Question about DO and USMLE Step 2CK

[Doctor4Life1769]

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Today I was talking to my Dean of Students at my school in an effort to sign up for Step 2CK and have him sign all the paper work needed. He told me since I did not take USMLE Step 1 it will not help for me to take Step 2CK. He said it would actually hurt me. I was rather confused, and wanted some opinions here. I ask here because I am interested in Anesthesiology for residency. I wanted to see what the outlook was for someone with only a Step 2 score in terms of the allopathic match. Thanks for the advice and any help!

 

[Toughbreak]

A good step 2 score will help

 

[amyl]

be careful of deans at DO schools when applying to MD residencies. i was given some bad advice from DOs about MD anesthesia. I don't know if they just didn't know or were part of some conspiracy to keep me in the DO world. either way they were wrong.
always take the usmle, always. if you do poorly don't report it and pray they don't ask you directly if you took any of the usmles at the interview.
a good score on the usmle will make or break your application, i promise. i am SURE I would not have been given any of my interviews or matched at my #1 without usmle.

 

[BobBarker]

Your dean is purposefully lying to you. Take the test! I know several do's that only took step 2 and they all said it helped them tremendously.

 

[Surfer]

coming next... letting mid-level providers take the USMLE to get into MD residencies.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

coming next... letting mid-level providers take the USMLE to get into MD residencies.

WTF dude? DOs are on the same level as MDs. Get over yourself.

Thank you all for your replies, I'll just insist on my Dean of Students approving the USMLE app regardless

 

[yasha83]

Today I was talking to my Dean of Students at my school in an effort to sign up for Step 2CK and have him sign all the paper work needed. He told me since I did not take USMLE Step 1 it will not help for me to take Step 2CK. He said it would actually hurt me. I was rather confused, and wanted some opinions here. I ask here because I am interested in Anesthesiology for residency. I wanted to see what the outlook was for someone with only a Step 2 score in terms of the allopathic match. Thanks for the advice and any help!

First off, please refrain from feeding the troll.

Secondly, as far as the STEP 2, it can hurt you in the same way any other poor COMLEX score can, by decreasing the overall competitiveness of your application. That being said, it can definitely open more doors to you, even without a step 1. I did not take STEP 1 (but should have); I took 2 and did well. This was brought up on many an interview, and virtually nobody ever asked me why I did not take STEP 1. Places that interview DOs know enough about us to be able to grade/judge the application without these scores, but even one such score (STEP 2 for example) allows them to make an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

[karizma098]

WTF dude? DOs are on the same level as MDs. Get over yourself.

Thank you all for your replies, I'll just insist on my Dean of Students approving the USMLE app regardless

dude's a d-bag, dont' even sweat it. i know there are a lot of older docs out there who have grudges against DO's, it's just sad to see it in the newer generation.

 

[nowooftickets]

I am planning to take step 2 and apply without any step one. At first I thought I would end up in IM and COMLEX was enough (score:87, I'm also from Michigan - lots of DO programs) so I didn't take the USMLE. I think having something for the PD's to look at you by with equal measure against other applicants is important. Study your ass off, take a practice test before and if you do well, take it.If not, don't. It can only hurt if you do poorly.

 

[Surfer]

dude's a d-bag, dont' even sweat it. i know there are a lot of older docs out there who have grudges against DO's, it's just sad to see it in the newer generation.

So are all DO's dbags then? Because MD's cant take the DO boards. Not that they'd want to. But why am i dbag for saying what your board mandates?

i think all medical disciplines should take their own, and only their own, boards. otherwise we are opening ourselves up for all kinds of boundary blurring.

why is that such a dbag thing to say? its what your board does.

 

[RapidSequence]

I think having something for the PD's to look at you by with equal measure against other applicants is important.

BINGO. Applying is a game, much like the rest of life. You take the same boards because you're applying against people who took them. PD's of MD residencies are more familiar with USMLE scores.

