Question about the cycle AFTER April 30th

[456432]

I was fortunately accepted to more than one MD school, but I am on the WL at 3 schools (one of which is my dream school). By April 30th, I realize I must withdraw from all accepted schools except one but I can stay on the WL at all 3 WLed schools.

My question is: if I get accepted off 2 or all 3 of those WLs after April 30th, can I hold onto ALL those acceptances (until the earliest CTE deadline for those schools) or can I hold onto only ONE acceptance at any given time?

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[14_karat]

You need to give the acceptances up so that you only have one. You will have a certain time period to choose between As...like maybe 48 hours.

 

[KnightDoc]

I was fortunately accepted to more than one MD school, but I am on the WL at 3 schools (one of which is my dream school). By April 30th, I realize I must withdraw from all accepted schools except one but I can stay on the WL at all 3 WLed schools.

My question is: if I get accepted off 2 or all 3 of those WLs after April 30th, can I hold onto ALL those acceptances (until the earliest CTE deadline for those schools) or can I hold onto only ONE acceptance at any given time?

You will be given time (typically a week, but, as stated above, it will vary by school) to make a decision when you receive an A after 4/30. It's NOT "anything goes" between 4/30 and your earliest CTE date! 🙂 It's actually just like before 4/30. You can only have one A, and that A will expect to be your PTE.

You can do this each time you receive an A until your CTE date, but, schools need to know what you are doing so they can either sign you up or move on to the next person on the WL. Just like before 4/30.

 

[KnightDoc]

It is up to EACH school to set their policy on this and it is up to you to know it . Frankly. if you hold an acceptance and then get off WL will assume you want the WL and may give you a very short time to decide. If you get a WL acceptance, it may require to drop all WL at that point . You need to make sure you stay on top of this and not assume anything

This will NEVER be true unless their CTE date has already passed! There is no separate set of rules for people receiving As from WLs, other than reduced time to make a PTE decision post-4/30.

As has been said before (by me! 🙂), schools can't "require" you to drop WLs because they can't see WLs. The enforcement mechanism is the CTE election, since that tells WL schools that you are committed to another school, and typically causes them to remove you from the WL if you haven't already withdrawn.

 

[KnightDoc]

You misunderstood. The OPs question was if get off WL. If you get off a WL via acceptance after 4/30, you will now be holding 2 acceptances. Your original acceptance (when you had a single acceptance) will now see you have acceptance. That means you had a WL (which the first school couldnt see) became an acceptance (which they now can see). And possibly one or both schools in this scenario may have short time frame to clarify your acceptance. And as the cycle gets later, you can get the situation where:

-School A: you have acceptance; later CTE date.
-School B: you have WL, early CTE date
-School C: you have WL, later CTE date

you then get acceptance from School B past their CTE date, which then may require with short time frame to drop acceptance at School A and drop WL at School C, even though either has not yet reached CTE. So while School B cannot see School C WL their policy can require withdraw from WL at School C

No!!! Please don't misunderstand me, because I totally LOVE you. You have taught me a ton over the past two years. But, you are not fully absorbing how the CYMS tool works. The original A school will not see ANYTHING unless and until OP selects the new A as PTE. Schools CANNOT see other As or WLs. Not before 4/30, and not after. They can only see other PTEs/CTEs after 4/30.

After 4/30, if you receive an A, you only have to deal with whatever parameters the new school sets to make a decision. The existing A school will not see anything, and does not have the right or ability to approve anything with respect to what you do with your new A. Your deadline to drop one of the As is whatever the new school says, with zero input from the existing school.

You are, of course, correct that a WL that becomes an A after a school's CTE date can require you to select CTE and withdraw from all other WLs. That is exactly what I said in my post above.

 

[KnightDoc]

And you are misunderstanding me. Each school will have a policy, regardless of the CYMS tool. The decision here shouldnt be made based on what can or cannot be seen as PTE/CTE. It should be based on an acceptee ethically following the policy and rules that he/she/they have already agreed to adhere to with each school, which in most cases includes use of CYMS as required.

Very fair points!!! The way you conduct yourself as an advisor, providing an incredible amount of free advice here on SDN, and turning away paid business when you do not believe you can add value, makes you one of the most ethical people I have ever encountered.

Wouldn't you agree that it is not unethical to follow the parameters of the new school, without regard to what might be in the best interest of the existing school, until you have had sufficient time and all the necessary information to make a decision? AAMC set the system up specifically to deny the existing school the ability to place pressure on you, by not allowing them to see As. Is it unethical to take advantage of this, and act in your own best interest?

 

[Med Ed]

I was fortunately accepted to more than one MD school, but I am on the WL at 3 schools (one of which is my dream school). By April 30th, I realize I must withdraw from all accepted schools except one but I can stay on the WL at all 3 WLed schools.

My question is: if I get accepted off 2 or all 3 of those WLs after April 30th, can I hold onto ALL those acceptances (until the earliest CTE deadline for those schools) or can I hold onto only ONE acceptance at any given time?

Hate to interrupt the lovefest, but here is the simplest way I have found to think of this: after April 30 do not select PTE at more than one school at any given time.

