Question about Private Practice

[cutemara]

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Hi all,


I'm a new graduate working my first job as an associate for a general dentistry clinic and not too happy with how things are going so far. I was just wondering if my job is pretty standard across the board for a new graduate?

Currently my contract states:
35% of collections minus lab fees and credit card fees (the average for this area is 40 to 45%).
Days off per year including vacation days and sick days and CE are last week of July and first week of August and Christmas.
30 day termination policy.
All the collections from your last two months held for six months after you leave.


So basically what I want to know is whether this contract is standard?
Am I getting ripped off?

Please advise!

 

[djeffreyt]

Doesn't sound horrible.

I had an independent contractor contract once that was 30% of collections with no lab fees. 6 months post leaving of continued payment on collections. No contractual agreed upon notice of termination. No vacation days, but only worked 4.5 days a week and could just request time off as needed and was never denied. Normal holidays off.

I also had an employee contract with a minimum of $12,000 a month and 17% of production (whichever was higher for the month). Free CE, no sick days and 5 vacation days a year. 90 day required termination notice and 5 days a week. No lab fees.

My latest one is pretty flexible on days I work. If I request it, it is unlikely I won't get it...but I'm not paid if I don't work. I get 25% of production, have to pay 25% of my lab fees, work 5 days a week, I get some CE, about half of what I need for my license renewal and pay the rest myself. I'm at will so I can leave or be fired without notice.

 

[cutemara]

Doesn't sound horrible.

I had an independent contractor contract once that was 30% of collections with no lab fees. 6 months post leaving of continued payment on collections. No contractual agreed upon notice of termination. No vacation days, but only worked 4.5 days a week and could just request time off as needed and was never denied. Normal holidays off.

I also had an employee contract with a minimum of $12,000 a month and 17% of production (whichever was higher for the month). Free CE, no sick days and 5 vacation days a year. 90 day required termination notice and 5 days a week. No lab fees.

My latest one is pretty flexible on days I work. If I request it, it is unlikely I won't get it...but I'm not paid if I don't work. I get 25% of production, have to pay 25% of my lab fees, work 5 days a week, I get some CE, about half of what I need for my license renewal and pay the rest myself. I'm at will so I can leave or be fired without notice.

I'm sorry, I didn't understand what you meant by free CE?
The CE issue is something I'm concerned about. I'm a new graduate and have never done this before and I need to submit 7 hours of CE by December to meet the requirements for this year and with no time off, I'm not sure where or how to get the CE hours...

 

[HupHolland]

you can get cheap, good CE on dentaltown. also, pretty sure the crest website has free ce for professionals?

hup

 

[djeffreyt]

What I meant by Free CE is that the Employer paid for me to take some CE courses and/or provided CE courses to me. Since I worked for a company, they had enough employeed dentist that they could get speakers to come out on various topics. In fact we have an implant restoration CE this week.

But you can get other forms of free CE. You can get free CE on dentaltown as suggested. You can also do fairly cheap CE using certain dental magazines. But of course, hands on courses are usually way better.

I'm a little confused though, how do you already have to submit CE as a new graduate. I don't know of any states that require CE within the first year of licensure.

 

[bicuspiddude]

It's the reason why I left private practice....
After GPR, I was in private practice. Long hours...Compensation was ehh. Base $500.00+28% of production after $2500 in production.. Felt burnt out after 1 year in the private sector..
California.
I transition into govt sector. More time. Less stress. Compensation is adequate.
You make money from investment and real estate.

 

[HupHolland]

There are good and bad jobs in the private sector. For new graduates, most are not so good. However, some are great. I'm making 30% collections (which translates into 27% production), pay no lab fee, owner is paying for CE at regional conference. I'm producing, on average, $3000/day. Do the math and I'm grossing $162,000 first year out, working 4 days/week. This is in a comprehensive, family and cosmetic practice, not some unethical corporate greed mill. Not bad....

hup

 

[Contach]

wow.. 3000 / day! Can you elaborate on how many of each procedure you need to do to gross 3k? I thought I remember shadowing dentists before dental school and for him, 1400 gross / day would be a good day.

