Psychiatry PD reaction to being told you're ranking them #1

[189213]

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For those psychiatry residency applicants out there who have decided on who they're going to rank #1 and have informed the PD of that program of your decision, I was wondering -- how did the PD react to you telling them?

I had been told by one of the current residents at my #1 that I shouldn't expect too much reaction from the PD when I made them aware of my decision. When I actually did break the news (in a face to face meeting), the PD's reaction was indeed hard to read. The PD warmly thanked me for deciding to rank them #1. Then, the PD went on to say things that gave a mixed impression. The PD mentioned specific strengths of my application, but also noted that it was a competitive year and that they always encourage all applicants to rank a broad range of programs. I got the sense that what the PD was saying was perhaps a standard speech given to applicants.

What were other people's experiences? Thanks to anyone who'd care to share!

 

[golfpropsychguy]

Just rank them based on where you want to go. Why are setting yourself up to feel anxious about where they ranked you.

 

[189213]

I've seen you make similar comments on a couple of different threads, golfpropsychguy.

But if you read my post, you'll see that I'm not suggesting that I (or anyone) should base my ranking on how I think a program ranked me. Indeed, the whole premise of this thread is for people who have already decided on their #1. I agree with you that people should rank programs based on where they want to go.

I understand that the issue of feedback from programs is not something you seem to want to talk about, but please recognize that other people are interested in doing so. It seems presumptuous to dismiss those who do as merely setting themselves up to feel anxious. Although I doubt any applicant could honestly claim to be totally free from anxiety -- perhaps even including you?

Thanks again to anyone who cares to share their experiences!

 

[OldPsychDoc]

One of my medicine attendings (a PD himself) once told me that PDs are so used to getting lied to in this process, that they basically take it all with a grain of salt.

I got no response from my #1 PD when I told him back these many years ago. I'd be surprised if it has changed much.

 

[Nika]

I got no response from my #1 PD when I told him back these many years ago. I'd be surprised if it has changed much.

Did you get in your #1?

 

[cleareyedguy]

My guess is that the PD is tactfully saying that you are on the fringe of matching with them, and he doesn't want to lead you on. He might also be saying you have no chance. On the other hand, maybe you're in their top cluster and the PD just doesn't give out hints, or maybe he woke up on the wrong side of the bed...

 

[drmaya]

Hey..I felt the exact same way..I went for a second look(was getting good vibes and replies to my emails whenever I mailed the PD)and I also liked the program,so I decided to go.I expressed my feelings about the program to the PD during my meeting with him..he was very nice and friendly and all that,but I couldn't make out a thing from his facial expressions.He only told me that I was being ranked(didnt say high or low) but that it was very competitive and they haven't yet had the review committee meeting and hopefully some of my strong points would work in my favor but they would only know after the meeting.So..Edmund Griffus..I know how it feels-It really is so hard to tell and we can only take guesses-the only person who really knows the answer is the PD and he isn't going to tell us!🙂To make things worse,I haven't gotten replies to the couple messages I've sent after my 2nd look!Any take on that?!!I'm an IMG too..so I'm even more scared LOL.

 

[189213]

Hey, drmaya, thanks for sharing! Personally, my thinking is that if you've done a 2nd look and told the PD you're going to rank them #1, there's not much left for anyone to say.

Either the PD is going to believe you or not, but you've pretty much gone to the extreme of what you can communicate to them. It all comes back to the PD's attitude towards giving feedback. If the PD didn't react to you telling them that they're #1, especially face to face, what else could they possibly tell you, right?

