Pure Omm Residency

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HolisticMed

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Several hospitals offer OMM residencies - sometimes referred to as a neuro-musculoskeletal medicine residencies. While I am not familiar with the specifics of the different programs, St. Barnabas hospital in New York offers a 3 year neuromusculoskeletal medicine residency. These are NOT family medicine/omm residencies but rather a 3 year residency in PURE Osteopathic Manipulative medicine.

While I am aware that many osteopaths have very successful outpatient practices utilizing OMT, do hospitals hire full time attendings who's residency was in NMM? If so, can anybody be specific with regard to names of hospitals or even any salary information. Thanks !!! 👍 👍

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I don't know the immediate answer to this, but will ask around. Most of the physicians I know of who specialize do private practice or academic medicine(hence how I know them).
 
The hospital in New York has a wonderful D.O. who is allowed to do cranial adjustment to newborns in the hospital. His name slips me but he is world renowned and I;m sure he is doing quite well. There's also a hospital in Orlando, one in Michigan (MSU), Maine and I think Mayo has some going on too.
 
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I know my hospital is currently looking for an NMM/OMM certified physician. I have rotated in some larger MD hospitals that have a NMM consult service because it decreases length of stay on many patients.

As far as the pay goes, I'm not sure. Just like anything else medical, I'm sure you sacrifice $$ for convience with being a hospital employee.
 
Several hospitals offer OMM residencies - sometimes referred to as a neuro-musculoskeletal medicine residencies. While I am not familiar with the specifics of the different programs, St. Barnabas hospital in New York offers a 3 year neuromusculoskeletal medicine residency. These are NOT family medicine/omm residencies but rather a 3 year residency in PURE Osteopathic Manipulative medicine.

While I am aware that many osteopaths have very successful outpatient practices utilizing OMT, do hospitals hire full time attendings who's residency was in NMM? If so, can anybody be specific with regard to names of hospitals or even any salary information. Thanks !!! 👍 👍

I don't know if this helps, but take a look, I found it very interesting indeed.

St. Barnabas looks off the hook, btw.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=5019417&postcount=21

👍
 
Yeah, the St. Barnabas program is probably the best straight OMM program out there. Dr. Etlinger (sp?) is the man!! I've heard they're doing OMM on trauma patients there. I know they are doing a research project on post chest tube insertion pain right now. Go check it out if you are interested.
 
Yeah, the St. Barnabas program is probably the best straight OMM program out there. Dr. Etlinger (sp?) is the man!! I've heard they're doing OMM on trauma patients there. I know they are doing a research project on post chest tube insertion pain right now. Go check it out if you are interested.


I heard the same thing, esp. the part about Dr. Ettlinger...
whats UNECOM's deal with Maine Medical? It's gotta be pretty good...
 
I've talked to the director @ the +1 program in Bangor, ME, and it looks very sweet. They do a 6 week rotation at the PT school in town doing dissection. I would love to do that again, now that I'm out of school. They also have some pretty sweet Urgent Care/ER moonlighting there as well.
 
I've talked to the director @ the +1 program in Bangor, ME, and it looks very sweet. They do a 6 week rotation at the PT school in town doing dissection. I would love to do that again, now that I'm out of school. They also have some pretty sweet Urgent Care/ER moonlighting there as well.

That's great that you took the initiative to call them, hey if you find out more, esp. about the FP/OMM residency, pass it along to us here.
I'm curious to all:

If I want to do my residency at St. Barnabas, should I set my sights on PCOM, and if I want to do it at South Maine, should I hook up with UNECOM, or is it a lot more flexible than that? Just curious.
There must be some added benefit of applying to a residency which is in your schools network..

right?
 
Basically you want to go the school where you can get the best OMM training. UNECOM has a very good OMT dept and there are a lot of good docs up there to follow/listen to weekend lectures. Also, make sure you hook up with the new england Still/Sutherland Study group and learn from their members as much as possible. One you start rotating, you can do a rotation on that service as an elective. Make sure you show your mad skills, workable personality, and interest in the program and that should be all you need to do.
 
If you do an NMM/OMM only residency(not FP integrated or plus one) does it limit your scope of practice as far as prescribing medications?😕
 
I would not say that. The only thing that would limit the amount of medicines you prescribe is your knowledge on how to use them and your patients' willingness to take them. All OMM residencies require the first year to be a rotating internship, so one's clinic exposure and hospital ward exposure should be more than adequate to learn to manage a plethora of disease medically...if one is motivated to do so.
 
Must one attend an osteopathic residency program to apply for an osteopathic fellowship, such as the NMM/OMM fellowship?

-- EDIT: Answered in another forum.
 
If you do an NMM/OMM only residency(not FP integrated or plus one) does it limit your scope of practice as far as prescribing medications?😕

Does it limit your ability to write meds? No.

Does it limit your comfort level? Yes.

No OMM specialists want to be dealing in diabetes management meds, HTN drugs, etc. And a lawyer wouldnt like that either.
 
