PSF=worthless

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LADoc00

Gen X, the last great generation
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Is this like yesterday's news or do people not know about this:
Even though the ABP no longer gives credit for post-sophomore fellowships, can autopsies done during such a fellowship count toward the certification requirement of 50 autopsies?

No. Since no credit is awarded for post-sophomore fellowships, activities performed during this time (including autopsies) cannot be used to satisfy numerical training requirements.

From the ABP website. This would effectively nullify post sophs, right? Did they all close down, and if so why the hell did UCSFbound do one?
 
This horse has been beaten to death. I've explained repeatedly why I did do one. Many people have asked me if I would do one again had I known that I would end up in path, and the answer is no. Dont you have some money-making scam to cook up (that I could get in on)?
 
This horse has been beaten to death. I've explained repeatedly why I did do one. Many people have asked me if I would do one again had I known that I would end up in path, and the answer is no. Dont you have some money-making scam to cook up (that I could get in on)?

Dude, you are a tad sensitive I c..no offense, was just curious as to whether I stumbled onto some actual news.

And yes I am cooking up a money making scam, I got 2 more trays of bigs to do, then a clin lab conference, then an afternoon of scam cooking, more simmering on low heat at the moment tho.

PS-Why the hell would you do one if you werent going into path? Like as a pad for a potential dermatology residency app? Im still not getting it.
 
PS-Why the hell would you do one if you werent going into path? Like as a pad for a potential dermatology residency app? Im still not getting it.

Let it go man... Clearly UCSF is pretty much saying it was a mistake, but he has to internally justify it... :meanie:
And yeah now PSF are pretty useless...


On a side note.
LADoc00
Location: The Elven Forest

You get pulled back in man?
Does the soon to be ex-Dr. Girlfriend, sorry I mean LADoc ex-GF know yet?

:laugh: :meanie:
 
Dude, you are a tad sensitive I c..no offense, was just curious as to whether I stumbled onto some actual news.

And yes I am cooking up a money making scam, I got 2 more trays of bigs to do, then a clin lab conference, then an afternoon of scam cooking, more simmering on low heat at the moment tho.

PS-Why the hell would you do one if you werent going into path? Like as a pad for a potential dermatology residency app? Im still not getting it.

i did some undergrad research at university of iowa and i met a med student who did a post-sophomore fellowship so that he would get longer to study for the boards. he had no interest in path whatsoever.
 
Dude, you are a tad sensitive I c..no offense, was just curious as to whether I stumbled onto some actual news.

And yes I am cooking up a money making scam, I got 2 more trays of bigs to do, then a clin lab conference, then an afternoon of scam cooking, more simmering on low heat at the moment tho.

PS-Why the hell would you do one if you werent going into path? Like as a pad for a potential dermatology residency app? Im still not getting it.

I PM'd you.
PS- let me know about that scam.
 
Let it go man... Clearly UCSF is pretty much saying it was a mistake, but he has to internally justify it... :meanie:
And yeah now PSF are pretty useless...
:

If there was a middle finger icon, I'd be using it right now. :laugh:
 
If there was a middle finger icon, I'd be using it right now. :laugh:

I think your avatar covers that pretty well. :meanie:
👍 :horns:
Neither of those do it.. I like the horns that doesn't used enough.
 
Okay...bad idea thread I see.

Let the anger go...let it go...

On a side note, anyone doing anything for Oktoberfest? I may need to make the customary run into the city and do some partying.
 
Is this like yesterday's news or do people not know about this:


From the ABP website. This would effectively nullify post sophs, right? Did they all close down, and if so why the hell did UCSFbound do one?

question for you LADoc....do u have to be an absolute genius in the first two years of med schl to make great money in Path while workig 45 hrs a week (great meaning 250k)?
 
question for you LADoc....do u have to be an absolute genius in the first two years of med schl to make great money in Path while workig 45 hrs a week (great meaning 250k)?

HUH? Are you serious??? No, in fact the highest IQ people are ALWAYS the ones that get screwed. Yes you can be too smart for your own good. I spent years attempting to dumb myself down after an abortive MD/PhD run, drinking mad amounts of alcohol, partying and trying to generally not give a rat's ass. Its working, thankfully.