Schools can only see the information that you, the applicant, puts into CYMS. And a given school can't see anything unless it accepts you.

Say you have narrowed your decision to one school, School A (Alice), by April 30. You PTE with Alice and stay on a few waitlists. Shortly thereafter, School B (Beatrice) offers you a seat with five business days to decide. Until you change something in CYMS, all Alice can see is that you are PTE with her, and all Beatrice can see is that you PTE with one other school. If you opt for Beatrice, then you go into CYMS and switch your PTE from Alice to Beatrice. You send Alice a nice note and she moves on.

To avoid any problems you just have to not PTE with both Alice and Beatrice at the same time. If you do that, both schools can log into CYMS and see that you PTE at multiple institutions, which is against policy and can lead to rescinding of both acceptances.

 

[KnightDoc]

Hate to interrupt the lovefest, but here is the simplest way I have found to think of this: after April 30 do not select PTE at more than one school at any given time.

Schools can only see the information that you, the applicant, puts into CYMS. And a given school can't see anything unless it accepts you.

Say you have narrowed your decision to one school, School A (Alice), by April 30. You PTE with Alice and stay on a few waitlists. Shortly thereafter, School B (Beatrice) offers you a seat with five business days to decide. Until you change something in CYMS, all Alice can see is that you are PTE with her, and all Beatrice can see is that you PTE with one other school. If you opt for Beatrice, then you go into CYMS and switch your PTE from Alice to Beatrice. You send Alice a nice note and she moves on.

To avoid any problems you just have to not PTE with both Alice and Beatrice at the same time. If you do that, both schools can log into CYMS and see that you PTE at multiple institutions, which is against policy and can lead to rescinding of both acceptances.

The system does not allow the selection of more than one PTE/CTE at ANY time, so that was never an issue! 🙂

Everything else you are saying is exactly how the system works. The issues only arise when, for example, one or both of the schools do not require a PTE selection. Believe it or not, there are multiple schools like that out there. This allows candidates to game the system by breaking the "rules" and holding multiple As.

The other possibility, as @gonnif is suggesting, is where Alice has some requirement that goes beyond the protocols regarding what to do when you receive that second A, but does not have an independent ability to enforce. Maybe they want you to inform them right away, maybe they won't "allow" you hold the two As for the full amount of time allowed by Beatrice, etc.

@gonnif is suggesting candidates have some moral imperative to blindly obey, even when there is no enforcement mechanism, because we are going to be responsible for patients someday and need to learn to kowtow to authority without question now, because, after all, we agreed to as a term and condition of being permitted to submit an application in the first place. I, on the other hand, do not consider it unethical to navigate the unfair playing field to the best of my ability, even when that means placing my interests above those of a large institution choosing to use its market power to its advantage and against mine.

 

[KnightDoc]

so here is where Law and Medicine differ. In law you look for using the system for your client in anyway possible to get their advantage. You are working for them. In medicine your client is the patient and that needs to be addressed even as a premed. You want a doctor who thought it was fine to get around the system to just get into medical school? How many patients have suffered because doctors tried to get around some obstacle they could?

And just to note, the AMCAS CYMS decentralized system was setup in response to rule changes by DOE under the previous administration by their chief of student aid enforcement, a former DeVry University Official, former parent of Ross and AUC off-shore schools. As one senator noted this was sending the fox to guard the hen house. Hopefully, they will reverse this rule change under the new administration (which can take 1-2 years in process) and get rid of this god awful CYMS system

Was it in response to that? You know way more than me when it comes to the politics, but I was led to believe in was response to actual and threatened private litigation involving the admissions process, and fears of being accused of restraint of trade and collusion, that caused AAMC to just remove itself from the process.

I agree that MAR and NAR definitely helped the schools, and probably helped candidates by giving schools the comfort to confidently predict yield and issue As accordingly. It probably also helped schools reduce price competition by giving them a window into who had what, where, which allowed them to potentially avoid situations where candidates would be able to effectively negotiate price. So, there was probably some validity to the concerns, which is probably at least partially why we are where we are today.

If only all schools used the system as intended (e.g., requiring use of PTE), and if only they would agree on a common CTE date (as they have on all other common dates -- 10/15, 4/15, 4/30, etc.), the vast majority of issues with CYMS would fall away.

 

[Med Ed]

The system does not allow the selection of more than one PTE/CTE at ANY time, so that was never an issue! 🙂

I said simplest. Not most accurate. You're ruining the ambience.

But I always appreciate a stickler. 😎

 

[KnightDoc]

I said simplest. Not most accurate. You're ruining the ambience.

But I always appreciate a stickler. 😎

Sorry -- I should have given you more credit!! 😎

 

[456432]

You need to give the acceptances up so that you only have one. You will have a certain time period to choose between As...like maybe 48 hours.

It is up to EACH school to set their policy on this and it is up to you to know it . Frankly. if you hold an acceptance and then get off WL will assume you want the WL and may give you a very short time to decide. If you get a WL acceptance, it may require to drop all WL at that point . You need to make sure you stay on top of this and not assume anything

Before anything gets too wild in here, these both have answered my OP well lmao. Ty!