There are good and bad jobs in the private sector. For new graduates, most are not so good. However, some are great. I'm making 30% collections (which translates into 27% production), pay no lab fee, owner is paying for CE at regional conference. I'm producing, on average, $3000/day. Do the math and I'm grossing $162,000 first year out, working 4 days/week. This is in a comprehensive, family and cosmetic practice, not some unethical corporate greed mill. Not bad....

hup

 

[HupHolland]

my last friday..
MORNING
3x 2 surface amalgams (1.5 hrs)
crown delivery (30 min)
2 surface resin (30 min)
denture adj (15 min)
lim exam - broken tooth, core build up (30 min)
lim exam - porcelain fracture crown, tx plan new crown
AFTERNOON
prep 8 + 9 for all ceramic crowns (1.5 hrs)
jaw relations (30 min)
2x 1 surface resins (30 min)
2x 2 surface resins (60 min)

throw in some "emergencies", hygiene exams, and I easily produced over $4000.

hup

ps - $1400/day is WAY BELOW AVERAGE

 

[Halcion]

Hup-- are you in a practice that is primarily/all PPO and FFS? That's awesome. I really wish I had an opportunity like yours. Believe it or not, I think most of us could easily produce $3000+ per day on PPO and FFS. Unfortunately, for me, where I work, we take every insurance under the sun, which means lots of HMO patients. The difference between the private and corporate sector is you will work a lot harder for not as much money, unless of course you are over-diagnosing.

 

[HupHolland]

we are a FFS/PPO office - we wrote off 9% last year to insurance. And yes, I agree, that just about anyone can produce $3000/day at the right office. Unfortunately, most new grads are working at practices that accept every insurance imaginable or at offices that don't have enough patients for the associate to treat.

hup

 

[cutemara]

we are a FFS/PPO office - we wrote off 9% last year to insurance. And yes, I agree, that just about anyone can produce $3000/day at the right office. Unfortunately, most new grads are working at practices that accept every insurance imaginable or at offices that don't have enough patients for the associate to treat.

hup

How many years of experience do you think a new grad would need before landing a "decent" associateship? I know it probably depends on the person and how quickly they pick things up and whether they have done a GPR or not but a rough average would be great!
Also wondering, would it work against you to change practices every so often? I have heard that a dentist interviewing for associate positions would probably frown on someone who's changed practices often...

 

[HupHolland]

there is no "average." my first gig out of AEGD residency turned out to be a good one. I have other friends with not-so-good gigs - those friends are working in the saturated markets of NYC and DC.

yes, it would work against you to change practices often. it's a red flag. obviously, if the practice is using and abusing you, then do what you have to do. but, I would avoid jumping ship over and over again chasing a better contract. your income typically goes up as patients of the practice gain trust in you - this doesn't happen overnight, but instead over a long period of time!

hup

 

[ziptree]

As a comparison, I work in a nice office. 6-9% Medicaid. Mostly FFS, some PPO. We're not in-network with anyone except Delta Dental Premier and we adjust to UCR for patients who are out of network.

My first year was 30% of production. I paid my lab fees, which wasn't all that much since we do CAD/CAM dentistry. Lab fees consisted of occlusal splints, FPDs, RPDs/CDs. 1 week paid vacation at the end of the first year.

Second year, I was bumped up to 32.5% of production. Same deal with the lab fees and vacation.

Third year, I'm at 35% of production but I also help "manage" the boss' second office. Is the extra work worth the increase in percentage? Nope. But I'm learning a lot about management and staff for when I open my own office.

We work only 4.5 days a week and produced ~$800,000 in dentistry my second year and am on track to produce ~$920,000 this year.

 

[pendejodo]

how is the best to look for jobs in private sector