question: rank programs that didn't download Step 2 score?

[icymd]

---

Members do not see this ad.

for anyone, but especially PD's.

if a program didn't even bother to download your step 2 score from ERAS, (took mine in late december so it didn't show up till early february), does that pretty much mean I'm not even on their list. Most of my interviews downloaded the score pretty quickly after it was available, but 2 that I really liked didn't. I know I didn't screw up any interviews and I did fairly well at most places I went. But I can't imagine that a program would rank me without even looking at my step 2 score, even if they're assuming I passed and that's all they care about. Should I even rank these programs? if I do should I rank them as I would have before I knew this, or should they be at the bottom of my list?

 

[WallowaWanderer]

I'm curious what your reason would be for ranking a program lower because of this? If you want to go there, you should rank that place high. Rank programs in the order ypu want to go to them. Anything else is guesswork. Do you want to select your training program based on guesswork?

 

[roja]

Concur. There are a myriad of reasons why they didn't download it.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Based on the content of this post, I think you should take a minute to read about how the match algorithm works before you finalize your match list.

 

[Hercules]

for anyone, but especially PD's.

if a program didn't even bother to download your step 2 score from ERAS, (took mine in late december so it didn't show up till early february), does that pretty much mean I'm not even on their list. Most of my interviews downloaded the score pretty quickly after it was available, but 2 that I really liked didn't. I know I didn't screw up any interviews and I did fairly well at most places I went. But I can't imagine that a program would rank me without even looking at my step 2 score, even if they're assuming I passed and that's all they care about. Should I even rank these programs? if I do should I rank them as I would have before I knew this, or should they be at the bottom of my list?

3 years ago programs ranked me without looking at my Step 2 score (I didn't take it until Feb 28 so it wasn't even available before ROLs were due). It happens. I think you're probably overanalyzing and suffering from matchitis.

 

[icymd]

thanks for the replies, especially cuz they were so quick. I was mainly wondering if the not checking my score meant I hadn't even been ranked by the program. in which case I'd be wasting a spot if I put that program on my own list. it's helpful to know that some programs simply don't bother checking even if they've ranked you.

I did read how match works. the super computer/powers that be/pecking chicken will base matching on my rank list, not the program's. so let me pose a question to see if I really understood and if not I'll go back and read it again.

program A is very competitive: 10 spots open, a bunch of people will rank them number one.

program B is much less competitive: 10 spots open, a few people will rank them number one, a bunch of people will rank them number two or three.

now I like A over B, but really I just wanna match. So if I rank program A number one, i'll have to hope that there aren't ten people out there who ranked them one as well, and who aren't also higher on the program's own list. Considering how popular the program is and how not competitive my application is, this isn't very likely.

If I rank program B number 2, I'm hoping that both the people who ranked it number one and number two aren't above me on the program's own list. If I had ranked program B as my number one, I would only have to worry about the other people who had ranked it number one. This would be probably less than their ten spots, thereby ensuring my placement.

yeah, yeah, i should relax, right? I'm layin on the futon, watchin family guy reruns, so plenty relaxed. i'm just curious to know and have explained (nicely, please) why this reasoning doesn't make sense.

 

[icymd]

thanks for the replies, especially cuz they were so quick. I was mainly wondering if the not checking my score meant I hadn't even been ranked by the program. in which case I'd be wasting a spot if I put that program on my own list. it's helpful to know that some programs simply don't bother checking even if they've ranked you.

I did read how match works. the super computer/powers that be/pecking chicken will base matching on my rank list, not the program's. so let me pose a question to see if I really understood and if not I'll go back and read it again.

program A is very competitive: 10 spots open, a bunch of people will rank them number one.

program B is much less competitive: 10 spots open, a few people will rank them number one, a bunch of people will rank them number two or three.

now I like A over B, but really I just wanna match. So if I rank program A number one, i'll have to hope that there aren't ten people out there who ranked them one as well, and who aren't also higher on the program's own list. Considering how popular the program is and how not competitive my application is, this isn't very likely.