Anecdote 1: I knew a guy who was rejected from every single med school he applied to the first go around. Partied nonstop in undergrad, had THE hottest GFs and generally made the rest of the premeds look like social ******s. Second year he applied, he smoozed like no other. Eventually graduated from a top school, did a highly competitive residency from a top program and last year made 1.1 million after overhead and expenses....he got a combined 25..25!! on the MCATs...

Friend #2 got a 37 on MCATs and a 4.0 undergrad GPA, full ride to UCSF. Was a social **** and pissed off the faculty, although he was a genius (literally) matched at one of the worst programs in Cali....the guy had to join the flipping ARMY.

Listen to me know and believe me later: There more of an INVERSE correlation between grades in medical school and pathology earnings than there is a positive one.
 
HUH? Are you serious??? No, in fact the highest IQ people are ALWAYS the ones that get screwed. Yes you can be too smart for your own good. I spent years attempting to dumb myself down after an abortive MD/PhD run, drinking mad amounts of alcohol, partying and trying to generally not give a rat's ass. Its working, thankfully.

Anecdote 1: I knew a guy who was rejected from every single med school he applied to the first go around. Partied nonstop in undergrad, had THE hottest GFs and generally made the rest of the premeds look like social ******s. Second year he applied, he smoozed like no other. Eventually graduated from a top school, did a highly competitive residency from a top program and last year made 1.1 million after overhead and expenses....he got a combined 25..25!! on the MCATs...

Friend #2 got a 37 on MCATs and a 4.0 undergrad GPA, full ride to UCSF. Was a social **** and pissed off the faculty, although he was a genius (literally) matched at one of the worst programs in Cali....the guy had to join the flipping ARMY.

Listen to me know and believe me later: There more of an INVERSE correlation between grades in medical school and pathology earnings than there is a positive one.

http://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Mind-Ph-D-Thomas-Stanley/dp/0740756621

This same argument is made in 'The Millionaire Mind' by Thomas Stanely. He claims that there is no correlation between grades in school and being a millionaire.
 
HUH? Are you serious??? No, in fact the highest IQ people are ALWAYS the ones that get screwed. Yes you can be too smart for your own good. I spent years attempting to dumb myself down after an abortive MD/PhD run, drinking mad amounts of alcohol, partying and trying to generally not give a rat's ass. Its working, thankfully.

Anecdote 1: I knew a guy who was rejected from every single med school he applied to the first go around. Partied nonstop in undergrad, had THE hottest GFs and generally made the rest of the premeds look like social ******s. Second year he applied, he smoozed like no other. Eventually graduated from a top school, did a highly competitive residency from a top program and last year made 1.1 million after overhead and expenses....he got a combined 25..25!! on the MCATs...

Friend #2 got a 37 on MCATs and a 4.0 undergrad GPA, full ride to UCSF. Was a social **** and pissed off the faculty, although he was a genius (literally) matched at one of the worst programs in Cali....the guy had to join the flipping ARMY.

Listen to me know and believe me later: There more of an INVERSE correlation between grades in medical school and pathology earnings than there is a positive one.


Thank God i think...

what about the people who are more socially inclined, but work their ass off to get below mediocre grades.

i suppose there is no correlation....Path seems like a cool field......45 hr work week and good money and lots of r and r time.

i like u're business mind la doc.....i've had many similiar ideas.
 
Okay...bad idea thread I see.

Let the anger go...let it go...

On a side note, anyone doing anything for Oktoberfest? I may need to make the customary run into the city and do some partying.

into the city....HAHA...where are you!...lol

Beer....ice cold beer and lots of it.
 
HUH? Are you serious??? No, in fact the highest IQ people are ALWAYS the ones that get screwed. Yes you can be too smart for your own good. I spent years attempting to dumb myself down after an abortive MD/PhD run, drinking mad amounts of alcohol, partying and trying to generally not give a rat's ass. Its working, thankfully.

Anecdote 1: I knew a guy who was rejected from every single med school he applied to the first go around. Partied nonstop in undergrad, had THE hottest GFs and generally made the rest of the premeds look like social ******s. Second year he applied, he smoozed like no other. Eventually graduated from a top school, did a highly competitive residency from a top program and last year made 1.1 million after overhead and expenses....he got a combined 25..25!! on the MCATs...

