PsyD Programs - help!

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romano

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I've been admitted to the Wright Institute in Berkeley, CA. A psychologist friend of my parents' advised that I don't go. Rather, she suggested, I spend a year getting clinical experience, of which I have very little, and reapply to George Washington's PsyD program, from which I was rejected this last year.

I'm looking for good honest advice:

Is the Wright Institute a good program? Is it worth the cost?

Is GWU a better program?

I want to work on PTSD issues, with veterans and their families. I have no one to guide me in this, and could really use some good, honest advice.

Thanks!
 
Is it worth the cost? No program which requires that you take out 150K (at least) in loans for a career where the median income in 60-70K is. Thats just bad economic/financial decision making (unless your wealthy).... do the loan payback math.

From a rep perspective, it not the best place, but not the worst either. Im sure you can get good training there and come out ok assuming you are proactve and motivated. How's their match rate? If your interested in veterans trauma though, I hope you don't mind the hour commute to the Palo Alto VA. The San Fran and Martinez VA are up there actually, but im not sure if they take the wright students for prac, might wanna check on that.
 
I was accepted to both programs. I decided to attend GWU because its curriculum was more appealing and the professors matched my interests.
I have a professor here in NYC that spoke very highly of Wright, which is one of the reasons I applied. I know that it maintains a pretty good reputation in the North California area... As for working with trauma- you could always contact them and discuss what placements they may have for you. Just some thoughts for you. Good luck!
 
I agree with Erg. If the debt is 150k+, that's simply inconsiderable given the income you'll be looking at.
 
Neither is a great choice for what you want. Both programs have poor APA placement rates, though they both appear to have more students than average who are gepgraphically restricted (a large factor in matching). Both programs also have a psychodynamic slant, which isn't a bad thing....but the VA system is pushing HARD for Cognitive Processing Therapy and Prolonged Exposure Therapy as the two prefered methods of treatment for trauma. Many/Most VA psychologists who provide therapy will be required to attend VA sponosred training in an EBT (like the ones listed above).

You'll want to know each program's history of placing students into VA internships, as they seem to be getting even more competitive. As as aside, the Pal Alto VA is a great training VA, so doing a practica there would be good. I'm guessing Walter Reed is the closest VA to GWU, though you'll want to check.
 
Thank you for all of these very helpful replies. Keep them coming please!

Neither is a great choice for what you want. Both programs have poor APA placement rates, though they both appear to have more students than average who are gepgraphically restricted (a large factor in matching). Both programs also have a psychodynamic slant, which isn't a bad thing....but the VA system is pushing HARD for Cognitive Processing Therapy and Prolonged Exposure Therapy as the two prefered methods of treatment for trauma. Many/Most VA psychologists who provide therapy will be required to attend VA sponosred training in an EBT (like the ones listed above).


Please forgive my ignorance, but what is an EBT? Also, I gravitate toward psychodynamic training, but how do I find out what schools focus on Cognitive Processing Therapy and Prolonged Exposure Therapy?

Thank you!
 
Please forgive my ignorance, but what is an EBT? Also, I gravitate toward psychodynamic training,

A lot of people would smirk at this, actually. EBT is evidence-based treatment. (I say a lot of people would smirk bc the relative evidence base for psychodynamic stuff is often pretty shaky.)
 
A lot of people would smirk at this, actually. EBT is evidence-based treatment. (I say a lot of people would smirk bc the relative evidence base for psychodynamic stuff is often pretty shaky.)

Or at least everyone assumes it is 🙄
 
Or at least everyone assumes it is 🙄


The term evidence-based actually refers to a specific type of evidence gathered in a particular way under a particular set of assumptions and methodologies. All therapies have an evidence base so the term is actually a code word for CBT 🙄 Even psychodynamic therapies have an evidence base! Remember and honour the Dodo bird!
 
All therapies have an evidence base so the term is actually a code word for CBT 🙄 Even psychodynamic therapies have an evidence base!

Yeah, but questions go beyond whether there is an "evidence base" into the amount of evidence, how reliable and valid it is, etc. Just bc there is evidence doesn't mean it's good evidence.
 
I hate to derail this too far but can't help but jump in here, since this is an issue I feel very strongly about.

Just bc there is evidence doesn't mean it's good evidence.

This. As an example, Case studies can certainly be useful, but are not great for establishing efficacy. They perhaps establish that a person "can" get better under that circumstance, but do not let you infer causation. They are absolutely important and necessary parts of science and the treatment literature, but they have significant limitations on what you can draw from them. Other things do too (i.e. RCTs, Meta-analyses), so a great deal of care needs to go into reading these articles to make sure you are drawing appropriate inferences from them. More care than I think many psychologists are adequately prepared for, which is why I am such a strong proponent of appropriate scientific training, even for people with no desire to do research at any point in their career.

