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Does anyone actually understand how this works and what a income base monthly payment would be if one hypothetically started income based pslf payments in residency?
PSLF
- Thread starter Shadowfax12
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One of the biggest reasons people were denied is they did not read the rules.
Dont rely on internet strangers to guide you on a few hundred thousand bet.
There has been a lot of recent changes with the biden administration.
You need to read and understand everything carefully which is all on their website...
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Yes, definitely read the rules. Many smart people have screwed it up... and the govt has probably screwed others who tried it also.
You have to realize how significantly this planning for PSLF limits your job options and your income, though. It is a fantastic idea for a general surgeon 5yr residency followed by vascular 2yrs or ortho 5yr followed by fellowship or interv cards or something. It is not a big deal to work at a certain type of hospital for 2-4yrs (although even those few years will have neutered income for those specialists).
In podiatry, those jobs that will meet the reqs of those programs are rarer. Most are fairly competitive. Browse the job postings on Indeed, ACFAS, APMA, etc and see how many would meet PSLF. Maybe 10% or 15% of them? You will be limited on locations. You saying "I need this job or I won't complete the program" won't get you hired. The possibility of being trapped at a crummy job is high (for any new DPM grad, but much more so for one limited to only a small fraction of jobs that meet PSLF). It will be very hard to find another job in a timely manner if you need to switch at any point since the govt ones move snail pace and a lot of other non-profit aren't much quicker. Oh, and you are talking 7 frigging years, Mr. Bigglesworth!
In podiatry, or any specialty, you are probably best leaving your options open. The income gap between PP, groups, etc versus the univ/govt/etc non-profit hospitals to meet PSLF is significant. Also, again, there is no guarantee that people trying for PSLF will have success.
"Money often costs too much."
...oh, and if you want an example of how fun it is: I worked 2yrs IHS. I took the roughly $18k they give you after a year on the job and sent it right to student loans per rules. I had filled out that paperwork a few months after starting (say 0.5yrs). When the second year came around (circa 1.5yrs), they told me my loan contract goes until 2.5yrs... and I said no, I am on a 2yr job contract.
I declined to apply for the money for the second year since they had created the mismatch between my IHS hospital contract and the IHS loan repay program requirements. They told me I am still on the hook for 2yrs from loan forgive approval (2.5yrs mark) and that I would have to pay back roughly triple the money due to penalties and blah blah. They suggested I just renew my IHS contract at that facility or change to another IHS.
So, I don't consider myself a stupid individual, but I got $18k loan assist, and I will now end up owing them about $54k apparently. Instead of being about $36k less in debt over the 2yrs, I will apparently be that much MORE in debt. No joke. Can't wait. I was told I could appeal once I enter "default," but nobody ever wins the appeals. I will appeal and I will lose, and I still win in life overall... since I might make twice as much in PP group at the next gig. Fun stuff that we try just to get out of debt, huh?
You have to realize how significantly this planning for PSLF limits your job options and your income, though. It is a fantastic idea for a general surgeon 5yr residency followed by vascular 2yrs or ortho 5yr followed by fellowship or interv cards or something. It is not a big deal to work at a certain type of hospital for 2-4yrs (although even those few years will have neutered income for those specialists).
In podiatry, those jobs that will meet the reqs of those programs are rarer. Most are fairly competitive. Browse the job postings on Indeed, ACFAS, APMA, etc and see how many would meet PSLF. Maybe 10% or 15% of them? You will be limited on locations. You saying "I need this job or I won't complete the program" won't get you hired. The possibility of being trapped at a crummy job is high (for any new DPM grad, but much more so for one limited to only a small fraction of jobs that meet PSLF). It will be very hard to find another job in a timely manner if you need to switch at any point since the govt ones move snail pace and a lot of other non-profit aren't much quicker. Oh, and you are talking 7 frigging years, Mr. Bigglesworth!
In podiatry, or any specialty, you are probably best leaving your options open. The income gap between PP, groups, etc versus the univ/govt/etc non-profit hospitals to meet PSLF is significant. Also, again, there is no guarantee that people trying for PSLF will have success.
"Money often costs too much."
...oh, and if you want an example of how fun it is: I worked 2yrs IHS. I took the roughly $18k they give you after a year on the job and sent it right to student loans per rules. I had filled out that paperwork a few months after starting (say 0.5yrs). When the second year came around (circa 1.5yrs), they told me my loan contract goes until 2.5yrs... and I said no, I am on a 2yr job contract.
I declined to apply for the money for the second year since they had created the mismatch between my IHS hospital contract and the IHS loan repay program requirements. They told me I am still on the hook for 2yrs from loan forgive approval (2.5yrs mark) and that I would have to pay back roughly triple the money due to penalties and blah blah. They suggested I just renew my IHS contract at that facility or change to another IHS.