Friend #2 got a 37 on MCATs and a 4.0 undergrad GPA, full ride to UCSF. Was a social **** and pissed off the faculty, although he was a genius (literally) matched at one of the worst programs in Cali....the guy had to join the flipping ARMY.

Listen to me know and believe me later: There more of an INVERSE correlation between grades in medical school and pathology earnings than there is a positive one.


Hold up a sec...u're friend made 1.1 mill in Pathology!? Off of business ventures or his Path practice?
 
Hold up a sec...u're friend made 1.1 mill in Pathology!? Off of business ventures or his Path practice?

No, he made 1.1 opening up a subspec surgery office south of LA. That was first year too AND he didnt buyin to someone's else practice, he started fresh. The compensation is usually all up from there when you do that.

But...you could do it with path as well. My prelim biz plan is looking like gross income of around $100,000 to $150,000+ per month. And I have no employees except myself. Hopefully I will be fully operational in less than a year.
 
PSFs are only worthless if you look at it from the perspective of time and money spent. From this perspective, they are worthless. And if you know you are going into pathology, they are probably not that helpful in that you will learn everything again in residency anyway. You may look smarter than your other first year colleagues for a couple of months, but who gives a **** about that?

For some though, it can be an educational year worth pursuing. I know a Gyn-onc surgeon who did one and he said it was a great year and taught him lessons he still uses today. So I think it's individual. But you have to ask yourself why you are doing it. If the answer is any of the following:

1) To make my resume better
2) To get better at pathology before residency
3) To take a year off to decide what the hell to do or to postpone the inevitable

then STOP and reevaluate.
 
i did some undergrad research at university of iowa and i met a med student who did a post-sophomore fellowship so that he would get longer to study for the boards. he had no interest in path whatsoever.

I know someone who failed step 1 and couldn't go onto 3rd year. So the person did a PSF instead. Eventually passed boards. Then finished med school. Then the person ends up in a derm residency...did one month of dermpath, finished the dermpath board exam in a mere record-breaking 2 hours, passed it with flying colors (scoring in the 4000th percentile) and then proceeded to land a job where the work hours on a given week never exceeds 25 hours and makes $100 billion per month. Mad cash. OK, I made up the last part.
 
http://www.amazon.com/Millionaire-Mind-Ph-D-Thomas-Stanley/dp/0740756621

This same argument is made in 'The Millionaire Mind' by Thomas Stanely. He claims that there is no correlation between grades in school and being a millionaire.

Simple experiment that is tried, tested and true! When you go to your high school or college reunion do a mental check of "where are they now" to see the fate of your class' top ten. From fat former cheerleaders, drunken ex-homecoming queens to felon valedictorians (maybe this was just my school), but anyway....it makes you and all the other average joes feel all warm and fuzzy inside to be a success.
 
Simple experiment that is tried, tested and true! When you go to your high school or college reunion do a mental check of "where are they now" to see the fate of your class' top ten. From fat former cheerleaders, drunken ex-homecoming queens to felon valedictorians (maybe this was just my school), but anyway....it makes you and all the other average joes feel all warm and fuzzy inside to be a success.

my high school's top 10 was filled with the people who took all the teacher assistant, art, music, shop, theater, etc classes. 4 of the 6 girls are pregnant college dropouts living in a trailer. no joke. lol.
 
what's a PSF?

well, i'll just keep pluggin and see what happens.
 
Since there are people on the fence about the PSF, and I was one of them a little less than a year ago, I thought I'd weigh in:


If you are certain that you will be applying for a residency in pathology, then the PSF can be construed as an "extra year" of work for which you will receive no academic credit and just enough salary to cover living expenses. It's one more year that you will have to weather on the road to actual money and autonomy. You will likely accrue a larger debt during medical school by virtue of having a higher tuition for your third and forth years than that which was charged your classmates who moved on without you.

That's sort of the unofficial PSF-program disclaimer.


Every interested medical student has his or her reasons for pursuing a PSF and if the aforementioned drawbacks don't discourage you, then by all means apply! The interview process alone was excellent practice for residency interviews and provided me with significant insight into the different programs and their faculties.


