Pros and Cons of Private Practice for Postdoc Year

[PsyDPlease!]

I have been offered a post doc at a private practice, but have not accepted it yet. They offer a salary and benefits, rather than fee for service. Just curious if anyone works or has completed postdoc in this setting. If so, what are the benefits and drawbacks of doing so.

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[LadyHalcyon]

I have been offered a post doc at a private practice, but have not accepted it yet. They offer a salary and benefits, rather than fee for service. Just curious if anyone works or has completed postdoc in this setting. If so, what are the benefits and drawbacks of doing so.

I did my postdoc at a private practice. The pros were I had more autonomy in terms of my schedule. I was also able practice a variety of therapy in terms of modality (couples, family, group) in addition to assessment. A downside was there were no formal didactics. However, I found the didactics to be lacking on internship so I wouldn't exactly say I missed them. At the end of the day it checked the boxes and paid me more than I made as an intern.

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[Sanman]

Salary is a good thing, the biggest issue is whether they can keep you busy. The faster you are licensed, the faster you move up the salary scale. Does the practice have a history of getting people the hours they need quickly or are people post-docs for longer than necessary to get they patient hours? Are former post-docs still working there?

 

[psych.meout]

Salary is a good thing, the biggest issue is whether they can keep you busy. The faster you are licensed, the faster you move up the salary scale. Does the practice have a history of getting people the hours they need quickly or are people post-docs for longer than necessary to get they patient hours? Are former post-docs still working there?

The flipside of that is do they have productivity expectations to guarantee that salary? Can you keep up with those expectations without getting burnt out?

 

[PsyDPlease!]

Salary is a good thing, the biggest issue is whether they can keep you busy. The faster you are licensed, the faster you move up the salary scale. Does the practice have a history of getting people the hours they need quickly or are people post-docs for longer than necessary to get they patient hours? Are former post-docs still working there?

They are established in a major city, so I don’t think their is a problem obtaining hours. As for postdocs, I am not sure but that’s a good thing to consider—thanks for the tip!

 

[PsyDPlease!]

The flipside of that is do they have productivity expectations to guarantee that salary? Can you keep up with those expectations without getting burnt out?

I believe the expectation is 25 hours a week which I heard from previous supervisors and mentors that is considered “full-time” for private practice.

 

[psych.meout]

I believe the expectation is 25 hours a week which I heard from previous supervisors and mentors that is considered “full-time” for private practice.

As in 25 hours of direct contact, billable services? Would you be able to keep up with this and all the other duties, e.g., notes, assessment reports, meetings?

Do they have support staff or do you have to do your own billing and admin?

Do you need to be at this level from the start or can you work up to it?

What happens if you aren't able to meet their benchmarks? Are there penalties or could you be fired? How would that affect post do hours?

What are they offering in terms of supervision?

Are you responsible for obtaining and maintaining your own patient caseload or do they provide those (e..g, marketing and outreach)?

Do the benefits include malpractice insurance?

Do they require you to sign a non-compete or covenant? If so, what are the terms?

 

[LadyHalcyon]

I believe the expectation is 25 hours a week which I heard from previous supervisors and mentors that is considered “full-time” for private practice.

25 hours is a lot. Have you taken the eppp? Will they give you time off to study?

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[WisNeuro]

Are you planning on a specialty board certification down the road? For some, it is much harder to pass credential review with a PP postdoc. In general, I am not in favor of PP postdocs. I don't personally know anyone who did one and was happy with the experience. By and large, they're going to make sure to get revenue out of you to make it worth it, supervision and didactics are definitely on the back burner.

 

[PsyDPlease!]

As in 25 hours of direct contact, billable services? Would you be able to keep up with this and all the other duties, e.g., notes, assessment reports, meetings? 25 hours includes direct service/testing/diagnostic assessments/supervising externs. Right now on internship in California and I see 15-18 direct clients, complete assessments, and have intensive supervision and didacts. When I think of it all, I am actually doing over 25 hours a week in direct contact, so I feel like 25 client hours a week may feel unrealistic to those that didn't have intensive internships.

Do they have support staff or do you have to do your own billing and admin? Yes-support staff

Do you need to be at this level from the start or can you work up to it? Work up to it (which wouldn't take long as they have a steady stream of referrals).

What happens if you aren't able to meet their benchmarks? Are there penalties or could you be fired? How would that affect post do hours? No penalties.

What are they offering in terms of supervision? Weekly supervision; group supervision

Are you responsible for obtaining and maintaining your own patient caseload or do they provide those (e..g, marketing and outreach)? Provide it

Do the benefits include malpractice insurance? Yes

Do they require you to sign a non-compete or covenant? If so, what are the terms? Yes. Can't do clinical services within a certain mile radus, but can teach.

Those are all great questions and hope those also help others too!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

What's the length of time before the non-compete expires, or is it just active for the postdoc year?

To me, 25 hours of direct patient care seems reasonable (our 100% clinical providers are expected to provide 30). I agree with WisNeuro that if specialty boarding is in your future plans, PP postdocs can make the initial credential review more burdensome. Other potential downsides can include decreased access to didactics and multidisciplinary/interdisciplinary care and collaboration. It can also sometimes be more difficult in the future if you need to get in touch with your postdoc supervisor(s), particularly if any of them leave the practice, so I'd get all that paperwork completed and banked as soon as you finish. Not all PP postdocs have as much in the way of protections for trainees (e.g., formal grievance procedures), so that's also a possible risk. And decreased likelihood of ability to participate in research (although not always, of course).