If I rank program B number 2, I'm hoping that both the people who ranked it number one and number two aren't above me on the program's own list. If I had ranked program B as my number one, I would only have to worry about the other people who had ranked it number one. This would be probably less than their ten spots, thereby ensuring my placement.

yeah, yeah, i should relax, right? I'm layin on the futon, watchin family guy reruns, so plenty relaxed. i'm just curious to know and have explained (nicely, please) why this reasoning doesn't make sense.

 

[southerndoc]

Some programs don't care for Step 2 scores. Why? Because not everyone has taken it, and therefore they cannot compare applicants based on it.

 

[deleted109597]

Seriously, you said you read it, but apparently you didn't.
Rank them in the order you want to go to them. If they want you, they will rank you high enough to be in their class. There is no gamesmanship, or at least I used to think there wasn't.
After sitting through the ROL day at my residency, my first thought was to go call/email/drive to every program and tell that that I desperately want to come there, and that I've already bought property/enrolled my kids in the school system/changed my voter registry to that district as proof. For some reason, just going on the interviews isn't enough to convince them that you might actually want to come there. Neither is telling them that during the interview.

FOR THE RECORD, TO ANY PD'S READING THIS. I AM RANKING YOU NUMBER 1. THAT IS ALL.

 

[BADMD]

If I rank program B number 2, I'm hoping that both the people who ranked it number one and number two aren't above me on the program's own list. If I had ranked program B as my number one, I would only have to worry about the other people who had ranked it number one. This would be probably less than their ten spots, thereby ensuring my placement.

I don't believe that is the way it works. If you are above someone else on the program's ranklist and you rank the program #15, and you do not match at any of your #1-14, you will match there, in preference of the person below you, even if they rank it #1.

Thus, you aren't changing your chances of matching at program B by ranking it #2 instead of #1 if program A doesn't have you ranked in a position to match.

 

[WallowaWanderer]

in which case I'd be wasting a spot if I put that program on my own list.

If I rank program B number 2, I'm hoping that both the people who ranked it number one and number two aren't above me on the program's own list. If I had ranked program B as my number one, I would only have to worry about the other people who had ranked it number one.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the Match process.

Lets say you really want to go to the In n' Out residency, and you rank them number one. Your friend ranks In n' Out Residency #100 because he thinks it sucks. But your friend matches at In n' Out because programs 1-99 did not rank him high enough to match at their program. Now In n Out decided to rank you next (after your friend) on their rank list. But, your friend got spot number 12 out of the 12 spots In and Out had available that year. So, you don't match at In n' Out and the system then looks at your number 2 choice.

Your choice #2 is the Alligator Farm residency. They ranked 1000 students, and you were number 1000. Now the Alligator Farm residency had a tough year and nobody really wanted to go there. Even though they ranked you last, you ended up matching there because they hadn't filled before the system came to you.

I hope that helps things make sense. You really need to go back to the webpage and read it a few more times. You should also call your advisor and schedule a meeting or talk on the phone ASAP as it's very important to understand this before you rank programs.

You cannot "waste a spot" on your rank list. Rank programs in the order you want to go to them!!!

 

[Hard24Get]

OP, what do these people know? Don't rank those programs that seem like they're "just not that into you". Matching is like dating, you don't wanna ask someone out that isn't sending the right signals, because they may not like you that way. Personally, I'm only ranking programs that sent me Valentine's Day cards and bother to call on my birthday.

Honestly, if a program didn't bother to even LOOK at your step 2 score, you need to get Dr. Phil involved in that relationship - STAT!

 

[jazz]

it kind of amazes me that there is a question as to how the match works....

what wallowawanderer says is right.

rank programs in the order you want to match in.
you cannot waste a spot on your list.

the match algorithm is designed to favor the applicant, not the program.


here's another example:

as long as a program ranks you higher than say medical student X, then regardless of whether you rank the program #12 on your list and medical student X ranks that same program #1, if you haven't matched at your top 11, then you will get the spot over medical student X.....

 

[EdEmEr]

Dear PD's

Please resist the temptation to download my step 2. It will only lead to your disappointment and neither of us want that.

