Question for Engineers (and physicists) in Medical School

[pgoyal]

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Hello Engineers,

Assuming you found your engineering classes and problem sets intellectually stimulating, do you/did you find your first two years of medical school equally so?

Perhaps some classes more so than others? (ie. immuno, neuro).

 

[Smokemont]

Hello Engineers,

Assuming you found your engineering classes and problem sets intellectually stimulating, do you/did you find your first two years of medical school equally so?

Perhaps some classes more so than others? (ie. immuno, neuro).

I wouldn't say equally so, simply because to do well in med school you have to memorize a lot. Engineering classes were almost always based on understanding concepts and not memorizing, i.e. you were allowed cheat sheets for engineering exams eliminating the need to memorize equations. I'm glad I have my engineering background but I am where I want to be.

 

[Textbookversion]

So I guess it depends what you mean by intellectually stimulating.

Is the material interesting? Yes, in general it is very interesting to me.

Is it hard to learn? Yes, but only because of the large volume.

Is the material hard to understand? No, very very rarely is it confusing and usually that is because the professor did a poor job on the slides. There are so many resources online for medical students it's not hard to find an explanation. The material covered in medical schools is pretty uniform, so all you need to do is poke around a bit and you'll find some awesome video that makes it all super clear. And if you can't figure it out you do slightly worse on the test and move on, w/e.

In college in engineering/physics/math classes when I did well on tests I felt SMART. They could give you a stack of textbooks and infinite time on the test, and at the end of the day it was how smart you were at figuring out those problems that got you an A. The textbooks/cheat sheet were only good for getting formulas, the problems required you to understand difficult concepts. Medicine isn't like that at all.

In medical school it's more like, well I put in more time this week woopdeedooo I win at self-control and not having a life. Tune in next week to see if I keep it up. I'm convinced intelligence matters maybe in how long you have to study to get the same score and maybe +/-3% on the score you get but in the end very little.

 

[pgoyal]

appreciate the feedback man. but just wondering, would you say your happy with your choice?

If your already in your rotations/have some idea about it - does it get more exciting then (i.e. more problem solving based) or is there still >60% emphasis on memorization (symptoms, protocols, etc)

also notice any difference in personality/approach to medicine in yourself compared to your non-engineer colleagues?

So I guess it depends what you mean by intellectually stimulating.

Is the material interesting? Yes, in general it is very interesting to me.

Is it hard to learn? Yes, but only because of the large volume.

Is the material hard to understand? No, very very rarely is it confusing and usually that is because the professor did a poor job on the slides. There are so many resources online for medical students it's not hard to find an explanation. The material covered in medical schools is pretty uniform, so all you need to do is poke around a bit and you'll find some awesome video that makes it all super clear. And if you can't figure it out you do slightly worse on the test and move on, w/e.

In college in engineering/physics/math when I did well on tests I felt SMART. They could give you a stack of textbooks and infinite time on the test, and at the end of the day it was how smart you were at figuring out those problems that got you an A. The textbooks/cheat sheet were only good for getting formulas, the problems required you to understand difficult concepts. Medicine isn't like that at all.

In medical school it's more like, well I put in more time this week woopdeedooo I win at self-control and not having a life. Tune in next week to see if I keep it up. I'm convinced intelligence matters maybe in how long you have to study to get the same score and maybe +/-3% on the score you get but in the end very little.

 

[Textbookversion]

appreciate the feedback man. but just wondering, would you say your happy with your choice?

If your already in your rotations/have some idea about it - does it get more exciting then (i.e. more problem solving based) or is there still >60% emphasis on memorization (symptoms, protocols, etc)

also notice any difference in personality/approach to medicine in yourself compared to your non-engineer colleagues?

I'm happy with my choice. I'm not doing rotations yet so I couldn't tell you. Those in my family who are practicing physicians have told me there is more problem solving, but still lots of memorization.

I tend to like everyone so IDK I'm not really judgmental. I'm always impressed by how knowledgeable everyone is right before the test. It's like wow I accomplished that impossible task of learning 300 new things this weekend... and so did everyone else. It's nice to be around driven people. I wish I had more free time to do non-school things with people.

Don't do medicine if you aren't ready for it to become your life.

 

[Josh7]

So I guess it depends what you mean by intellectually stimulating.

