PsyD - Professor?

[patrickd223]

How hard is it to find a job as a professor with a psyd degree? I know it is more likely to be at a community college of some sort that isnt research based. What do you guys think?

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[patrickd223]

can psyd's even be professors?

 

[50960]

Of course. John Preston is one of the best names in psychopharm and he is a professor; there are many others.😀

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

There is still some resistance in the 'ivory towers', but the majority of places have assimilated PsyD's into their programs. You still need to have the research and publications to back it up....so don't expect to do minimal research, and then teach, because that usually doesn't happen. There are still some internship sites that say, "Only PhD", but again....they are in the minority.

-t

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Hopefully more people will chime in about academia, etc.

-t

 

[psychanon]

I'm not as much as an expert as others out there may be on the specifics of job availability, but if you're asking because you're trying to decide between a Ph.D. and a Psy.D and you know right now that you want to become a professor, I think that choosing the Psy.D. could really be shooting yourself in the foot in terms of job options. I'm sure that there are plenty of examples of PsyD professors out there- there are exceptions to every rule- but the fact of the matter is that PsyD is not going to be the best route for academia. I don't think that this is just because of biases in the field against PsyDs (although that could certainly play a role)-- PsyDs by design are not the ideal for academia, as they're specifically intended for people who are not primarily interested in research. There may also not be as many teaching opportunities in a PsyD program (although if I'm wrong about this, please correct), which are important for getting positions at liberal arts colleges. The exception might be a clinical adjunct type position, where primary duties would be to supervise clinical students or train in clinical methods- that might be appopriate for PsyDs.

There are all sorts of hurdles to getting into academia already-- I wouldn't add another by getting a less-than-ideal degree.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Great explaination.

Differentiating between the classic research/teach/supervisor position, and the adjunct/supervisor is important. You can stil get a solid education in research in a PsyD program (obviously there is a range of experiences), but that would require much more self-directed work bc the program, by design, is not as focused on the research aspects.

Given what you've said....PhD sounds like the best way to go.

-t

 

[phd2006]

My experience echos that of the others....very few PsyD's are in academia (even in schools that offer PsyD programs). In fact, the only PsyD I know who worked in academia was associated with a professional school that only offered a PsyD degree.

 

[gaywhiteoprah]

this is a little off topic, but I really like the comments of everone on this thread so I'd love to hear what you all think...

I have a Bachelors degree in Music-I got it 4 years ago.

Now, of course, I want to start grad/doctoral work in psychology. It's a passion I've had all my life-at least that is helping others discover their own validity. So now I'm just trying to swim through the muck. I'm getting mixed messages about what direction I should go through for school. Ideally, I would love to have my own practice, but also I love teaching. True, I've never taught psychology-more music and theatre classes-I still love the application of knowledge.

When I began this trek, I thought I should look into a MA in Clinical. However, now I'm getting advice from some therapists if I get a MA and then try to go to another school to do doctoral work-that I would just have to redo many hours of MA coursework, being that more and more schools are combining the two. So that's one thing.

Now I'm a smart guy and I work hard. I had a good GPA in my undergrad, but if I did try and get into a doctoral track program (like UCLA's) that would probably never happen. If I do this I want to go to a school with standing. Do independent schools (such as Antioch in Los Angeles) carry as much weight. So that's the second thing.

Thirdly, I'm am teetering on whether to do a PhD or PsyD. I am having no trouble finding good schools for PhD programs-many of which wouldn't not take me-or I would have to get a BA in Psych. However, I'm very intrigued by the PsyD program, but have no clue of finding info on which schools are good institutions. I live in Los Angeles, and would prefer not to move but I would if necessary. Any suggestions???

Just the anticipation of hearing what you might say gives me comfort. Thanks for any info.

~matt
[email protected]

 

[Logic Prevails]

Just remember that if you want to teach - you need to do research (it is a requirement in the world of academia). Research is not for everyone - it can be extremely stressful ("publish or perish") and time consuming. I'm sure there are a few people who really enjoy research, but most people I know who are GOOD at it (i.e. are able to secure government grants, funding, etc.) are still single in their 40's, dress like hobo's, and smell like cats (how's that for generalizing). You might get away with teaching part-time (and not being required to do reserach), but part-time faculty usually get paid in day old donuts and food stamps (love it or leave it).

Now, if you don't want to teach or do reserach, and your only other desire is to have a private practice, then I would encourage you to look at becoming an LPC. There have been plenty of discussions on this forum about degrees, and the general consensus is that if you JUST want to do therapy - DON'T get a PhD/PsyD (unless you are independently wealthy).

These statements are generalizing, but this is my gut feeling nonetheless.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

You might get away with teaching part-time......but part-time faculty usually get paid in day old donuts and food stamps (love it or leave it).

