Pros & Cons of a Prelim in Surgery, instead of Internal Medicine..

[PrussianBlue1]

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hey guys, whats your opinion on this? I am undecided. I thought about the surgery prelim as a good background that can help me for when I do interventional radiology. Managing the surgical patient, venous cutdown, etc etc.

 

[sestamibi]

I worked extensively with a radiology resident when he was a prelim surgery resident. Acknowledged it was a difficult year but he also seemed to enjoy it. Not sure how much it will actually impact a career in IR though as it will be separated from your IR training by 4 very different years of residency.

 

[arod]

I am currently finishing an intern year in surgery before starting rads and frequently wonder if it was worth it. Specifically in regards to IR you do work with the interventionalists a lot. A few examples: They drain our post-op abdominal abscesses if possible, place cholecystostomy tubes, angio the GI bleeders and work across the table during endovascular AAA repairs. I'm also doing a research project with a few of them.
Will it give you an advantage in the future? Probably not, fellowship will do that. However, if you want to do IR you probably will be bored to tears doing IM.

But make no mistake - you will be working surgery hours and experiencing all the other pain of surgical internship.

Feel free to pm me if you have other questions.

 

[Pontifex Maximus]

Knowing what its like to be closer to suicide when your other months get rough?

 

[MasterShakeDO]

Considered it for about one nanosecond. But then I realized your chances of participating in any cutdowns are slim to none. Even categorical surgical interns barely sniff the OR to do anything meaningful. For every 2 hours of worthwhile OR time you're looking at 100 hours of floor scut.
Try to do a transitional instead. You'll get two months of surgery and see how all the other services use IR as well. You'll get all the post-op management you'll need until fellowship.

 

[fun8stuff]

hey guys, whats your opinion on this? I am undecided. I thought about the surgery prelim as a good background that can help me for when I do interventional radiology. Managing the surgical patient, venous cutdown, etc etc.

i think the only thing it would give you is a deeper appreciation for radiology...

 

[irwarrior]

I think that those who do an internship at a community surgery program , where the prelims are known to log a lot of cases and get a vast experience in lines, chest tubes, appendectomy, etc are probably in slightly better shape when it comes to IR. I personally ended up doing a prelim IM year and feel pretty comfortable admitting patients, seeing them in clinic and dealing with my referring docs. I also ran a fair number of codes as an intern and unlike many of my colleagues I do not run away from sick patients in the radiology suites. A tough internship, is not only a rite of passage, it certainly makes radiology feel like a breeze. After, a rough month in the ICU, any call in radiology paled in comparisson.

So, I think a cush transitional year is one way to go about it especially if you are thinking about doing a commodity service such as teleradiology. But, I believe a tough internship will eventually make you a better doctor and ultimately better equipped for a clinical interventional career.

 

[radbug]

I did a prelim surgery year with intent to do IR, and I did it at a community-based/university-affiliated program which treated us prelims just the same as a categorical surgery resident. I was in the OR every day - logged just as many cases as a surg resident and with the same breadth of cases - did appys, lap choles, and first assisted on ex-laps, bowel resections, colectomies, gastric bypasses and a host of other cases in vascular, cardiothoracic, and orthopedics. So not all gen surg prelim years are scutwork. Because my year was so productive and hands on I can safely say that it has not only prepared me for VIR, but has also helped me be a stronger radiology resident.

But you need to look for these types of surg prelim years. Most of them are not like this and indeed are scutwork.

 

[epekema]

I loved my surgery rotation in 3rd year and was gung-ho about doing a surgery prelim. I feel like it would prepare me more for radiology, but everyone I mention this to thinks I'm crazy. Does anyone know of any decent surgery prelims out there? I don't mind scut, but 100 hrs per week is not what I want either!

 

[dilatate]

I did a prelim surgery year with intent to do IR, and I did it at a community-based/university-affiliated program which treated us prelims just the same as a categorical surgery resident. I was in the OR every day - logged just as many cases as a surg resident and with the same breadth of cases - did appys, lap choles, and first assisted on ex-laps, bowel resections, colectomies, gastric bypasses and a host of other cases in vascular, cardiothoracic, and orthopedics. So not all gen surg prelim years are scutwork. Because my year was so productive and hands on I can safely say that it has not only prepared me for VIR, but has also helped me be a stronger radiology resident.

But you need to look for these types of surg prelim years. Most of them are not like this and indeed are scutwork.

Anyone willing to share programs that are similar to what Radbug is describing? Thanks in advance.

 

[penguin24]

Surgeons have been telling me that a prelim surgery would be a good learning opportunity for a future in rads. It sounds good, since it's the surgeons that are always in the rads rooms talking over films w/ the radiologist, as opposed to the medicine guys who i saw mainly read the reports and look at the films on their own. However, there is no doubt that prelim surgery is harder than prelim medicine/transitional.

I want to be a good radiologist, but not sure how much/if any going the 'tough route' would help me, instead of going the tough route just for the sake of it, since I'm not going into surgery. During M3 every specialty says that they're the best, maybe all this is just the surgeon's way of taking pride in their field?

 

[JKP]

im prelim is way harder.
memorize lots of esoteric facts.
admit patients up the whazzooo.
work longer hrs. surgery enforces the 80 hr work week. get out before the im's on a daily basis.
faster rounds.
not really dealing with anatomy as much as surgeons...

 

[Zweihander]

im prelim is way harder.
memorize lots of esoteric facts.
admit patients up the whazzooo.
work longer hrs. surgery enforces the 80 hr work week. get out before the im's on a daily basis.
faster rounds.
not really dealing with anatomy as much as surgeons...

"Work longer hours"? "Surgery enforces the 80 hr work week"?