So, I don't consider myself a stupid individual, but I got $18k loan assist, and I will now end up owing them about $54k apparently. Instead of being about $36k less in debt over the 2yrs, I will apparently be that much MORE in debt. No joke. Can't wait. I was told I could appeal once I enter "default," but nobody ever wins the appeals. I will appeal and I will lose, and I still win in life overall... since I might make twice as much in PP group at the next gig. Fun stuff that we try just to get out of debt, huh?
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I came off as kind of an a$$ with my post.
But still. There was an article that 90+% of people were denied PSLF.
But when you break it down 90+% didnt meet the requirements because.... they... didnt... read... the... rules...
The rules are pretty straight forward. I know because i read them. I considered it as I was going to take a position that would qualify but decided to take another position instead. I have not read them since Biden changed things recently.
Ive mentioned the white coat investor a few times in the last 48hrs (other thread...) and I sound like a fanboy. But he does have good advice.
He suggested if you do go for PSLF and you pay X% of your monthly income towards PSLF then you should save the extra money you would have paid towards your loan for a standard 10 year loan payoff. Then at 10 years if you dont get PSLF (because government is super trustworthy...) you have the money to pay it off minus the interest. That makes total sense to me and everyone that does PSLF should be doing that. If it works you have loans gone and a lump sum of money. If it doesnt... well you still have no loans at 10 years (minus interest).
Or bet it all on crypto like Dtrack and cutswithfury and pay them off early.
But still. There was an article that 90+% of people were denied PSLF.
But when you break it down 90+% didnt meet the requirements because.... they... didnt... read... the... rules...
The rules are pretty straight forward. I know because i read them. I considered it as I was going to take a position that would qualify but decided to take another position instead. I have not read them since Biden changed things recently.
Ive mentioned the white coat investor a few times in the last 48hrs (other thread...) and I sound like a fanboy. But he does have good advice.
He suggested if you do go for PSLF and you pay X% of your monthly income towards PSLF then you should save the extra money you would have paid towards your loan for a standard 10 year loan payoff. Then at 10 years if you dont get PSLF (because government is super trustworthy...) you have the money to pay it off minus the interest. That makes total sense to me and everyone that does PSLF should be doing that. If it works you have loans gone and a lump sum of money. If it doesnt... well you still have no loans at 10 years (minus interest).
Or bet it all on crypto like Dtrack and cutswithfury and pay them off early.
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Follow the advice above and also read from the site below:
Public Service Loan Forgiveness
[highlight] Alert! If your PSLF application is denied because some or all of your payments were not made under a qualifying repayment plan for PSLF, you might still be eligible for forgiveness through Temporary Expanded Public Service Loan Forgiveness. Learn more. [/highlight]
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"The income gap between PP, groups, etc versus the univ/govt/etc non-profit hospitals to meet PSLF is significant" Does this still hold true even with the recent increase in pay at the VA
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Med student chiming in. As someone who will owe $350k I've looked into PSLF myself (I'm very motivated and "eat what you kill mentality"). I will be doing a 5-7 year residency+fellowship. In every scenario I found that I would be better off refinancing and entering private practice from day 1 vs taking a neutered salary for 4-5 years post-residency to get PSLF.
What would be amazing is if Biden cancelled $50k and then changed PSLF to $10k per year so I could "double dip" during residency and then leave for greener pastures in PP.
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howdoiknow, with all do respect your comment provides no insight into PSLF for podiatry. No podiatry career involves a potential PGY-7 path
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It actually illuminates though a very comedic issue. When MD/DOs think PP they think "man, academic salaries are so poor. I'm off to greener pastures, eat what you kill, partnership, and profit". When podiatrists think hospitals and such they think - "I'll be crushing those sub-100K podiatry PP jobs".
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PSLF just doesn’t make sense for most podiatry grads. A majority of jobs do not qualify. At most you have 4 years of qualified payments through training though a vast majority will only have 3. The jobs that do qualify tend to pay enough that paying off even $300k in debt over the course of 3-4 years puts you ahead of what minimum payments over 10 years plus the amount forgiven would be.
IHS/VA/maybe some academic positions right out of residency are about the only time it might make sense for us DPMs. And even then I think you’d need to have a sizeable amount of qualified debt.
IHS/VA/maybe some academic positions right out of residency are about the only time it might make sense for us DPMs. And even then I think you’d need to have a sizeable amount of qualified debt.
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I ended up not doing things the right way so residency and my first year of practice did not count. I've worked for a hospital (including residency) for the last 10 years I would have been done this year if I had understood the rules. Six years ago a CRNA had to walk me through the process. Now I turn in the paper work 1 to 3 times a year and track my progress. According to the loan servicer I have 44 payments left. I may get 12 more payments to count under the temporary PSLF program. Its one of the few things keeping me at my current hospital.
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