PSLF changes under Trump?

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Elle928

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Does anyone know how the new administration might affect Public Service Loan Forgiveness? A quick google search brings up some articles about how Trump may want to get rid of PSLF completely, but I'm not sure how accurate/reliable those articles are.

And if he does decide to get rid of it, how will that affected people already enrolled in the program?
 
You are going to have to go thru this every 4 years for the next 20 years..lol

The funny thing is Obama offered to cap forgiveness like at 59 k but the republicans turned it down probably because they figure they will get a better deal later on.

Personally, I think any changes will be grandfathered in. He may make it harder by making your hospital apply for the program and making sure there is a need for it.


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I don't think a Republican Congress and a Republic executive branch will make it easy for doctors and pharmacists to rid themselves of six-figure debts. Just look at the MD forums at all the MDs with 300-500k in loans that used 5 plus years of residency towards their 10-year payoff requirement.

Not sure what they legally can do, but maybe they will try to find a way to force those people to be on 25 year IBR instead of PSLF? Probably won't be that easy to do, but if they control the judicial branch too then good luck stopping them. I never applied to PSLF for these very reasons; there is no free lunch with people like Trump.
 
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This was brought up at a meeting this morning with the PTT representatives. My takeaway was that civil service won't need to worry about it. And this sort of policy is not statutory, its regulatory. So, it'll be more what the mandarins at DoE are going to do rather than Trump and the Republican legislature will do (although it is in their power to do so, I doubt this is a major priority for them). It's already on the drafting table though for limiting PSLF, both the Democratic and the Republican proposals wants to limit it to civil service and outright charities rather than non-profits.

And no, that's really not the plan, pfft. The more interesting matter on the table is CMS entitlement reform, where I do expect that reimbursements will be overall cut as the current situation is not actuarially supportable. That's going to take more of a bite out of you than PSLF if you think about the difficulty holding a job in the future.

It'll be interesting for us who have been the recipients of the government largesse to see what it is like to be without government support.
 
This was brought up at a meeting this morning with the PTT representatives. My takeaway was that civil service won't need to worry about it. And this sort of policy is not statutory, its regulatory. So, it'll be more what the mandarins at DoE are going to do rather than Trump and the Republican legislature will do (although it is in their power to do so, I doubt this is a major priority for them). It's already on the drafting table though for limiting PSLF, both the Democratic and the Republican proposals wants to limit it to civil service and outright charities rather than non-profits.

And no, that's really not the plan, pfft. The more interesting matter on the table is CMS entitlement reform, where I do expect that reimbursements will be overall cut as the current situation is not actuarially supportable. That's going to take more of a bite out of you than PSLF if you think about the difficulty holding a job in the future.

It'll be interesting for us who have been the recipients of the government largesse to see what it is like to be without government support.

Thanks! I am a govt employee so this is somewhat reassuring.
 
You are going to have to go thru this every 4 years for the next 20 years..lol

The funny thing is Obama offered to cap forgiveness like at 59 k but the republicans turned it down probably because they figure they will get a better deal later on.

Personally, I think any changes will be grandfathered in. He may make it harder by making your hospital apply for the program and making sure there is a need for it.


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I don't see them grandfather anything in - maybe those within 3 years, but not someone who has just started the program - the savings won't be seen until after that person leaves office - then they can't take credit for it.

I do think a cap on income or cap on the amount forgiven needs to be put in place - the program was set up to create a public service component - not forgive the loans of highly paid professionals.
 
Trump's policy proposal (to be taken with a grain of salt) wanted a 12.5% IBR paired with a 15 year forgiveness time frame.

This is about in line with the Marco Rubio/Warner proposal that came out a while back ("Dynamic Repayment" or something).

He was silent of PSLF but I see it prospectively getting eliminated and some version of IBR/PAYE implemented with a 15-20 year maximum timeframe.


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Don't forget he's proposing major spending stimulus and the markets have reacted sending the 10 year t-bill to 2.1% today...

I was always wondering where the spark for inflation would come from, here it is. If this comes to fruition, PSLF and loan forgiveness become moot point when you can inflate your way out of debt.


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http://www.abajournal.com/news/arti...alifications_for_public_service_loan-forgiven

"It appears that the federal government is rethinking which nonprofit employees qualify for the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program, and it may now be that the criteria has more stringent requirements."


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Dude, read the article, those were 501(c)(6) entities petitioning for status. They were denied.

501(c)(3) is enshrined in law and not subject to interpretation.

Do pharmacists even work in c6's?

EDIT: n/m that would be APhA


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Thanks! I am a govt employee so this is somewhat reassuring.
Uh, I think you failed to read the entire post. You should be worried!