Pros, as far as I can think, would be they can sometimes pay more (particularly once you're licensed), you'll get exposure to the business/PP side of psychology (which can be invaluable if that's a future career goal), PP networking opportunities, and possibly more flexibility (e.g., not needing to deal with the bureaucracy of large hospital systems, such as when requesting leave, starting up new groups or other treatments, etc.).

The overall setup you've listed doesn't sound bad to me. Is all of the supervision group supervision? If so, that may be problematic for some licensing boards.

 

[WisNeuro]

If you are wanting to get board certified in neuro, I would STRONGLY advise against the PP postdoc route. It is pretty hard to meet HC criteria this route, and you will have to spend a great deal of time diligently documenting how you are doing so in order to pass credential review.

 

[PsyDWannabe]

Not to nitpick @WisNeuro but have you found that even the PP post docs that bill themselves as HG-compliant would likely still present these concerns come credential review?

If you are wanting to get board certified in neuro, I would STRONGLY advise against the PP postdoc route. It is pretty hard to meet HC criteria this route, and you will have to spend a great deal of time diligently documenting how you are doing so in order to pass credential review.

 

[WisNeuro]

Not to nitpick @WisNeuro but have you found that even the PP post docs that bill themselves as HG-compliant would likely still present these concerns come credential review?

Yes, take a look through the ABPP-CN application material. You will have to document very carefully how your postdoc met the requirements set forth, including didactics. Unless they have an agreement with another training program, most PP's do not have a good capacity to deliver didactics and the postdoc has to supplement with CE's on their own time, which still have to be carefully documented. I've only known a couple people to go this route, and the amount of extra work they had to do was pretty staggering.

 

[PsyDWannabe]

I spent hours yesterday poring over licensing and board cert requirements so this is timely and useful info, thanks! At the end of the day I believe everyone has to do what works for them considering short and long term goals but being informed is absolutely key.

 

[PsyDPlease!]

What's the length of time before the non-compete expires, or is it just active for the postdoc year?

To me, 25 hours of direct patient care seems reasonable (our 100% clinical providers are expected to provide 30). I agree with WisNeuro that if specialty boarding is in your future plans, PP postdocs can make the initial credential review more burdensome. Other potential downsides can include decreased access to didactics and multidisciplinary/interdisciplinary care and collaboration. It can also sometimes be more difficult in the future if you need to get in touch with your postdoc supervisor(s), particularly if any of them leave the practice, so I'd get all that paperwork completed and banked as soon as you finish. Not all PP postdocs have as much in the way of protections for trainees (e.g., formal grievance procedures), so that's also a possible risk. And decreased likelihood of ability to participate in research (although not always, of course).

Pros, as far as I can think, would be they can sometimes pay more (particularly once you're licensed), you'll get exposure to the business/PP side of psychology (which can be invaluable if that's a future career goal), PP networking opportunities, and possibly more flexibility (e.g., not needing to deal with the bureaucracy of large hospital systems, such as when requesting leave, starting up new groups or other treatments, etc.).

The overall setup you've listed doesn't sound bad to me. Is all of the supervision group supervision? If so, that may be problematic for some licensing boards.

it’s individual and group supervision. I also am not seeking board certification or speciality like Neuropsych. Thanks for your advice!

 

[WalterKovacs]

I had a quick question concerning PP postdocs and happened upon this thread. I know very little about obtaining a post-doc and the process so please bear with me..

If I know of a private practice psychologist with whom I have a good rapport established and is in the state which I wish to obtain licensure, is this a possible post-doc option? Or is there a more "official" type of process in which she (the licensed provider) would have to be certified or credentialed to supervise me as a post-doc?

Any advice or just general knowledge about this would be very helpful!

 

[foreverbull]

I thi

I had a quick question concerning PP postdocs and happened upon this thread. I know very little about obtaining a post-doc and the process so please bear with me..

If I know of a private practice psychologist with whom I have a good rapport established and is in the state which I wish to obtain licensure, is this a possible post-doc option? Or is there a more "official" type of process in which she (the licensed provider) would have to be certified or credentialed to supervise me as a post-doc?

Any advice or just general knowledge about this would be very helpful!

I think this varies by state, but in my state, private practice psychologists must have taken a 6-credit supervision class in the last license renewal cycle and complete a bunch of paperwork to send to the state board with your training goals, etc. (ie a contract) signed by both of you. There are also rules around them not being able to charge you for their services directly, although they can offer you a certain level of pay per client or salary.

It’s a bit of a process and more liability for a psychologist, so while it could be an option, she would have to be willing to do that work with you and for you. If she hasn’t offered this option to you and has never supervised a postdoc before, it might be a long shot for her to take a postdoc, but you can certainly ask if you feel close enough to her. It will require a fair amount of work for her on the front end to figure things out with the state board to prepare.

 

[WalterKovacs]

I thi


I think this varies by state, but in my state, private practice psychologists must have taken a 6-credit supervision class in the last license renewal cycle and complete a bunch of paperwork to send to the state board with your training goals, etc. (ie a contract) signed by both of you. There are also rules around them not being able to charge you for their services directly, although they can offer you a certain level of pay per client or salary.

It’s a bit of a process and more liability for a psychologist, so while it could be an option, she would have to be willing to do that work with you and for you. If she hasn’t offered this option to you and has never supervised a postdoc before, it might be a long shot for her to take a postdoc, but you can certainly ask if you feel close enough to her. It will require a fair amount of work for her on the front end to figure things out with the state board to prepare.

That makes sense, she's a bit older so not sure she'd be willing to go through all that, but maybe she can connect me with someone or something...Thanks so much for the response!