Is the material interesting? Yes, in general it is very interesting to me.

Is it hard to learn? Yes, but only because of the large volume.

Is the material hard to understand? No, very very rarely is it confusing and usually that is because the professor did a poor job on the slides. There are so many resources online for medical students it's not hard to find an explanation. The material covered in medical schools is pretty uniform, so all you need to do is poke around a bit and you'll find some awesome video that makes it all super clear. And if you can't figure it out you do slightly worse on the test and move on, w/e.

In college in engineering/physics/math classes when I did well on tests I felt SMART. They could give you a stack of textbooks and infinite time on the test, and at the end of the day it was how smart you were at figuring out those problems that got you an A. The textbooks/cheat sheet were only good for getting formulas, the problems required you to understand difficult concepts. Medicine isn't like that at all.

In medical school it's more like, well I put in more time this week woopdeedooo I win at self-control and not having a life. Tune in next week to see if I keep it up. I'm convinced intelligence matters maybe in how long you have to study to get the same score and maybe +/-3% on the score you get but in the end very little.

Honestly that doesn't sound like an enjoyable change of material. I'm an undergrad and I've definitely enjoyed my engineering courses more than biology (I've liked both in different ways though). But in the long run I think that being a doctor would be a more interesting career path than an engineer, to me.

 

[sazerac]

Hello Engineers,

Assuming you found your engineering classes and problem sets intellectually stimulating, do you/did you find your first two years of medical school equally so?

Perhaps some classes more so than others? (ie. immuno, neuro).

I used to be an engineer, so I think I understand what you are asking, more so than some other responders. The answer is no. At least no, not in the sense of that engineering high we know and love.

Don't get me wrong, medicine is great, and in classes like physiology there are the kinds of equations and knowledge about the way the world works and stuff, but it is fleeting and often interrupted by empirical evidence about what can go wrong and it is often named after some obscure 19th century scientist. Medicine may seek explanations in chemistry and physics, but fundamentally in the manner that it serves its patients best medicine is much more like biology and even psychology.

It's fun, it's enjoyable, it's even interesting in its own way, but it ain't like engineering. Your peers will still be hella-smart, but in a different way than your fellow engineers. If you approach the career as an amusing and practical profession that involves more people skills up front, you will do fine.

 

[pgoyal]

sounds like sound advice, thanks.

in your opinion, are rotations more the same? something along the lines of memorizing treatment "algorithms"?

If you approach the career as an amusing and practical profession that involves more people skills up front, you will do fine.

 

[ophthope]

It's fun, it's enjoyable, it's even interesting in its own way, but it ain't like engineering. Your peers will still be hella-smart, but in a different way than your fellow engineers. If you approach the career as an amusing and practical profession that involves more people skills up front, you will do fine.

Another engineer-turned med student here and I second what sazerac said. Conversely if you approach engineering as a profession that involves people skills you will likely be disappointed. There's not a lot of interpersonal interaction outside of meetings. I hated it!

 

[Smokemont]

I used to be an engineer, so I think I understand what you are asking, more so than some other responders. The answer is no. At least no, not in the sense of that engineering high we know and love.

Don't get me wrong, medicine is great, and in classes like physiology there are the kinds of equations and knowledge about the way the world works and stuff, but it is fleeting and often interrupted by empirical evidence about what can go wrong and it is often named after some obscure 19th century scientist. Medicine may seek explanations in chemistry and physics, but fundamentally in the manner that it serves its patients best medicine is much more like biology and even psychology.

It's fun, it's enjoyable, it's even interesting in its own way, but it ain't like engineering. Your peers will still be hella-smart, but in a different way than your fellow engineers. If you approach the career as an amusing and practical profession that involves more people skills up front, you will do fine.

Most likely the people who responded are engineers. I didn't used to be one, I am one. Everything else you said is dead on though. I have been amazed by how "smart" my peers are in med school. And yes, engineers I found to have much less people skills than my current colleagues.

 

[FSU2013]

Physics major here -

Nearly all of med school is memorization. The stuff that is cool is often times not how the body works, but what happens when it fails. Stuff like neglect syndrome where you learn about it and say "really?"

I, personally, thought immuno was mind numbingly boring.