 

[josehernandez94]

initially i got a pretty curt response basically saying thanks for letting us know, we still have a bunch of interviews left. a few days later, i got a very nice email that said they still had a ways to go, but would let me know more about my rank status prior to submission of the rank lists... there's only about a week left, so i'm hoping to hear from them any day.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Did you get in your #1?

yes

 

[drmaya]

Umm..I didnt say the words # 1 out loud but I have said top choice on emails to them, and straight,I told them the reasons why I wanted to go there..I know he believed me totally..he just acted like he didnt know about things himself until the review committee was done(maybe he didn't?)but I thought the Pd knows who he wants even before the meeting!?
Just the fact that I got replies to my mails before and did not after the second look worries me..maybe its because now they know my interest(they didnt know for sure before) and there really is nothing left to say except where they will rank me which they can't/don't tell you in most places?!Well..Let me keep guessing until March 20th!

 

[SpiritiualDuck]

Gosh, it's hard to read people. Some PD's might tell you that you are ranked high. Others might be much more reserved.

To know his mind, is hard to know. Just hang in there and see what happens. Good luck.

 

[Chimed]

I'd be surprised if it has changed much.

No, OPD, it hasn't changed much. He's still the same. 😉

 

[deleted77919]

I can understand why PD's want to be careful. Imagine this scenario. A program has 6 spots. A PD tells one student they will be ranked very highly. Student is ranked number 9 on their match list. Numbers 1,2,3,5,6,8 all rank that program number one. Student doesn't match and feels bitter and lied to, even though the student was indeed well liked and highly ranked.

 

[drmaya]

Thanks Dakota..well that means they would generally let us know if they are ranking us to match right? Like in the top 6 for 6 spots?Or is that also different for different programs??

 

[cleareyedguy]

Thanks Dakota..well that means they would generally let us know if they are ranking us to match right? Like in the top 6 for 6 spots?Or is that also different for different programs??

different, yes

 

[kstotes]

I want to echo the impression that PD's don't trust a damn thing you say. I have an excellent relationship with my number one program and everyone is very enthusiastic... then I talk to the PD... stone-faced, cryptic statements I'm left to mull over days after, and VERY pessimistic about believing I'm ranking them number one.

Here's how I tried to get around that a bit...
A.) They are not LEGALLY allowed to tell you anything (the repercussions for violating this rule is losing residency spots the following year I've heard--NE Patriots anyone)... BUT you can tell them as much as you want, so I say definitely go in there saying "I'M RANKING YOU NUMBER ONE". I have heard of residents scrambling because programs thought they were going somewhere else and didn't rank them. And one of the admission criteria for many programs is "Dedication to Program".

B.) In order to hammer home to the PD that you are interested, let every living person you know at that hospital know that you are doing so. You never know what conversations might be had passing in the hallway and the more times the PD hears "Hey this kid is pretty amazing, hope you guys take him/her" the better.

Granted of all fields, the power of suggestion/Jedi-mind tricks are least effective in psychiatry. Although I may try it once for kick-- "You will accept me to your program" "You will surround me with a resident class composed of attractive, smart, hard-working females incapable of getting pregnant over the next three years and thereby screwing my call schedule... oh and one guy who likes sports and bars and chest-bumps in the hallway".

P.S. Happy Belated Month-Til-St. Patty's Everyone

 

[sikegeek]

A.) They are not LEGALLY allowed to tell you anything (the repercussions for violating this rule is losing residency spots the following year I've heard--NE Patriots anyone)... BUT you can tell them as much as you want, so I say definitely go in there saying "I'M RANKING YOU NUMBER ONE". I have heard of residents scrambling because programs thought they were going somewhere else and didn't rank them. And one of the admission criteria for many programs is "Dedication to Program".

Question- I thought that EITHER party could volunteer whatever they wanted- I got this off of NRMP:



"6.0 Restrictions on Persuasion
One of the purposes of the Matching Program is to allow both applicants and programs to make selection decisions on a uniform schedule and without undue or unwarranted pressure. Both applicants and programs may express a high degree of interest in each other and try to encourage future ranking decisions in their favor, but must not solicit statements implying a commitment. Although applicants and programs may volunteer how they plan to rank each other, it is a breach of this Agreement to request such information. In addition, only the final preferences of programs and applicants, as expressed on their final certified rank order lists, will determine the offering of positions and the placement of applicants through the Matching Program. It is a breach of this Agreement for a participant in the Matching Program to make any verbal or written contract for appointment to a concurrent year residency position prior to the Matching Program. "



