Phyozo]

Not like it really matters but just curious (of course 😉), do PDs at top tier institutions that wait for the dean's letter to come out really start looking at applications only after Nov 1st? Or they do screen and/or discuss applicants prior to this? Also how do you use the dean's letter as a screening tool (it seems like you'd have to individually read each one)?

My guess it that they skim the medicine clerkship comments and look at the summary "adjective" (outstanding vs excellent vs very good) to get an idea of your rank. They might also browse through that beginning part which outlines your various ECs/research/contributions etc during med school to see if there's anything out of the ordinary.

 

[gutonc]

Not like it really matters but just curious (of course 😉), do PDs at top tier institutions that wait for the dean's letter to come out really start looking at applications only after Nov 1st? Or they do screen and/or discuss applicants prior to this? Also how do you use the dean's letter as a screening tool (it seems like you'd have to individually read each one)?

The MSPE is generally used as a final tool to determine who to invite among a group of otherwise indistinguishable applicants. The superstars have already gotten the nod and the folks on the other end of the spectrum either already have their rejections or soon will.

I have no specific knowledge of how individual programs use the MSPE but, in general, it's a combination of comments from your clerkship and SubI (since clerkship grades can be weighted more or less in favor of the Shelf exam between different programs) and the keyword as mentioned.

Incidentally, I don't know how IM in general is doing this year but I've heard from some friends in other specialties and at other IM programs that apps are up in a crazy way this year. A friend of mine responsible for reviewing Gen Surg apps this year told me they have 800 apps for 12 spots (they have gotten 300-500 over the past 4 or 5 years). I doubt many IM programs are like that but it looks like it's going to be a rough year for all involved (applicants and programs alike).

 

[wooster201106]

My guess it that they skim the medicine clerkship comments and look at the summary "adjective" (outstanding vs excellent vs very good) to get an idea of your rank. They might also browse through that beginning part which outlines your various ECs/research/contributions etc during med school to see if there's anything out of the ordinary.

Ha! Only in medicine is "very good" code for "average" and pray that you will not receive the dreadful "good" descriptor for your summary performance.

I remember reading this article entitled The "Good" Dean's Letter on Medscape a while back which was based on a study published in Academic Medicine. It was pretty interesting and showed how widely the percentile ranking of students varied for the same descriptor. I think in that study, "excellent" was used to describe student percentiles ranging from something like 3-97%. Of course, I guess that makes sense since less than a third of the med schools surveyed even used the term "good". Goes to show you how useless the MSPE is because of the lack of standardization.

I posted the link below for anyone interested in reading the article though I think you have to login to view the entire article.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/731906

 

[wooster201106]

Incidentally, I don't know how IM in general is doing this year but I've heard from some friends in other specialties and at other IM programs that apps are up in a crazy way this year. A friend of mine responsible for reviewing Gen Surg apps this year told me they have 800 apps for 12 spots (they have gotten 300-500 over the past 4 or 5 years). I doubt many IM programs are like that but it looks like it's going to be a rough year for all involved (applicants and programs alike).

That would be over a 50-150% increase in applicants. I would be surprised to find that much of a year-to-year difference even in an individual program, but you almost certainly will never see that kind of change in overall numbers of applicants.

 

[curious lately]

The MSPE is generally used as a final tool to determine who to invite among a group of otherwise indistinguishable applicants. The superstars have already gotten the nod and the folks on the other end of the spectrum either already have their rejections or soon will.

I'm specifically referring to Hopkins, MGH, BWH which specifically state that they won't look at applications until November 1st. But I think you are right, that even though they haven't sent out invites, they already have an idea of who they are going to invite and the dean's letter is more like a confirmation tool.

 

[choirboy]

My guess it that they skim the medicine clerkship comments and look at the summary "adjective" (outstanding vs excellent vs very good) to get an idea of your rank. They might also browse through that beginning part which outlines your various ECs/research/contributions etc during med school to see if there's anything out of the ordinary.

My Dean's letter says explicitly where I am in the class, is that not typical?

 

[DrVanNostran]

My Dean's letter says explicitly where I am in the class, is that not typical?

Mine does as well, it Says Mr. Last Name ranks # out of ###.

 

[Phyozo]

Mine does as well, it Says Mr. Last Name ranks # out of ###.

My school tried to convince us as MS1s that there's absolutely no rank, but of course PDs need a way to tell the top from the bottom; our MSPE uses the outstanding vs excellent vs very good system (how ARE those adjectives given and on what basis...no one will ever know...)

 

[DrVanNostran]

My school tried to convince us as MS1s that there's absolutely no rank, but of course PDs need a way to tell the top from the bottom; our MSPE uses the outstanding vs excellent vs very good system (how ARE those adjectives given and on what basis...no one will ever know...)

The Dean of our school told us that they do NOT rank us and that the only people who cared about rank is students. Lo and behold, the Dean's letter.

 

[curious lately]

My school tried to convince us as MS1s that there's absolutely no rank, but of course PDs need a way to tell the top from the bottom; our MSPE uses the outstanding vs excellent vs very good system (how ARE those adjectives given and on what basis...no one will ever know...)

From what I understand, schools that do not rank offer a cover letter with a key. Therefore it explicitly states outstanding is top 5%, superior is top 20% etc. So they will get the ranking one way or another.

 

[curious lately]

Don't mean to derail, but just wanna say that SDN is awesome. For the highly engaged applicant (or what others may call slightly obsessive), it is nice to have people that feel the same and understand you. It's even nicer for people who have completed this hurdle and are in their residencies, fellowships, careers, to take time to post and help the next generation. Thanks so much. Congrats to everyone with interviews, it is beyond gratifying to see hard work pay off! Hope that wasn't too mushy 😍

 

[ashmarj]

From what I understand, schools that do not rank offer a cover letter with a key. Therefore it explicitly states outstanding is top 5%, superior is top 20% etc. So they will get the ranking one way or another.

Additionally, the ranking is based just on third year clerkship grades. Apparently the format for the MSPE is supposed to be 'standardized', so it 'should' be the same for all school MSPE letters...at least, that's what I was told by my dean.🙄

 

[DrVanNostran]

Additionally, the ranking is based just on third year clerkship grades. Apparently the format for the MSPE is supposed to be 'standardized', so it 'should' be the same for all school MSPE letters...at least, that's what I was told by my dean.🙄

Our overall ranking (i.e. top 20%) is based on the first 3 years. We have a separate table for 3rd year.

 

[DocKSV]

My dean's letter gave my exact class rank.