EBT uses an evidence hierarchy. Not all "evidence" is equal. Jim telling me he wears a crystal on his wrist that helps him quit smoking is "evidence" too. However, I don't think anyone would consider it to be on the same level as even a well-designed case study, let alone an exhaustive review of the entire treatment literature for a disorder by a panel of 30 experts. Treatments with a larger volume of higher quality evidence are considered "first-line" treatments. If treatment fails, the client is unwilling to agree to it (i.e. exposure), or it is inappropriate for an individual client (for client-based reasons not just therapist preference), then you move to the next best-supported treatment. I think most will agree it describes an ideal that can rarely be met perfectly, but seems a reasonable goal and is certainly the direction the field is going. It certainly does not include only CBT...that is just flat out untrue and though most will agree that it is probably the front-runner in many situations, I think you will be hard-pressed to find a single person within the movement who would argue it exclusively refers to CBT. Though we risk blurring the lines between EBT and EST, it generally includes many non-CBT treatments. DBT, IPT, even some brief psychodynamic treatments, as well as some of third-wave therapies (mindfulness, ACT).

Also, I grow weary of people citing the dodo bird on this board. Please read the literature yourself before leaping on the bandwagon, because I think you will find that the evidence to support it is often much weaker than its proponents pretend (i.e. requires collapsing across disorders, substantive differences in implementation, inferences drawn on modalities that weren't even studied). That isn't to say there isn't some merit to it, and plenty of merit to some of the broader themes (i.e. importance of non-specific factors). However, I think it is all too often not read with a critical eye and I'm always unclear why the dodo bird evidence is for some reason treated as the holy grail of scientific evidence by many on this board and elsewhere, when other equally good scientific evidence to the contrary is summarily dismissed.
 
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It certainly does not include only CBT...that is just flat out untrue and though most will agree that it is probably the front-runner in many situations, I think you will be hard-pressed to find a single person within the movement who would argue it exclusively refers to CBT. Though we risk blurring the lines between EBT and EST, it generally includes many non-CBT treatments. DBT, IPT, even some brief psychodynamic treatments, as well as some of third-wave therapies (mindfulness, ACT).

FWIW, some of the treatments that have been dubbed "third-wave" are considered by their developers to be CBT and not part of a "third-wave." This including Linehan on DBT.
 
Does Linehan argue that it "is" CBT, or that it developed from CBT? I'd always heard the latter, but I could be wrong. I guess it is sort of semantics, but it seems an important distinction to me. I certainly consider it distinct enough to be considered its own modality, given the extensive literature on it, coupled with the fact that it would require pretty extensive training to be able to perform correctly regardless of the background one has in CBT, but I think Linehan probably has the finally call on that one😉

Anyways, the broader point is that a number of distinctly non-CBT treatments qualify. IPT is generally viewed as having grown out of psychodynamic treatments, and is on the list.
 
Does Linehan argue that it "is" CBT, or that it developed from CBT? I'd always heard the latter, but I could be wrong. I guess it is sort of semantics, but it seems an important distinction to me. I certainly consider it distinct enough to be considered its own modality, given the extensive literature on it, coupled with the fact that it would require pretty extensive training to be able to perform correctly regardless of the background one has in CBT, but I think Linehan probably has the finally call on that one😉

I'm going by a paper I have in front of me that says Linehan "does not consider DBT to be part of this 'third wave' but, instead, views DBT as a form of CBT that includes acceptance strategies."

It was cited as a personal communication.

Hofmann, S. G., & Asmundson, G. J. G. (2008). Acceptance and mindfulness-based therapy: New wave or old hat? Clinical Psychology Review, 28, 1-16.
 
Both programs also have a psychodynamic slant, which isn't a bad thing....but the VA system is pushing HARD for Cognitive Processing Therapy and Prolonged Exposure Therapy as the two prefered methods of treatment for trauma.

Been accepted at the Wright and will be starting there this fall. I was told that the Dean has helped develop much more balance (however "much" that may be, I couldn't rightly say) to the program's traditionally psychodynamic/interpersonal orientation and training. He favors family systems as well as brief dynamic orientations.
 
I think you can get CPT and PE training at many different programs, I just thought it was important to mention because the VA is making it a point to have specific treatments for certain psych. Dx's. As long as a person can find mentorship in their orientation of choice, it is less of an issue.
 
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