The more interesting matter on the table is CMS entitlement reform, where I do expect that reimbursements will be overall cut as the current situation is not actuarially supportable. That's going to take more of a bite out of you than PSLF if you think about the difficulty holding a job in the future.
Did you not read that line I just bolded?

There is no way PSLF is gonna survive in it s current form. There are conservative lobbying groups that have been calling for it's repeal for years. Discontent against it has been simmering. With all three branches united under one party, the Republicans will find a way to cut government spending. Even if they don't outright kill PSLF, they'll just limit forgiveness to 59K (or less) or they'll just privatize government institutions so they can decrease the number of civil servants/public employees they have to account for. All of which are a Republican wet dream.
 
Uh, I think you failed to read the entire post. You should be worried!


Did you not read that line I just bolded?

There is no way PSLF is gonna survive in it s current form. There are conservative lobbying groups that have been calling for it's repeal for years. Discontent against it has been simmering. With all three branches united under one party, the Republicans will find a way to cut government spending. Even if they don't outright kill PSLF, they'll just limit forgiveness to 59K (or less) or they'll just privatize government institutions so they can decrease the number of civil servants/public employees they have to account for. All of which are a Republican wet dream.


I read it. Im not a clinical pharmacist, and i dont work in a setting where we bill/make money from insurances. So the effect on reimbursements wont really affect my position or workplace. But this is scary for all those pharmacists that work in those settings.
 
PSLF has been written into federal loan master promissory notes since 2007. It may be considered a contractual violation not to grandfather in existing debt serfs if they decide to cap forgiveness or eliminate it altogether.
 
PSLF has been written into federal loan master promissory notes since 2007. It may be considered a contractual violation not to grandfather in existing debt serfs if they decide to cap forgiveness or eliminate it altogether.

That's a connection that hasn't been established in court...and PSLF can be capped at, say, $1 and still contractually meet that clause (it never specifies a dollar amount)


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That's a connection that hasn't been established in court...and PSLF can be capped at, say, $1 and still contractually meet that clause (it never specifies a dollar amount)


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Bit more optimistic, it is forgiveness in the sense that you would think (I don't benefit personally). But also, for the civil service, the reason why it really will be forgiveness is that otherwise, there's a bunch of retroactive EDRP (Educational Debt Reduction Program) process orders that the civil service would have to immediately carry out as the justification for the application is the PSLF for us.


Uh, I think you failed to read the entire post. You should be worried!


Did you not read that line I just bolded?

There is no way PSLF is gonna survive in it s current form. There are conservative lobbying groups that have been calling for it's repeal for years. Discontent against it has been simmering. With all three branches united under one party, the Republicans will find a way to cut government spending. Even if they don't outright kill PSLF, they'll just limit forgiveness to 59K (or less) or they'll just privatize government institutions so they can decrease the number of civil servants/public employees they have to account for. All of which are a Republican wet dream.

Agreed, though I think we will eat the cost for the initial group just because it'll be cheaper than the lawsuits. But what I really agree on is they'll find some other way to hose us and keep us on the dependency train.

On the more pessimistic side, the personnel system for pharmacists has historically endured RIF (Reduction in Force). Anyone remember Cohen screwing over the rank and file military during Clinton First Term:

http://www.gao.gov/assets/160/153782.pdf

That happened to VA too if you're from that time (this is one of the issues with the way VA is funded where much of it is tied to DoD appropriations indirectly). If you *manage* to work for the civil service for 10 years, it'll work. But, I can see the Democrats (not even the Republicans as they tend not to RIF defense related matters) ordering a RIF on 8 year VA pharmacists. To be equally critical of the Republicans, I can see Trump sending a RIF order down through HHS and HUD to affect Federal Health Centers, non-uniformed health care personnel, and associated state Departments of Health just like Reagan and Bush Sr. It doesn't matter what party is in power, eventually, everyone in our line of business (inclusive of medicine and nursing) need to be worried and doing what they can to put away some sort of nest egg for when the good times come to an end. This is a shameless plug for BMBiology and Momus's standpoint that the goal is to get out of the game, because who knows how long we can dance?

By the way, privatizing VA isn't going to be cheap, I'm not afraid of that direction. No, people who are actually in the 10A and the OB office absolutely know what a budget buster that is going to be, and we're almost at the point where we're going to have to beg Congress for a Continuing Resolution to pay for the CHOICE Act as it stands as the VISNs are bankrupt. Unless Trump's team wants to spend more (or do the Vietnam experience to our current veterans), they aren't going to get their wish to privatize VA health care as everyone remembered Clinton's attempt to do that and how a bunch of hospitals were stiffed for two years.
 
What about for PHS or other active duty agencies?

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I'm currently on the PSLF program, but by the end of my 10 years will only have a balance of ~$2000 left to be forgiven, so I suppose I'll be fine either way. I know people who took out >2x what I did to finance school who are going to be very upset if this plan goes away.
 