E-👍

 

[deleted77919]

Before the introduction of the current match algorithm the NRMP took data from prior matches to see how things turned out. It is possible to game a list if you know everyone else's rank list nationally and how the programs ranked everyone (clearly no one has access to this information). Then by truncating your list to one above your original match it might be possible to end up with a better match. If everyone had this data, and used this strategy, it appears that operhaps two students each year (give or take) could benefit from this behavior. Here's the article if you're interested. http://www.pitt.edu/~daz1/1jama.html

MORAL OF THE STORY: It isn't possible to game the match, rank where you want to go in your order of preference. As far as how many programs to include on the list, if you'd rather go somewhere than scramble, rank them all. You went to the trouble of getting into medical school and at least passing all of your courses, going on interviews, etc. Now is not the time to try to save a few dollars.

 

[lord_jeebus]

For the sake of people who skim this thread and only read big text

Rank programs in your order of preference.

There is no strategic advantage to any other order, under any circumstances.

 

[icymd]

all right, thanx for explaining. that kinda sucks though that someone who ranked my number one as their number 12 can get it. oh well. maybe i'll rank em based on how much alcohol they paid for at dinner. 😀 good luck on match everyone.

 

[keeping-it-real]

it kind of amazes me that there is a question as to how the match works....

what wallowawanderer says is right.

rank programs in the order you want to match in.
you cannot waste a spot on your list.

the match algorithm is designed to favor the applicant, not the program.


here's another example:

as long as a program ranks you higher than say medical student X, then regardless of whether you rank the program #12 on your list and medical student X ranks that same program #1, if you haven't matched at your top 11, then you will get the spot over medical student X.....

if it favors the applicant, then the applicant's rank list should dictate the match. everything in this thread, though, has indiciated otherwise.

and in the scenario that you've given, you're saying that regardless of where you rank a program, the slots fill depending on their list. that by definition means it does not favor the applicant.

 

[deleted109597]

It is applicants choice. As long as the place they want to go ranks them. IE, if your number 2 ranks you number 1, but your number 1 ranks you 700th and goes all the way down to that, you end up at number 1.
It is all about two groups wanting to be together. Obviously if one doesn't rank the other, it doesn't matter.

 

[WallowaWanderer]

if it favors the applicant, then the applicant's rank list should dictate the match. everything in this thread, though, has indiciated otherwise.

The applicants rank list does dictate the match. The system looks at your top choice, then looks to see where that program ranked you. It does not start with the the program's rank list and then look to see where you ranked the program. That is what people mean when they say that the rank process favors the applicant. The result is essentially the same - when they switched from a program choosing system to an applicant choosing system it only affecting something like 1/1000 people.

and in the scenario that you've given, you're saying that regardless of where you rank a program, the slots fill depending on their list. that by definition means it does not favor the applicant.

Nope, if a program has you number 1 but you ranked them number 1001, you will not match there unless programs number 1-1000 did not rank you high enough to match at their programs.

Yes, the way the program ranks you makes a difference. In reality the system benefits both the applicants and the programs - finding the highest possible match for the applicant and the program. That's why it's called "the match."

 

[jazz]

it favors the applicant b/c

if i'm program director at "Subideal residency" and I make a rank list with 100 medical students..... and i rank you, the applicant, #1 because i think you are a superstar... you, the applicant however rank "subideal residency" 12th on your list (b/c it's less than ideal)... unless you don't get a spot at the 11 places above the 12th spot, i, the program director, will not get you as a resident...
thus, the rank list favors the applicants choices vs. the programs...

and in the scenario that you've given, you're saying that regardless of where you rank a program, the slots fill depending on their list. that by definition means it does not favor the applicant.

unfortunately if a program does not rank you highly and they fill all there available spots prior to reaching you, even if you rank them #1, you will not get to go there... that's why people don't always match at there top 3....

however, you do not have to worry in that if you get your say 6th choice, it means that the top 5 choices filled their programs before they reached you as a candidate....but you cannot waste a spot on your match list...

not sure if it makes sense ... but it really does...
even if you don't get it..

JUST RANK IN ORDER OF YOUR TRUE PREFERENCE -- you cannot go wrong...
btw are the lists due yet already? if so, sorry but maybe some MSIII will learn something