It kinda stinks that many PDs suspect that we are being dishonest. I mean anyone of us can figure out how to express a high degree of interest without committing to ranking a program # 1. On the other hand, it stinks to be put on the spot and have to come up with a response to that......from either side I'm sure.
Then on the other hand, as is discussed in another thread, I feel pretty responsive to people telling me that they like me. That makes me like them back 😀

 

[tennreb]

I emailed the PD and told him that I ranked his program #1. He said that the selection committee had just made its final rank list and that chances of matching there were "excellent." I think that is a pretty good sign.

 

[golfpropsychguy]

I emailed the PD and told him that I ranked his program #1. He said that the selection committee had just made its final rank list and that chances of matching there were "excellent." I think that is a pretty good sign.

This is such a waste of a post. Guys dont you have anything better to do than to share your PD reaction experiences...lol...

 

[josehernandez94]

.

 

[golfpropsychguy]

you're such a waste of a poster. don't you have anything better to do than to share your condescending opinions on an internet forum... lol...

Nice...Jose.lol... why dont you tell us which PD contacted you via emai, phone or snail mail to tell you how great you are...lol...honestly I'm laughing my A$$ off at how lame you guys are...

 

[billypilgrim37]

honestly I'm laughing my A$$ off at how lame you guys are...

Dude, wtf? Don't hate!

People are anxious. We all chose a career where dealing with people with anxieties is, like, OUR JOB! We're going to have patients who smoke crack and beat their wives and root for the Florida Gators to allay their anxieties, some REALLY MALADAPTIVE stuff. If the worst things the folks around here do to allay their anxiety is have some fun gossiping about programs, that isn't so bad.

Med students, even the chillest among us (of which I'm certainly not), have still had to jump through a lot of hoops (and play a few games) to get this far in life. And the match is this entirely absurd dance that none of us really have any experience with. We're used to accepting positions after they've been offered. And we're all even older than we've ever been (and now we're even older, now we're even older*). We're not used to a computer spitting out our assignment for the next 4 years. We look to each other to know how we're supposed to respond. That's okay.

It's absolutely cool that you're at peace with the process. That's awesome. But it's cool if some folks aren't, too. Heck, some of these anxious people might be your co-interns, and they won't be lame. They'll be up at 3AM with you next year evaluating chest pain on people who just need a good burp, writing for tylenol for 100.4 temps, and deciding whether somebody's dangerous enough to lock up for a week.

You've made a good point: rank where you want to go, and leave it at that.

But match day's a month away! Most of us can't afford therapy, and SDN is cheap. Let's leave it at that.



*Name the band referenced, anyone, and you get a bp37 cookie!

 

[OldPsychDoc]

This is such a waste of a post. Guys dont you have anything better to do than to share your PD reaction experiences...lol...

They're 4th year med students waiting for Match Day.
Damn straight they don't have anything better to do!
Give them a break...

 

[pingouin]

And we're all even older than we've ever been (and now we're even older, now we're even older*).


*Name the band referenced, anyone, and you get a bp37 cookie!

They Might Be Giants for the win, please.


To stay on topic, I'm trying to figure out where I'm starting med school next year. So I'm allaying my anxiety about that by looking at threads like this to see what my anxiety level will look like in four years. 👍

 

[billypilgrim37]

They Might Be Giants for the win, please.

Oatmeal raisin, or chocolate chip? 😉

 

[189213]

I emailed the PD and told him that I ranked his program #1. He said that the selection committee had just made its final rank list and that chances of matching there were "excellent." I think that is a pretty good sign.

That sounds pretty solid, tennreb. I had a friend who was applying two years ago and heard similar feedback from her #1, and ended up there. Hopefully, it's enough to at least let you chill out until 3/20. It's nicer than the cryptic feedback I got -- good luck to you!

And good luck to josehernandez94, too!