It is a race against Trump:

"Under PSLF, the earliest you can have your debt forgiven is 10 years. Unfortunately, Trump seemed to hint that he may completely eliminate PSLF — a program where loans forgiven are not considered taxable income — perhaps if only to get everyone on the same repayment scheme."

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/11/what-are-donald-trumps-plans-for-law-school-debt/


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It is a race against Trump:

"Under PSLF, the earliest you can have your debt forgiven is 10 years. Unfortunately, Trump seemed to hint that he may completely eliminate PSLF — a program where loans forgiven are not considered taxable income — perhaps if only to get everyone on the same repayment scheme."

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/11/what-are-donald-trumps-plans-for-law-school-debt/


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Yup he wants 12.5% IBR with a 15 year forgiveness time frame...not far off from 15% IBR (10% PAYE/REPAYE) and 10 years under PSLF.

So eliminate PSLF for some and enact the above plan for everyone? I'd be on board.

I'm still bullish on changes not being retroactive, but my finances are affected by other policy issues. If he really kicks up inflation, then PSLF will be irrelevant.


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Yup he wants 12.5% IBR with a 15 year forgiveness time frame...not far off from 15% IBR (10% PAYE/REPAYE) and 10 years under PSLF.

So eliminate PSLF for some and enact the above plan for everyone? I'd be on board.

I'm still bullish on changes not being retroactive, but my finances are affected by other policy issues. If he really kicks up inflation, then PSLF will be irrelevant.


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He and the republicans may forgive undergraduate student loans but I doubt they will forgive six digit graduate student loans. How would Joe blow feel about that?


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He and the republicans may forgive undergraduate student loans but I doubt they will forgive six digit graduate student loans. How would Joe blow feel about that?


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the republicans dont care what joe blow actually feels - they only care if they can manipulate him
 
He and the republicans may forgive undergraduate student loans but I doubt they will forgive six digit graduate student loans. How would Joe blow feel about that?


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I haven't seen what you're suggesting in any policy set forth by any republican. The only person who suggested that was Obama (57k exclusion), which was promptly shot down by republicans.


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Don't take out loans you don't plan on paying back. You never know what will happen with these programs, so only take out as much as you need with the knowledge you are responsible for the debt you incurred.
 
Refi interest rate has jumped since Trump got elected.


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What about for PHS or other active duty agencies?

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We don't know. We have the question before OLC (Office of Legal Counsel) due to our Interagency Agreements, but we believe that the question will have to be dealt with by the PTT directly. My own personal guess (and it is a pure guess) is that I highly doubt there will be any changes to ones that are already on service contracts due to past OPM and MCJ rulings on changing service contracts midstream (it can happen, but it's really difficult and the government has the burden of proof on why it must be done which for money, that's not sufficient). I'm also counting on the Republicans resuming their usual behavior with respect to the DoD in terms of being ok with manpower expenditures considering the bureaucratic headache in changing the system.

Now, also remember, the Republicans have within the same group some people who are proposing (and passed their version of) reforms to the DoD retirement system to being more a contributory rather than a defined benefit plan. That's been on the books for awhile for action, and I have a feeling that they'll act on the panels recommendation this time which have implications for education as well.

http://militarypay.defense.gov/Port...ementSystemInfographic_12.9.15_FINAL3_508.pdf

Right now, the numbers work like this given a 4.5% annual return (which is the experience of most people in the TSP, our 401k):
1. If you are certain that you will NOT make a 20 year career, you should go under the new system immediately.
2. If you do intend to make it a 20 year career (or are unsure):
a. If you are enlisted and don't make it past E-5, you're still probably better off in the old system as the salary is too low to offset the contributions.
b. If you are enlisted and past E-5, the old system is still advantageous, but the new system may work if you are an aggressive investor.
c. If you are an officer and are on the staff track (which the target rank is O-5), you're better off in the old system.
d. If you make it to O-6, you will need to serve around 26-28 years to even out with the old system if you go into the new system. If you make it to O-7, and higher, the jury is out whether the old or the new works better as the length of service time and statutory maximums become a factor.

However, in ALL cases, a civil servant will do better than the DoD given equivalent service when the system is put into place in 2018 as the civil service starts higher and making SES is easier than promotion beyond O-6 and even with the 1.1% civilian vs. 2% military difference. Even if you stay a career 12 or 13 civil service, the usual salary progression is better than the military for retirement purposes (remember, those allowances don't count, just the statutory salary). That 0.5% difference is a HUGE deal as the military statutory pay is so low to begin with that the greedy think they can take advantage compared to civil service, but effectively, it's a tax on idiots in the end as no one will put away sufficiently at the junior ranks to make the compound interest worth it.
 
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