I'm going to have to disagree with you JP on this one. The comfort level that one obtains comes from one's own dedication to obtain it. Remember that it was not too long ago that most DOs only did a one year rotating internship and started practice. Those DOs did FP, delivered babies, and alot did OMT. Someone who does a NMM residency should be just as capable (at least at the end of the first year) as a FP or IM resident at the same level. It is from that point onward that the resident has to decide to either keep that confidence and continue learning more and more medicine by keeping up the the journals, or to drop it (just like any other specialist would) in favor of spending their free time going deeper into their specialty.

Another example would be Step III boards. Most people do just fine taking boards during their first year, but ask them again when they are 3 years down the road into their specialty and see how much comfort they have in general medicine...very few do.

Now let's look at another thing that involves comfort...where are you getting your experience from. You can read all of the journals you want, but if your preceptor in your continuity clinic does not feel comfortable with you managing HTN, DM, etc, with drugs, then that will limit you greatly, unless you moonlight. I know a NMM resident who moonlights in an ER right now so he does not lose his medicine knowledge (plus he makes 150/hr doing it too).
 
I'm going to have to disagree with you JP on this one. The comfort level that one obtains comes from one's own dedication to obtain it. Remember that it was not too long ago that most DOs only did a one year rotating internship and started practice. Those DOs did FP, delivered babies, and alot did OMT. Someone who does a NMM residency should be just as capable (at least at the end of the first year) as a FP or IM resident at the same level. It is from that point onward that the resident has to decide to either keep that confidence and continue learning more and more medicine by keeping up the the journals, or to drop it (just like any other specialist would) in favor of spending their free time going deeper into their specialty.

Another example would be Step III boards. Most people do just fine taking boards during their first year, but ask them again when they are 3 years down the road into their specialty and see how much comfort they have in general medicine...very few do.

Now let's look at another thing that involves comfort...where are you getting your experience from. You can read all of the journals you want, but if your preceptor in your continuity clinic does not feel comfortable with you managing HTN, DM, etc, with drugs, then that will limit you greatly, unless you moonlight. I know a NMM resident who moonlights in an ER right now so he does not lose his medicine knowledge (plus he makes 150/hr doing it too).

I dont know of any community based OMM specialists who handle FP, IM or Peds responsibilities.

Can you maintain that level of medical knowledge? Absolutely.

Would it be prudent to do OMM/NMM and open up shop as if you were an FP? No way. Something bad happens and you are done.
 
Hi,

I'd like to see if this thread can be rekindled a bit...

Wondering from those of you that posted in '07, what you have found out regarding NMM/OMT residencies and doctors.

1. how are the programs that are out there, are there truly some that are better than others in terms of the skills obtained? or does it depend on what your looking for (e.g. location, research experience, teaching experience).

2. any new info regarding the "scope of practice" question? For example if a NMM were to have a practice, thus seeing all ages, and gets a kid with some SD, but they also happen to have a URI, if need be can antibiotics be prescribed? or another example, seeing a patient with chronic LBP can you give pain meds? Geez with all the specialties out there it would look like any "primary care" doc (which I think NMM falls into, according to the board) could get sued for prescribing anything.

thanks a bunch for all your input.
 
Hi,

I'd like to see if this thread can be rekindled a bit...

Wondering from those of you that posted in '07, what you have found out regarding NMM/OMT residencies and doctors.

1. how are the programs that are out there, are there truly some that are better than others in terms of the skills obtained? or does it depend on what your looking for (e.g. location, research experience, teaching experience).

Nobody is going to know the answer to this question since nobody is going to have intimate familiarity with all NMM residencies. The dearth of OMM/NMM specialists on this board further complicate the issue (Bones being the only one I can think of though there are some FM trained-and maybe PM&R and pain management-people here, IIRC, that do incorporate OMM. I went to UNE and I believe the OMM department and residency is well respected. Jane Carreiro is an excellent teacher and active researcher. There are other well respected OMM people in and associated with the dept.


2. any new info regarding the "scope of practice" question? For example if a NMM were to have a practice, thus seeing all ages, and gets a kid with some SD, but they also happen to have a URI, if need be can antibiotics be prescribed? or another example, seeing a patient with chronic LBP can you give pain meds? Geez with all the specialties out there it would look like any "primary care" doc (which I think NMM falls into, according to the board) could get sued for prescribing anything.

A person who completed an NMM residency also completed a 1 year rotating medical internship which was followed by licethe NMM training. In practice they would have a medical license and the privileges and responsibilities thereof. If they have a DEA license they would be able to prescribe scheduled drugs and, as they fairly routinely deal with pain management, I would imagine a good few do use some of these meds (though the nature of their training and practice might lead many to avoid prescribing those types of medicines either completely or mostly). Same with antibiotics for respiratory infections (though most URIs do not require antibiotics). If they felt it is indicated and they are comfortable managing the condition, they are legally able to. That said, I would imaging most would refer back to the PCP as it would avoid any potential liability issues and it really would likely be a drag on the practice. If you are an efficient NMM person, it would be a waste of time and, likley money, to be routinely treating primary care issues that the patient isn't there to see you primarily for.

thanks a bunch for all your input.
.
 