This summer and fall have been good to me. I enjoy working (much more than I enjoy being in school and it feels good to have a break) and I have found a job that I can really appreciate. I've found a program that does a good job of balancing anatomic and clinical pathology (we actually stay busy on many of the latter rotations) and offers me as much responsibility as I desire, which may help me make an informed decision with respect to what I will look for in a residency program. I am also supplementing my knowledge for almost any other field of medicine that I could possibly pursue (most likely path, but it sure wouldn't hurt to be a surgeon with a year of path residency under his or her belt).

Another benefit of participating in such a fellowship is that you can apply to multiple programs and likely choose where you train for a year. If you're serious about committing to a PSF, you may essentially audition the residency of your choice. I chose a program with a great reputation, and one a distance away from where I attend medical school. I have enjoyed my new environment, both inside and outside of the hospital, and I have worked beside and gathered the insight of some amazingly gifted and talented people.

The amount of work varies. The CP rotations are lighter than AP rotations as anticipated, but only a couple of them are reputed to be a vacation; and for those, I am (fingers crossed) going to piece together a small project that could potentially lead to a poster or paper.

Above all, I like path and I wanted to see what grossing, frozens, immunohistochemistry, and sign-out were all about. If years down the road, I become a SHRINK and all of this year's post sophomore fellowship boils down to an intriguing experience with some fond memories and a side-knowledge of pathology, then I will be very happy. I live comfortably on my stipend and have more down-time than I can remember having in the past two years. I'm also a nerd and enjoy learning path for the sake of learning path. I wish someone would pay me for a year to explore my other fascinations and interests! While I certainly do not come from money, I'm only gonna get to live once and this is something I want to do.

Not sure if completing a program like this will make me look better or worse on paper. If anything, I'll know what questions to ask at interviews and will have a good feel for what I'm getting into. I'm not worried about my grades and test scores. I'm happy with them. I'm not here to remediate any blemishes on my transcript, but I wouldn't exactly discourage anyone serious about this field from doing a PSF to beef up their knowledge of path and to fill in the first and second-year gaps. Second year path barely gets you through the door here. I'd be dead in the water if I hadn't studied very hard last year.

For people determined to apply for the PSF, I recommend applying around to see what different programs are offering in terms of responsibility, exposure to AP and CP (and the depth and quality of the CP exposure they offer - if you are not set on an AP only program), PAY (unless you're made of money), other benefits (health, dental, free meals, education fund, travel fund, etc.), and by all means get in contact with current and previous fellows. Every program has a different flavor and a different crew. Some programs emphasize research, and will put you in a lab for half of the year, which might be a waste if you're trying to figure out if diagnostic pathology is for you. Some programs are completely AP (has its pluses and minuses depending on your projected career goals) and other programs offer CP rotations that could be run by mindless zombies (you could do a project or veg-out, but again you're wasting time and limiting your exposure to the meat and potatoes... well, maybe just the meat of pathology).

I hope this is helpful for people deciding whether or not to apply for the post sophomore fellowship. It may very well be worthless to many of those who contemplate spending a year at such a program, especially if they are dead-set on pathology and want to get med school the hell over with... but this year is worth a lot to me.

No regrets.
 
I did a PSF. Spent a large part of it screwing around, going to concerts, staying up late, and sleeping with my girlfriend. Towards the end, I was surfing the net every day, and forgot everything I learned withing the first few months of my MS3 year. I did write a Check sample though, which looked good on the resume and got me into my #1 residency choice.

Halfway through my PSF I found out that it wouldn't count for my year of residency. While I was gone, tuition for my med school alone went up 17%.

And I still consider it the best choice I made during med school.
 
I did a PSF. Spent a large part of it screwing around, going to concerts, staying up late, and sleeping with my girlfriend. Towards the end, I was surfing the net every day, and forgot everything I learned withing the first few months of my MS3 year. I did write a Check sample though, which looked good on the resume and got me into my #1 residency choice.

Halfway through my PSF I found out that it wouldn't count for my year of residency. While I was gone, tuition for my med school alone went up 17%.

And I still consider it the best choice I made during med school.


Cool.

What's a check sample? Is that like a case report?
 
i did some undergrad research at university of iowa and i met a med student who did a post-sophomore fellowship so that he would get longer to study for the boards. he had no interest in path whatsoever.

I hadn't thought of that as a stratgy for passing med school
 
A friend of mine who is now a psych resident did the PSF route. It helped her decide that path wasn't for her
 
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