Surfer, as a fellow MD who's gone through a world of bullsh*t I understand what you're saying. The scope of our practice and the respect for what we know due to our hard-work is being attacked. But let the poor guy try to create the brightest future he can for himself - whether he's a DO or whoever. You and I will compete and will make our worth known in the work place, even though we'll have to repeatedly prove ourselves because the system's current changes have muddled what medical providers can call themselves which services they may provide.

 

[karizma098]

So are all DO's dbags then? Because MD's cant take the DO boards. Not that they'd want to. But why am i dbag for saying what your board mandates?

i think all medical disciplines should take their own, and only their own, boards. otherwise we are opening ourselves up for all kinds of boundary blurring.

why is that such a dbag thing to say? its what your board does.

if there was any interest in MD's taking the DO board, it would probably happen, but there isn't. A DO is a clinical Doctorate degree equivalent to an MD. we're not new to the game like an NP/DNP is, our school has been around since the 1890's - it's not boundary blurring if both degrees go to medical school with the same exact curriculum and knowledge, do rotations together, etc etc . you should know better. why not shut out MBBS degrees as well? they're not technically an MD either.

i understand that DO students had a lower mcat/gpa ratio earlier on in the game - and they pay for that by not being able to compete for the more competitive residencies after graduation. but claiming that they should be restricted from applying into ACGME residencies is stupid.

obviously your opinion is not shared by even a small number of your MD colleagues, because if that was the case, DO's would not be allowed into the allo match, or we'd hear about MDs crying foul over DO encroachment. does that happen? NO? and it shouldn't, because i think most MD's realize that post graduation, MD = DO. ( Program director bias and public stigma aside..)

it's ridiculous to insinuate that allowing DO's to apply into MD residencies is 'line blurring', as that implies the DO is equivalent to a NP/DNP/CRNA degree, which is a douchey mentality. hence, you are a dbag.

 

[karizma098]

BINGO. Applying is a game, much like the rest of life. You take the same boards because you're applying against people who took them. PD's of MD residencies are more familiar with USMLE scores.

Surfer, as a fellow MD who's gone through a world of bullsh*t I understand what you're saying. The scope of our practice and the respect for what we know due to our hard-work is being attacked. But let the poor guy try to create the brightest future he can for himself - whether he's a DO or whoever. You and I will compete and will make our worth known in the work place, even though we'll have to repeatedly prove ourselves because the system's current changes have muddled what medical providers can call themselves which services they may provide.

ugh, once again dude, wtf?

proving yourself against a midlevel has nothing to do with DO's, our degrees are equivalent and have been so for a long time, what is everyone's freaking deal today. as a graduating medical student in a city with a well known DO school and DO presence, you should know better.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

No need to feed the trolls, I did it once and I'm ashamed of it.

I appreciate all the advice. I'll have to have a chat with my Dean of Students on Monday and get this thing approved soon.

 

[anesthesia2011]

I think if you want to be competitive for the MD match, it can't hurt to take Step 2 even if that's all you took. It for sure doesn't disqualify one from applying to a program so why not? As long as you do good on it.

 

[Wyclef]

My two friends in the class ahead of me who matched into anesthesia (UF and U of Arizona) always advised me to take only the usmle 2 when applying to M.D. anesthesiology programs. If you are confident you will do well, taking usmle step 1 won't hurt either. To me, you could take either one.

 

[IDBasco]

So when a DO takes step 2 is it usually just the CK test, or both?

 

[PhillDOc]

I'm a second year osteopathic student and I'm already frustrated by the lack of objective advice given by my school. I agree with the above posts, that your Dean would rather you only apply to AOA programs AND likely knows nothing about allopathic match. Scary combination, but not uncommon at osteopathic schools.

I have invariably heard that doing well (average or higher) on the USMLE 1 will go further than an above average score on COMLEX alone when it comes to allo gas.

I also agree that taking Step 2 will only help you unless you do poorly. I'm already resigned to the fact that I'll be mostly on my own if I stick with my plan to pursue allopathic gas programs.

