Question About Post-Doctoral Experience & Job Descriptions

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brightsideup

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A lot of times, I see jobs require the following (or something like it) in addition to an APA approved internship:

"Candidates must have completed a post-doctoral fellowship in clinical psychology or have completed a minimum of one year of supervised experience in clinical or counseling psychology. In addition, a minimum of 2 years post-doctoral experience within the past 5 years in the practice of psychology in the area of clinical or counseling psychology."

My question is, are the post doc fellowship and the 2 year post doc usually part of the PsyD programs or is that something you have to find on your own after you finish the program? I usually see APA internship match rates on the websites, but I don't see anything about fellowships or post docs.
 
Post-docs are something you seek out on your own after internship. Many internships funnel people into post-docs in the same location, but not all do this, and of those that do its not usually a guarantee.

They typically range from 1-3 years. Pay is better than grad school but still substantially less than starting salaries in most academic or clinical settings (I think it typically starts around 37-38k). I'm not there yet, but I've gotten the impression they aren't terribly difficult to find (at least in my area) as long as you've done good work (and lots of it!) in grad school, networked appropriately, and are willing to look broadly.
 
I rambled a bit, but this will give you an idea of what is needed.

My question is, are the post doc fellowship and the 2 year post doc usually part of the PsyD programs or is that something you have to find on your own after you finish the program? I usually see APA internship match rates on the websites, but I don't see anything about fellowships or post docs.

PsyD and Ph.D. students have to go through the same process for internship, post-doc, etc. The pre-doctoral internship happens after your classwork is completed and whatever other requirements your program has before you are allowed to apply.

Internship
The internship process is handled through APPIC, who works with a 3rd party to match students to placements. The internship lasts for 1 year (with the exception being 2 year 1/2 time options) and is a requirement for licensure.


Post-Doc
The next step is to find a post-doc. There are some states that don't require them, but the vast majority of people complete them as part of the final steps towards licensure. States vary on what they will accept for hours, so it is important to complete hours that count towards your state's licensure. This post-doctoral experience can be either a formalized placement or an informal placement.

Formal Post-Doc
A formal post-doc can look similar to an internship placement in that it is an established position where the person completes training, and is often "accredited" or approved by a 3rd party. They have a "match" system for certain post-docs, depending on what you want to do. For example, there are formal 2-year neuro post docs that were established to meet the Houston Conference guidelines and are meant for students looking to be boarded as a neuropsychologist.

As an aside, the "fellowship" term stems from academia, though it is used in many settings.

Informal Post-Doc
The difference between a formal and informal post-doc tends to be in structure and sometimes requirements. An informal post-doc can be an agreement between a licensed psychologist and the student, whereas supervision and related things are agreed upon for a certain number of hours over a set period of time. Informal post-docs are common in private practice, though it is important to make sure the arrangement meets your state's requirements, as certain states are quite picky about what hours "qualify".

The responsibility of securing a placement is on the student, though your internship site and/or program often assist the student in finding a placement. The "match" rate for post-docs is not included with programs because you technically graduate after internship from your program. Some programs may vary, but in general this is the case. Post-doc placement is more important to internship sites because they want to attract top talent to their placements, and/or have an opportunity to retain them.

The process of applying to post-docs is generally looser than the internship process, though not always. Many times your internship site offers post-doc placements on site and/or at a related site, so students often stay on to continue their training. This is popular at counseling centers, as well as hospitals and a range of other placements. Post-doc placements can be just as competitive or more competitive than internship placements, but if you came from at least a decent APA-accredited program, completed an APA-accredited internship, then you shouldn't have that much trouble securing a placement.

EPPP
The EPPP is an exam you have to take before you can be licensed. Some states allow for you to take it after the internship year, some allow it during the post-doc year, and others require it after your post-doc hours.

The bottom line is you need to have your classwork, research, internship hours, post-doc hours, and a passing grade on the EPPP before you can apply for licensure.

Now for your other questions…..

The advertisement is asking for the person to complete at least a 1 year post-doctoral experience, and that they have had at least 2 years of clinical/counseling experience within the last 5 years. Since some clinicians stop clinical work after post-doc and work in other areas, they don't want someone who is jumping back into the market, as that may require more training and resources to get them back up to speed. In general jobs will specify that 1-2 (or more) years of experience are required after post-doc, as all hours through the post-doc years are considered training hours. It is akin to a job requiring at least x-amount of years working in a specific field (which doesn't include an internship during college, etc).
 
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