The difference in pay is signiicant, so keep that in mind. I look at it as a change of pace, and an opportunity to interact and positively contribute to the next generation of professionals.....because I know it isn't for the money!

Now, if you don't want to teach or do reserach, and your only other desire is to have a private practice, then I would encourage you to look at becoming an LPC. There have been plenty of discussions on this forum about degrees, and the general consensus is that if you JUST want to do therapy - DON'T get a PhD/PsyD (unless you are independently wealthy).

I guess......but I feel (admittedly biased toward a doc) that an LPC is very limited in what you can do with it. If you just want the do therapy, a doc may be overkill....thought I do believe you will get much better clinicial skills (this is a constant pt of arguement, so take my opinion with a grain fo salt)

-t

 

[patrickd223]

Basicaly if you want to teach and make a decent buck (which you will need to pay off loans), then go for the phd. If you want to do therapy, a psyd will overqualify you and more importantly put you in debtors prison because there isnt enough money to be made doing therapy alone. You would be making similar money as a LPC and wouldnt have $100,000 in debt. Many people do things like assessments to offset the money that they dont make in therapy. Only problem is that the general consensus is assessments are boring as hell. If you go the psyd route, your survival will depend on diversifying what you do. You could mix up teaching part time, therapy part time, assessments part time, and consulting part time. Atleast these are the impressions I have been given. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

 

[50960]

Remember supportive counselling, and EBM psychological treatment of mental disorders are 2 totally different animals. Nurses do the majority of "medical" care in this country, but they do not practice medicine; same with counselling and clinical psychology.

 

[PsyDchaser]

As the Psy.D. degree gains in popularity, it is becoming much more common to see Psy.D.'s in teaching positions. Coming from a Psy.D. Program, about 1/3 of our core faculty are PsyD's. Of course, publication is still important, but at a University, you have a constant subject pool, so research isn't quite as daunting as many make it seem.
It is easier with a Psy.D. to "diversify", that is, to do therapy, assessment (NOT boring, if you like that sort of thing), consultation, and teaching. I know many people, some in my program, who "burned out" going the traditional LPC or even MCounseling route, and have come back to earn their Psy.D.'s fully intending to be diverse practitioners.
One addtional point of reference, and then I'll shut up 🙂
In my experience, and that of many of my Psy.D. friends from other schools, there are a great deal of teaching positions available for graduate students, both at the undergraduate and graduate level.
Hope this helps!

 

[Logic Prevails]

Remember supportive counselling, and EBM psychological treatment of mental disorders are 2 totally different animals. Nurses do the majority of "medical" care in this country, but they do not practice medicine; same with counselling and clinical psychology.

Are you saying that a person who gets an MSc in clinical psyc and who goes on to provide therapy in a private practice setting as an LPC is not "doing clinical psychology?"

 

[50960]

Absolutely. I have alot of training in medical psych, but I am not practicing psychiatry, medicine, etc....

 

[Logic Prevails]

Absolutely. I have alot of training in medical psych, but I am not practicing psychiatry, medicine, etc....

Please enlighten me.

If an individual goes to graduate school to study clinical psychology, then works as a Licensed Psychological Counselor, how are they not practicing psychology? What do you think they are practicing?

 

[50960]

Professional counselling.

 

[gaywhiteoprah]

Does anyone have any good recommendations regarding good PsyD progams in Southern California?

and thanks for your other comments..you people are great. 🙂

 

[Logic Prevails]

Professional counselling.

Oh okay.

So someone who is in a graduate program "en route" to getting a PhD, and who is doing supervised therapy, must also be doing "counseling" and not practicing real psychology - I guess you need the diploma to do that.

I think you need to base your distinction on the type of training and not the parchment. If someone is doing a graduate degree in psychology, then they are practicing psychology. They are not "psychologists," but they are definitely practicing psychology.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

It is a fuzzy line though.....would you consider a social worker to be practicing psychology? I'd argue the majority of 'interventions' a SW uses are not psychological in nature.

-t

 

[Logic Prevails]

would you consider a social worker to be practicing psychology?

Not unless they have some kind of graduate degree in psychology.

I'm not trying to blur the lines with degrees (that doesn't need any help)... I just think that you should at least acknowledge that someone is practicing psychology if they have a damn graduate degree in it. You don't need to be so protective of your turf/title.

I have a MSc in clinical psychology... I don't have a PhD (yet), but I can tell you that I practice psychology - to argue otherwise is plain ridiculous.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I just think that you should at least acknowledge that someone is practicing psychology if they have a damn graduate degree in it.

I wouldn't give a blanket statement and say everyone....but I think in general you are correct.

-t

 

[50960]

The determination of who is practicing psychology is made by the state and provincial psychology boards. 95+% of the states require a doctorate at the entry level degree for practicing psychology, and a license as a psychologist to call yourself a psychologist or state that you are practicing psychology. This is how me made our determination.