Remember, no one says "yay, I get to go to med school" - you say "yay, I'm gonna be a doctor.". Med school is a means to an ends and it is worth it for most of the people that go. I will probably never be intellectually challenged in the same way I was when I took quantum or thermo, but I'm using my brain to help people and that's rewarding in a better way. I think medicine requires a much, much larger knowledge base than physics/engineering and the problem solving is fundamentally much more straight forward, but you don't always know what details are pertinent. For example, in kinematics, you know that you need to know angle, velocity, accelleration, etc. But if someone comes in with chest pain and a cough, you don't know if they're related. Like I said, I think the level of thought is higher in physics/engineering, but your abilities to determine what is pertinent and to what extent is much more in medicine.

Just my $0.02 - hope that didn't offend anyone. And im def not saying medicine is easy.

 

[pgoyal]

thnx for the feedback man. somewhat along the lines I suspected but as you said means to an end. uggh not looking forward to memorization though, i have terrible time focusing and retaining what I read.

Physics major here -

Nearly all of med school is memorization. The stuff that is cool is often times not how the body works, but what happens when it fails. Stuff like neglect syndrome where you learn about it and say "really?"

I, personally, thought immuno was mind numbingly boring.

Remember, no one says "yay, I get to go to med school" - you say "yay, I'm gonna be a doctor.". Med school is a means to an ends and it is worth it for most of the people that go. I will probably never be intellectually challenged in the same way I was when I took quantum or thermo, but I'm using my brain to help people and that's rewarding in a better way. I think medicine requires a much, much larger knowledge base than physics/engineering and the problem solving is fundamentally much more straight forward, but you don't always know what details are pertinent. For example, in kinematics, you know that you need to know angle, velocity, accelleration, etc. But if someone comes in with chest pain and a cough, you don't know if they're related. Like I said, I think the level of thought is higher in physics/engineering, but your abilities to determine what is pertinent and to what extent is much more in medicine.

Just my $0.02 - hope that didn't offend anyone. And im def not saying medicine is easy.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I was an astronomy/astrophysics major in college. Med school has some interesting topics, but none of it was nearly as interesting as any of the physics and engineering stuff I did in college. Moreover, it wasn't as thought-provoking or intellectually stimulating. The basic science years are really just a memorization cluster**** that you have to get through to actually start applying things. Even once clinicals (and residency) start, though, you won't be turning your brain on quite like the physical sciences require.

 

[pgoyal]

i see. but would you say your happy with your choice? would you do it again?

do you get time to indulge in side readings/projects?

I was an astronomy/astrophysics major in college. Med school has some interesting topics, but none of it was nearly as interesting as any of the physics and engineering stuff I did in college. Moreover, it wasn't as thought-provoking or intellectually stimulating. The basic science years are really just a memorization cluster**** that you have to get through to actually start applying things. Even once clinicals (and residency) start, though, you won't be turning your brain on quite like the physical sciences require.

 

[Mdard]

I was a biophysics major in undergrad, and I concur with most above; med school content is shallow, breadth is huge. Therefore, a lot of memorizing.

My most interesting topic in undergrad had me spending 4+ hrs a day every day last quarter designing an experiment for sub-diffraction-limited imaging. It was pretty darn cool, except no one cared. I only spoke to my one lab partner and my teacher. Couldn't figure it out. Learned so much stuff I will never, ever use again (and have subsequently forgot).

Is medicine worth it? Besides all the cliche reasons us physicists/engineers say we chose medicine, the information is interesting because it applies to humans. Their is a wonder and awe associated with the physiologic understanding of the body, and how disease and pharmacology affects it, that I never found in physics. It's not nearly as complicated, but its much better.

 

[pgoyal]

Followup question for everyone above, would you say the knowledge you learn and subsequently use to treat patients is mostly following algorithms? i.e. order test X, based on results prescribe Y treatment or do a followup test Z. is there truth to that article "do we need doctors or algorithms"

or are there sufficient unique patients requiring a different approach to keep you guys stimulated

 

[Sheldor]

i see. but would you say your happy with your choice? would you do it again?

do you get time to indulge in side readings/projects?

I was also a physics major, and agree with all the comments above. I just wanted to point out that there are a few medical specialties that are perfect for people who fear that they may miss at least thinking about physics/engineering. Look into Rad Onc, Radiology, Nuclear Medicine and to some extent IR.

