Pseudo-Partner Gigs

[SitraAchra]

I am a CA3 just now hitting the interview trail for a PP job.

What I have noticed at a few groups are a position they call "like a partner track." The larger corporation that controls the respective subdivision I am interviewing for no longer offers a true partner track in the sense that you do not get any company ownership. However, they offer a 3 year pay increase which starts you at a level lower than an associate employee and ends at a level the same as a partner.

In my mind, I am unclear why I am "buying in" to a position which offers me no true ownership in the corporation. Its nice to have the offer of a larger salary, but I am not sure in 3 years this company will actually maintain its current reimbursements and payouts.

Is the smart thing to just go for the employee position since that is where we are all headed anyways? Is there a modification to the contract for this "partner" gig to make so that I can be reimbursed the difference between an employee salary and my lower "partner" salary if the whole thing goes south?

I am confused to this position I am seeing and hearing about since companies are likely scared of how the new healthcare law will affect us. Any advice from those already out there?

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[aneftp]

Proceed at your own risk.

They may pay u like a partner at the end of 3 years. Yet they can choose to let u go cause they don't feel like paying u partner money after 3 years.

Churn churn churn baby. Until the next round of fresh blood graduates from residency and the same group with offer fresh blood the same deal with partner money promised at the end of the rainbow.

Do yourself a favor. Put a nice poison proposition in the contract. Have provision that if you don't make "partner" money after 3 years or if they let you go before the 3 years is up or sell out that they pay your tail malpractice. At least that will save you a little bit of money with your tail savings so you can move one.

If they say no, alarm bells should ring. If group is under paying you with pot of gold at the end and not willing to even give up paying tail which amounts to $5000-20000 after 3 years than they aren't serious about paying you like a partner.

In that case you may consider not joining or asking to be paid A 1099 income which offers more tax advantages since their w2 benefits package probably sucks to began with.

I've seen this version of the movie so many times from former co workers and friends of friends.

Proceed with caution.

 

[nimbus]

This is the worst possible combination.....low starting pay "partnership track" with no hope of partnership in the end. Don't see the point in taking this unless you are geographically restricted to an area where this is the only option.

 

[SitraAchra]

I wonder if this is becoming a more common thing since the market as a whole is tighter. For clarification, the subdivisions I looked at are in Dallas under Pinnacle.

 

[BLADEMDA]

I wonder if this is becoming a more common thing since the market as a whole is tighter. For clarification, the subdivisions I looked at are in Dallas under Pinnacle.

Sounds terrible.

 

[deleted126335]

One is either an owner or a temporary employee. Even if you make the same dollars as a partner, with the same call and vacation, you are still the partner's employee. This dynamic affects everything-case assignments, the way that CRNAs treat you vs. the partner. Surgeons and hospital administrators are also aware of the dynamic. In addition to security, this also eats at one's self esteem. It may be a decent gig in this market, but go in eyes open.

 

[BLADEMDA]

So you go through a 3 year track to earn the same as a partner. In year 4 pinnacle merges with a large AMC. The partners get paid for the merger and you get nothing. Nada. Zilch. Then all providers work for the new employer as employees being paid the same salary.

I see this as a 50/50 or better scenario over the next 5 years.

 

[SitraAchra]

Precisely what concerns me Blade. I just wanted to get some seasoned eyes on this proposition to make sure I'm not going crazy here. I can't beleive this is what the job market is coming to. Thankfully it's early on in the cycle, I have a strong application, and I am not super-limited by geography (just need to stay in Texas).

For the others in my position who are likely going to join groups that will get eaten up by an AMC or become another ACO during or immediately after the "buy-in" phase of the fake-partner track, is the way to go just employee and take as much call from the old timers as we can? Also known as the make hay while the sun is shining plan?

That seems to be the only secure option to make any money before the specialty as a whole hits the fan. Makes me upset that I am finishing residency in such a sh*tty position, thankfully I still genuinely enjoy doing anesthesia and wouldn't want to do anything else.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Do you remember this saying: "show me the money Jerry". Unless it is a real partnership track the best course of action is simply to get the highest paying job possible on day 1 (IMHO).

The real world is ugly. They will shake your hand and smile into your eyes then stick it up your arse.
If isn't in the Contract then it doesn't exist.

 

[aneftp]

Do you remember this saying: "show me the money Jerry". Unless it is a real partnership track the best course of action is simply to get the highest paying job possible on day 1 (IMHO).

The real world is ugly. They will shake your hand and smile into your eyes then stick it up your arse.
If isn't in the Contract then it doesn't exist.

Agreed. Take the job that pays the best. Forget a partnership track longer than one year in this job market.

2 year partnership track maybe but better have them pay ur tail in event of a buyou/sellout (if they balk...that tells you they are already thinking selling out).

Or just stay in academics (usually at your home institution) for a year and see if market improves. Academia isn't bad these days especially if you got a family and looking at benefits and work/balance lifestyle.

 

[Scotty_G]

Will academics become harder to get in the future? I feel like more people will leave the private practice worlds as things change. Perhaps more lucrative too?!?! heh

 

[deleted126335]

Will academics become harder to get in the future? I feel like more people will leave the private practice worlds as things change. Perhaps more lucrative too?!?! heh

I know nothing about the academic job market now, but during the bad nineties at least one name brand program had the "academic/faculty" track and the "clinical/worker bee" track for recent grads who couldn't find anythng to their taste who stuck around awhile before moving on.
Money is tight everywhere. Academics are not immune to supply and demand.

