question:IMG and residency

[wonderwall]

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Is it true that IMG only match to the worst residency programs(places where no AMG want to go) and that only AMG match to good programs??

 

[mmed]

Is it true that IMG only match to the worst residency programs(places where no AMG want to go) and that only AMG match to good programs??

You can explore the match stats (http://www.nrmp.org//res_match/data_tables.html) to have an idea about each specialty and what is the % of senior AMG vs all others.

Also, go through this thread http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=349805

 

[leorl]

not as simple as that. Some programs will accept IMGs they are impressed with. And although IMGs theoretically should have scores higher than US students, this doesn't happen all the time, yet IMGs still get good offers and even pre-matches. It depends what field you're going into. And also, there would be places that fill with IMGs because of lack of AMG acceptances. There's no concrete answer to this question.

 

[PathOne]

All other things being equal, it's fairly natural that Program Directors would prefer US citizens from US med schools. No visa hassles, and their training is well known. Thus, odds are that two otherwise identical applicants, where one is an IMG, would result in the AMG getting the position. However, if the IMG has superior stats/experiences, then it's perfectly possible that the IMG would get the position. It's very few programs that actually ban non-US medical graduates (neurosurg. at MGH is one of the rare exemptions).

That being said, the US has a long and proud tradition of attracting, training and hiring non-US physicians, and since residency spots are significantly higher than number of US graduates, there's probably more opportunities for IMG's in the US than any other country in the world.

 

[Jackofknives]

All other things being equal, it's fairly natural that Program Directors would prefer US citizens from US med schools. No visa hassles, and their training is well known. Thus, odds are that two otherwise identical applicants, where one is an IMG, would result in the AMG getting the position. However, if the IMG has superior stats/experiences, then it's perfectly possible that the IMG would get the position. It's very few programs that actually ban non-US medical graduates (neurosurg. at MGH is one of the rare exemptions).

That being said, the US has a long and proud tradition of attracting, training and hiring non-US physicians, and since residency spots are significantly higher than number of US graduates, there's probably more opportunities for IMG's in the US than any other country in the world.

It is often a misconception and a mistake to state that Recidency programs have to handle IMG's visa, that is simply not the case and some PDs are not aware of that. ECFMG handles the visa once you get accepted and programs dont have to have anything to do with it.

 

[mmed]

It is often a misconception and a mistake to state that Recidency programs have to handle IMG's visa, that is simply not the case and some PDs are not aware of that. ECFMG handles the visa once you get accepted and programs dont have to have anything to do with it.

This is not completely true. The program through the training Program Liaison serves as the representative of the institute to coordinate with the ECFMG for visa sponsorship and the yearly renewal! The delay to get visa stamp overseas to start is another big concern of programs and this issue raised in the American medical association by programs depending mainly on FMG.
This J visa through the ECFMG is one option for FMG but there are other options like the H visa which is another big headache carried completely by the programs (through the system not important that the PDs do it by themselves).
Another groups will start by working authorization, which should be renewed on yearly basis with the possibility of denial due to removal of the cause of initial issue or due to any reason (denial of green card ….etc)

 

[Vitaliano333]

To answer the original question, and speaking only for IM:

If by "good programs" you mean top, world reknown academic programs, it's close to impossible. The only way you'd even be considered for an interview at these places is if you've done extensive research with well-known authorities in their field. This may entail having to take time for research after med school, and, ideally,you'd want to set it up with someone in the US (although there are some people outside the US with connections). But even with this premise, it would be very difficult. You can, however, match at solid, middle-tier University or affiliated programs. And, if you do well there, the doors of academia (even at top programs) are still opened with regards to fellowship. But the key is research/publications along with doing well/making connections during residency.

 

[leorl]

I wouldn't say that. I know of quite a few IMGs who were able to place in top IM programs without extensive research or outstanding factors. They had decent board scores, excellent LORs, good personalities. Some had a bit of research but not like...career-defining research. It's difficult yes, and hard to say why so and so got this program over someone else, but it's not impossible.

 

[Vitaliano333]

My post wasn't meant to discourage anyone and I apologize if I did. Just the opposite. I was trying to give a realistic view of the challenges of the system. I concede that anything is possible, especially if you come from one of the English speaking countries and can manage to set up electives and do well (although I've met a few AMGs with exactly the characteristics you described who still didn't match at "top" programs). But that is not the case for someone who's fresh off the boat. Then again, why would an Ivy League program take the time to interview anyone with even the slightest possibility of having a language or cultural barrier of sorts, when there are so many outstanding AMGs applying, unless he/she were an outstanding candidate? Also, don't forget that IM training is grueling and PDs want to be certain candidates are up to the task. But once you're in the system, if you prove yourself, you still can do very well.

 

[leorl]

Vitialano brings up an interesting point. I want to clarify that the ones I know of who have done well are AMGs from English-speaking schools, with good letters from electives. A couple foreign graduates of English-speaking schools too, but AMGs more. That's a good delineation to make. I have rotated at top programs though, and have seen FMGs from non-European schools accepted. However, I don't know their stories personally. Non-US/UK/Commonwealth countries may have more trouble getting US experience and US electives because of trouble with the insurance/indemnity requirement that most US hospitals have.

 

[wonderwall]

thanks..It's more or less what I thought..

 

[Vitaliano333]

One more thought for the international aspiring Ivy Leaguers:
It really is not the end of the world to match at lesser known programs. Of course, if one could choose, it's preferable to go to a top academic one. But there are plenty of other programs which do a great job of training very competent clinicians, which is really the most important thing for an IM residency. I personally did my residency at a comunity hospital in Manhattan and I have a great deal of respect for the people who trained me and whom I trained with.