I guess I'd prefer the thought of each PD having a different attitude towards how they react to being told that they're your #1. That way, I can at least console myself by saying, "Oh well, that PD gives vague feedback to everyone!"

But it is nice to hear people saying they matched at their #1s after having received mixed/no feedback. Thanks again to everyone who has replied!

 

[sikegeek]

I emailed the PD and told him that I ranked his program #1. He said that the selection committee had just made its final rank list and that chances of matching there were "excellent." I think that is a pretty good sign.

That is awesome! Actually, that is "excellent!"

Edmund, maybe when you contacted the program, they hadn't made their list yet and the PD really didn't know what to say. Maybe the PDs don't know the candidates well enough until that meeting. The resident that talked to you probably knew what he was talking about.

I wish we could take a valium with a half life of four weeks. If you think about, this really is an extremely serious life event. Epecially if you are dragging a significant other who has to change their life and career like mine does.

Golfpropsychguy, you have to be messing with us for amusement. Why would anyone going into psychiatry be so intolerant of people venting their worries? Cut us some slack, please!!!

 

[Chimed]

They're 4th year med students waiting for Match Day.
Damn straight they don't have anything better to do!
Give them a break...

Ahhhhh....Yes, 4th year was the best year of my life

 

[PeeWee137]

i have anxiety for all you guys (and myself) and im only an ms3!
i hope you all stick around to tell the class of 09 to calm the f down!

 

[tennreb]

This is such a waste of a post. Guys dont you have anything better to do than to share your PD reaction experiences...lol...

No, I don't. Do you have anything better to do than inflating your sense of superiority by being condescending to others?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

No, I don't. Do you have anything better to do than inflating your sense of superiority by being condescending to others?

Everybody deals with the stresses of Match Month in their own way...

 

[Nika]

Nice...Jose.lol... why dont you tell us which PD contacted you via emai, phone or snail mail to tell you how great you are...lol...honestly I'm laughing my A$$ off at how lame you guys are...

Are you really sure that you psychiatrist, not the patient? 😎

 

[sikegeek]

i have anxiety for all you guys (and myself) and im only an ms3!
i hope you all stick around to tell the class of 09 to calm the f down!

Thanks, that's so sweet!

It's a special bittersweet kind of anxiety. But noone's saying that you can't start to get anxious for yourself now.......4th year is right around the corner 😉

 

[pingouin]

Oatmeal raisin, or chocolate chip? 😉

Chocolate chip, of course. 😀


By the way, if you guys want to see some real neuroticism, please come visit us in the MCAT forum. We're completely stocked up there.

 

[Lauraaa]

Oh no!!!! 🙁 I'm too late!!! I could've totally gotten a cookie had I been reading SDN earlier - I love TMBG! And chocolate chip is my favorite!

 

[189213]

Edmund, maybe when you contacted the program, they hadn't made their list yet and the PD really didn't know what to say. Maybe the PDs don't know the candidates well enough until that meeting. The resident that talked to you probably knew what he was talking about.

Thanks for the sentiment, sikegeek -- hopefully you're right! Of course, my greater concern would be that they'd already had that meeting, and that I'd been too late to tell them I was ranking them #1. I guess this is just my imagination vainly trying to occupy itself in the face of feeling kind of in the dark! It would be nice to know when programs meet to make their final lists, but of course it seems that most would prefer not to disclose information like that.

Wow, this thread has gotten a good number of views -- thanks again to everyone who's chipped in!

 

[Danica]

This is such a waste of a post. Guys dont you have anything better to do than to share your PD reaction experiences...lol...

Nice...Jose.lol... why dont you tell us which PD contacted you via emai, phone or snail mail to tell you how great you are...lol...honestly I'm laughing my A$$ off at how lame you guys are...

Remember this guy golfpropsychguy is not know for his veracity and has used this forum in the past for reprehensible attacks on third parties and a program including lying about persons and facts.

This is par for him, belittle, belittle, belittle.