I enjoy physics research and so I'm interviewing for Rad Onc right now, a great way to see patients and still play with linear accelerators.

 

[FSU2013]

I was also a physics major, and agree with all the comments above. I just wanted to point out that there are a few medical specialties that are perfect for people who fear that they may miss at least thinking about physics/engineering. Look into Rad Onc, Radiology, Nuclear Medicine and to some extent IR.

I enjoy physics research and so I'm interviewing for Rad Onc right now, a great way to see patients and still play with linear accelerators.

To piggyback on what Sheldor said:

I came to med school planning on going into radonc but ended up deciding on EM. I NEVER thought I could be happy doing something other than physics. I actually was pretty torn when I decided to get an MD instead of a PhD in physics, but interests change. Go into medicine because you want to be a doc and you'll find the right place for you. If you're smart enough to get a degree in engineering or physics and be successful in med school, you're smart enough to find some area of medicine that will satisfy you intellectually and personally.

 

[muhali3]

I was an astronomy/astrophysics major in college. Med school has some interesting topics, but none of it was nearly as interesting as any of the physics and engineering stuff I did in college. Moreover, it wasn't as thought-provoking or intellectually stimulating. The basic science years are really just a memorization cluster**** that you have to get through to actually start applying things. Even once clinicals (and residency) start, though, you won't be turning your brain on quite like the physical sciences require.

I believe you are going into Gas, correct? Do you find that to be the most intellectually satisfying specialty for someone like yourself? Would you have rather gone into physics/engineering if you could go back in time?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Moving to pre-allo

 

[spf15]

So I guess it depends what you mean by intellectually stimulating.

In medical school it's more like, well I put in more time this week woopdeedooo I win at self-control and not having a life. Tune in next week to see if I keep it up. I'm convinced intelligence matters maybe in how long you have to study to get the same score and maybe +/-3% on the score you get but in the end very little.

I'm into physics as well, and I'm so afraid that I'll find medical school boring once I get there. So what keeps you guys going, then? One of my professors warned me about this, saying that I reminded her of herself (she dropped out of medical school because she didn't like the memorization ).

 

[Sheldor]

I'm into physics as well, and I'm so afraid that I'll find medical school boring once I get there. So what keeps you guys going, then? One of my professors warned me about this, saying that I reminded her of herself (she dropped out of medical school because she didn't like the memorization ).

Most medical schools have an associated Rad Onc department, and most of those have physics faculty that are active in research. Go, talk to them, and get involved!

It doesn't replace the sometimes boring memorization but it will give you an outlet for deeper thought while improving your CV!

 

[FSU2013]

I'm into physics as well, and I'm so afraid that I'll find medical school boring once I get there. So what keeps you guys going, then? One of my professors warned me about this, saying that I reminded her of herself (she dropped out of medical school because she didn't like the memorization ).

It also help when you remind yourself that it's a job. Every job has things you don't like. When you remember that you're going to get paid (well) to use your mind to save peoples' lives, the rote memorization and long hours are worth it.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I believe you are going into Gas, correct? Do you find that to be the most intellectually satisfying specialty for someone like yourself? Would you have rather gone into physics/engineering if you could go back in time?

i see. but would you say your happy with your choice? would you do it again?

do you get time to indulge in side readings/projects?

I'm happy with my choice, but I definitely wouldn't go into medicine again, knowing what I know now. I probably would've done either pharm school, astornomy, or market modeling/analysis instead. Maybe that opinion will change once I'm FINALLY doing what I want, but I doubt it. The sacrifices a career in medicine requires are fairly extreme and come during the prime of your life.

Yes, I'm doing gas, and it's a great fit for me. I do, indeed, find it more stimulating than most specialties, and I enjoy the pace of the field. You've got to know your physiology pretty well and be able to manipulate it on the fly. It's a very problem-solving oriented field. To give a simplistic example, I don't have much desire to chase someone's blood pressure over the long term and see them in clinic repeatedly, convince them to take their meds properly, etc., but I have no problem fixing it immediately. I'd choose this field over and over again, given that I'd already chosen a medical career. I'd probably be happy in a surgical field, but anesthesia suits me better, for sure.