Punching In? How come the residents don't have to do it?

[surgeon2b forev]

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At my institution, every employee of the hospital, except the resident docs, punches in and out when they start/end their days. That's how I did it when I worked at a supermarket; that's how any normal job is. I was wondering, does ANYONE here punch in and out in this fashion? Or, instead, are you asked to submit your hours via an online form?

Obviously with the online forms you can (and have to) fudge your numbers to comply with the 80 hour week. Of course, it's also not very accurate, because WHO REALLY keeps track of their hours to the tee anyway? It's not like you get paid by the hour.

Is that the reason they don't use the punching in and out? so we CAN lie? Because if people REALLY wanted compliance w/the 80 hour week, this would be a good solution; although, probably not the best for the patients.

At least, however, it would take away the tensions thrown around w/regard to going over. That is to say, if you punch in and out, and REAL records were kept, then maybe Program Directors could more accurately organize their programs whereby realistic schedules can be made. If everyone SAYS their doing 76 hours on Onc-Surg, but in reality every intern has been lying on the service for 3 years and really does 102 hours a week, well then maybe a re-distribution of the PA from a less busy service to the Onc service would be desirable.

Ideas?

 

[MossPoh]

I have the feeling the other jobs have you punch in because it is based on an hourly wage more than the whole keeping track of hours thing. Most jobs that are salaried or based on production don't have you stamp in from what I've seen. Also, scheduling is a pain in the ass for regular employees...now try doctors with irregular schedules that swap a lot.

None of my friends in other fields stamp/swipe in. Business, engineering, teaching, etc. Only the wage jobs I've done have involved it.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

I have heard there are hospitals that have the residents punch in and out but I have no experience with this myself. I will say that sometimes I would fudge my numbers because I felt like the reason I went over was my own fault. For example, I would sometimes find myself in the cafeteria for breakfast post call and felt bad logging that I went over my hours when there is a possibility if I had skipped breakfast I could have gotten my work done more efficiently and gotten out of the hospital "on time". If I got consistently killed on a rotation then I was more likely to truthfully report my hours in the hopes that things would change.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I have heard rumor that some hospitals DO have the residents do it since the 80 hr week came about.

 

[Blade28]

We tried that for a month at the county hospital here. Didn't work.

 

[Winged Scapula]

We tried that for a month at the county hospital here. Didn't work.

I can speculate why it didn't work...

- residents just "forgot" to swipe in and out
- residents would swipe out but then not leave
- residents would swipe in at a later hour than they actually arrived

While the idea sounds good in principle, there are ways to "juggle the work hour books" even with this system.

 

[MossPoh]

I can speculate why it didn't work...

- residents just "forgot" to swipe in and out
- residents would swipe out but then not leave
- residents would swipe in at a later hour than they actually arrived

While the idea sounds good in principle, there are ways to "juggle the work hour books" even with this system.

Funny how medicine seems to be one of the few areas where the punching in is an attempt to get them to do less work. 😉

 

[Blade28]

I can speculate why it didn't work...

- residents just "forgot" to swipe in and out
- residents would swipe out but then not leave
- residents would swipe in at a later hour than they actually arrived

EXACTLY! 🙂

 

[Blade28]

I've heard of programs that will automatically keep track of your hours based on when you swipe your card to enter/exit the parking deck. Now THAT'S a scary thought!

 

[Winged Scapula]

I've heard of programs that will automatically keep track of your hours based on when you swipe your card to enter/exit the parking deck. Now THAT'S a scary thought!

Perhaps they should consider microchipping all of you and following your whereabouts at all times with a GPS!

 

[core0]

Perhaps they should consider microchipping all of you and following your whereabouts at all times with a GPS!

The future is here:
http://www.roameoforpets.com/

 

[ruggerdoc123]

I've heard of programs that will automatically keep track of your hours based on when you swipe your card to enter/exit the parking deck. Now THAT'S a scary thought!

my buddy at mayo said that's how they kept track of hrs (parking garage). this was in 2004.

 

[Asdf77]

I think a punch card system is a great idea if for no other reason than it's just easier than going to a website, punching in the hours, etc, etc. Just swipe in and swipe out. Easy.

And since this is morphed into an 80 hour work week debate, I can say i'm mostly in favor of it. I'm still an M4 so I haven't figured it all out yet, but I think it's good to protect some of our time for sleep, family, friends, eating, playstation, etc. You know, the important things in life.

 

[Blade28]

And since this is morphed into an 80 hour work week debate, I can say i'm mostly in favor of it. I'm still an M4 so I haven't figured it all out yet, but I think it's good to protect some of our time for sleep, family, friends, eating, playstation, etc. You know, the important things in life.

You'll see that in the surgical fields, it's not quite that easy.

 

[surgiwho]

Imagine the scene, PD walks by the signout "clock", and to his/her surprise, a med student with cards for his respective post call team signing them out!!!😱

 

[Blade28]

Imagine the scene, PD walks by the signout "clock", and to his/her surprise, a med student with cards for his respective post call team signing them out!!!😱

Well the med student might not have access. But interns have been known to help clock out their residents. 🙂

 

[GreatSaphenous]

"How come residents don't have to clock in?"

Simple, because you shouldn't view surgery as something you can clock out of.

Actually, I largely support the 80 hour week. It is not that hard to do all of our work within that time period especially when it can be averaged over 4 weeks. The part I really have a problem with is the 10 hour respite. I mean, for the love of Saha, I'm not going to leave a great case just because 7:00 arrives and I have to be in at 5:00 the next morning.

Well that's all for now.
Go back to your frosted mini wheats.
I am the Great Saphenous!!!!!