 

[norwood]

Will academics become harder to get in the future? I feel like more people will leave the private practice worlds as things change. Perhaps more lucrative too?!?! heh

Anything's possible, but personally I don't really see it happening.

I personally find academic work rewarding and am trying to get back to it, but teaching residents and med students wouldn't have appealed to most of the guys I've known in PP. It's not that they couldn't do it, just that it isn't their cup of tea.

 

[sevoflurane]

What's a pseudo-partner?

Either you are, or you're not. If you're not, you're the first to go.

 

[sevoflurane]

Pseudo-partner reaks of greed and non-transparency.

 

[aneftp]

What's a pseudo-partner?

Either you are, or you're not. If you're not, you're the first to go.

Pseudo partner means true partner money with no voting rights and easy termination. So they may pay u partner money for a year until they find some new guy for cheaper.

 

[sevoflurane]

Pseudo partner means true partner money with no voting rights and easy termination. So they may pay u partner money for a year until they find some new guy for cheaper.

The OP would not be getting partner money. 😉

He essentially would be doing a 3 year partnership tract, putting money into other "partners" pockets and in the end, he would not be making partner...? What if volume goes down or they are just ready for new chum as you say?

In my mind, you are a partner, or you are not: Pseudo-partner is a fallacy and a way certain groups can really mess with someones life.

Wouldn't catch me dead in that situation and I don't advise it if you are moving a family around the country for a pseudo-partner position.

 

[sleepallday]

I am a CA3 just now hitting the interview trail for a PP job.

What I have noticed at a few groups are a position they call "like a partner track." The larger corporation that controls the respective subdivision I am interviewing for no longer offers a true partner track in the sense that you do not get any company ownership. However, they offer a 3 year pay increase which starts you at a level lower than an associate employee and ends at a level the same as a partner.

In my mind, I am unclear why I am "buying in" to a position which offers me no true ownership in the corporation. Its nice to have the offer of a larger salary, but I am not sure in 3 years this company will actually maintain its current reimbursements and payouts.

Is the smart thing to just go for the employee position since that is where we are all headed anyways? Is there a modification to the contract for this "partner" gig to make so that I can be reimbursed the difference between an employee salary and my lower "partner" salary if the whole thing goes south?

I am confused to this position I am seeing and hearing about since companies are likely scared of how the new healthcare law will affect us. Any advice from those already out there?

After you become "a partner", will you be eligible for profit-sharing? Answering this question will determine how much of a partner you really are.

 

[cchoukal]

Will academics become harder to get in the future? I feel like more people will leave the private practice worlds as things change. Perhaps more lucrative too?!?! heh

There's this idea that academics are immune to market forces. We derive our operating budget from clinical revenue and hospital subsidies, just like the private guys. Worse, in a sense, because teaching hospitals tend to have higher than average rates of medicare/medicaid. There is SOME indirect money from grants, but this is a small amount and most departments have little or no grant funding.

Academics are already hard. We have way more applicants than we have jobs for.

 

[IlDestriero]

Will academics become harder to get in the future? I feel like more people will leave the private practice worlds as things change.

Academics are already hard. We have way more applicants than we have jobs for.

True. We run lean and mean and have many applicants for any available positions, and that's just the ones we bother to invite for an interview, I'm sure many more don't survive the initial screening. Academics has two advantages in this market. We are essentially impossible to replace without abandoning the academic mission and if things get ugly, we can increase our clinical effort and adjust our staffing to be more profitable.

 

[aneftp]

The OP would not be getting partner money. 😉

He essentially would be doing a 3 year partnership tract, putting money into other "partners" pockets and in the end, he would not be making partner...? What if volume goes down or they are just ready for new chum as you say?

In my mind, you are a partner, or you are not: Pseudo-partner is a fallacy and a way certain groups can really mess with someones life.

Wouldn't catch me dead in that situation and I don't advise it if you are moving a family around the country for a pseudo-partner position.

Actually this is exactly what happened to my sister a few years ago. 5 year partnership track. They didn't make her and this other guy partner but they both got partner money (variable bonus monthly checks, same as other full partners.

Group was in a bind cause that was in the contract and hadn't hired anyone else new. It made for a very awkward situation. Kind of a lame duck. Since both of them knew they have no voting rights and 90 day termination clause at anytime. They both knew group would try to hire someone new as soon as they can.

My sister left 10 months later. Other guy left at 6 months.

 

[Jay K]

Is the smart thing to just go for the employee position since that is where we are all headed anyways?

No, you do not have a crystal ball. How do you know we're all headed that ways and in what time frame? Wouldn't you rather make partner money for 10yrs, 15yrs, 20yrs before that occurs? Being an employee seldom puts you in a strong position for negotiation.

Is there a modification to the contract for this "partner" gig to make so that I can be reimbursed the difference between an employee salary and my lower "partner" salary if the whole thing goes south?

Why would they allow that? Ask yourself if you're that much stronger or attractive of an applicant vs the others graduating from the plethora of Texas programs and/or those now returning to TX after training.

I am confused to this position I am seeing and hearing about since companies are likely scared of how the new healthcare law will affect us. Any advice from those already out there?

As others have suggested, take a job that offers immediate (or <1yr) partnership with the highest level of compensation, benefits and vacation time, preferably in a locale with a low cost of living.

Bank that FU money for the day when you won't have a choice.

Don't limit yourself geographically (TX) to find that first ideal job.