This could start an entire new thread, but there is an enormous disconnect between the decision makers/leaders of osteopathic medicine and the way osteopathic medicine is typically practiced. The OMT/primary care osteopath is a dying breed yet remains the governing body for a majority of DO's that are practicing identical medicine to MD's.

 

[cfdavid]

if there was any interest in MD's taking the DO board, it would probably happen, but there isn't. A DO is a clinical Doctorate degree equivalent to an MD. we're not new to the game like an NP/DNP is, our school has been around since the 1890's - it's not boundary blurring if both degrees go to medical school with the same exact curriculum and knowledge, do rotations together, etc etc . you should know better. why not shut out MBBS degrees as well? they're not technically an MD either.

i understand that DO students had a lower mcat/gpa ratio earlier on in the game - and they pay for that by not being able to compete for the more competitive residencies after graduation. but claiming that they should be restricted from applying into ACGME residencies is stupid.

obviously your opinion is not shared by even a small number of your MD colleagues, because if that was the case, DO's would not be allowed into the allo match, or we'd hear about MDs crying foul over DO encroachment. does that happen? NO? and it shouldn't, because i think most MD's realize that post graduation, MD = DO. ( Program director bias and public stigma aside..)

it's ridiculous to insinuate that allowing DO's to apply into MD residencies is 'line blurring', as that implies the DO is equivalent to a NP/DNP/CRNA degree, which is a douchey mentality. hence, you are a dbag.

I agree that we have MUCH bigger fish to fry than MD vs DO for god's sake.

cf

 

[cfdavid]

So when a DO takes step 2 is it usually just the CK test, or both?

Not the best suited to answer, but hey, it's never stopped me before, so why start now....😀

I can NOT see any reason for a DO to take StepII CS, unless they have $1000.00 to "spare" or were told by the PD of their dream program that they require it. In fact, I didn't take Step II CS until I was completely DONE interviewing.

cf

 

[Laryngophed]

Not the best suited to answer, but hey, it's never stopped me before, so why start now....😀

I can NOT see any reason for a DO to take StepII CS, unless they have $1000.00 to "spare" or were told by the PD of their dream program that they require it. In fact, I didn't take Step II CS until I was completely DONE interviewing.

cf

You mean until they threatened not to give you the vellum to hang on the wall, right?

WTF do I know, but this exam seems likes the biggest waste of time and money out there. I realize the purported idea was to make sure FMGs were fluent English speakers but forcing the rest of medical students into is kind of a joke, isn't it? Why not just let each individual program set their own standards for something like ESL. Maybe make passing TOEFL a requirement (a much cheaper option for everyone, if I'm not mistaken) for non-fluent English speakers?

One more time, for the record, WTF do I know.

 

[IDBasco]

Not the best suited to answer, but hey, it's never stopped me before, so why start now....😀

I can NOT see any reason for a DO to take StepII CS, unless they have $1000.00 to "spare" or were told by the PD of their dream program that they require it. In fact, I didn't take Step II CS until I was completely DONE interviewing.

cf

OK, well I just didn't know what the PDs want to see. I am in no hurry to spend any money I don't have to, thats for sure. Not to mention the extra studying and hassle with the other test.

 

[cfdavid]

You mean until they threatened not to give you the vellum to hang on the wall, right?

WTF do I know, but this exam seems likes the biggest waste of time and money out there. I realize the purported idea was to make sure FMGs were fluent English speakers but forcing the rest of medical students into is kind of a joke, isn't it? Why not just let each individual program set their own standards for something like ESL. Maybe make passing TOEFL a requirement (a much cheaper option for everyone, if I'm not mistaken) for non-fluent English speakers?

One more time, for the record, WTF do I know.

Agreed. For US students, the costs really do not justify this "test".

 

[cfdavid]

OK, well I just didn't know what the PDs want to see. I am in no hurry to spend any money I don't have to, thats for sure. Not to mention the extra studying and hassle with the other test.

I seriously can't imagine any PD's would require this. If they do, it would indicate they feel you're a total f.ck up, in which case they wouldn't be interviewing you in the first place...

cf