Hi,

I'd like to see if this thread can be rekindled a bit...

Wondering from those of you that posted in '07, what you have found out regarding NMM/OMT residencies and doctors.

1. how are the programs that are out there, are there truly some that are better than others in terms of the skills obtained? or does it depend on what your looking for (e.g. location, research experience, teaching experience).

2. any new info regarding the "scope of practice" question? For example if a NMM were to have a practice, thus seeing all ages, and gets a kid with some SD, but they also happen to have a URI, if need be can antibiotics be prescribed? or another example, seeing a patient with chronic LBP can you give pain meds? Geez with all the specialties out there it would look like any "primary care" doc (which I think NMM falls into, according to the board) could get sued for prescribing anything.

thanks a bunch for all your input.

1) It widely varies, as it does with any specialty. I have heard generally good things about Ettlinger's program in NY, KCOM, and MSU. Ultimately I'm afraid you will have to do your own research.

2) Scope of practice is always what you make of it in your training. Your competence determines both your comfort and your risk of litigation. Very few rural docs who do ER are ER board certified- and some are GP's. Having a full medical license and competence is more than enough to work in most rural ERs, regardless of residency. Make sure you are up on your ATLS, ACLS, PALS, and neonatal resuscitation if you go that route.

Personally I don't do much ER anymore, but when I did i found it the OMM diagnostic skill set is incredibly useful for the patients that most ER docs complain about- those in chronic pain or with vague/weird complaints. They are very easy to work up if you know your biomechanics well- usually there is a clear and obvious answer in the biomechanics and then you're done and they are out of your ER- end of story. Also it was very helpful for the chest pain workups- 90% of chest pain in the ER is non-cardiac, and to be able to give a patient a clear answer and send these patients home in no pain every time is priceless (musculoskeletal causes comprise about 40-50%, and another 30% is GI- and a good osteopathic exam can tell you which it is).

I have some time every day blocked for walk ins and urgent care stuff. I choose not to do primary care because I get bored with it. I'm in the business of getting patients better and solving problems- seeing patients back day in and day out for the same issues and doing med refills isn't my thing and isn't a good use of the skills I've worked hard to develop.

I do routine workups for cases that would normally fall under rheumatology, neurology, orthopedics, PM&R and sometimes GI or pulmonology. Some of these patients have been kicked around a lot and docs haven't been able to give them an answer because they did not test the right things. Having good hands and a broad knowledge base (as successful OMM demands) affords you more tools to narrow down your differential diagnosis. Once I have an answer- if I can cure them with OMM I do, if I cannot (autoimmune disease, cancers, occult fracture requiring , pancreatitis, etc.)- I will give them back to their PCP or a specialist for chronic management.

Basically- if you want to be a PCP I'd recommend you do the relevant residency (FM, Peds, IM, OB) and then do a +1 omm, or FP/OMM. That will school you up on the guidelines and nuances of chronic med management- of which there are many.

if you love OMM and want to teach or just master the art of musculoskeletal medicine as a specialist- the strait OMM residency may be a good choice. The closest specialty in scope of practice is PMR.

OMM- you work on all sorts of patients in training but can specialize later if you want to. The goal is comprehensive workup with detailed problem solving and fast cures. You can have hospital privileges and work on ICU patients trying to get off the vent or you can work on newborn babies with messed up heads or poor feeding. If you do it right you have immediate gratification (baby's head looks normal within minutes, or they are able to feed normally within minutes of you working on them). Generally poor evidence base for much of what you do, and poor understanding by the rest of the physician community. It is a vary rare talent and is in HUGE demand nationally (they want noninvasive and cost effective alternatives to the mainstream approach, but they want it administered by a physician that knows what they are doing). You can literally go into any city in the country and have a flourishing practice very quickly. You tend to work solo or in small groups.

PMR- your training is on a variety of patients, but you tend to specialize and work on only one type of patient. Problem solving is somewhat limited to a narrow scope, and the guidelines tell you what to do for treatment. Progress is often very slow, but monitored closely. You tend to work in teams for managing patients. Most physicians understand quickly what you are and what you do, and there is a fairly healthy respect for the specialty. Patient demand for your work is good, but your services are probably more needed in certain areas of the country. Tend to have organized didactic learning and good evidence based medicine and research worked into their training. Good opportunity to go on to other fellowships if you want to do pain, spine or sports med. OMM is a powerful adjunct to help your patients in this specialty, but do not expect anyone to help you improve your skills and dont expect big improvements in your spinal cord injury and stroke patients.


Some OMM docs go on to do other fellowships as well- I've heard of omm specialists doing pain fellowships and sports med. Spine might be possible too. You would have to be a strong candidate and it would still be a somewhat uphill battle (you'd have to prove your competence, and some might require extra training before the fellowship), but still very doable.
 
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