question

[guest]

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I'm a 30 y/o dentist. Been practicing 4 years.
Wife's a third year anesthesia resident with 1 to go.
She'd like to pursue a fellowship in peds anesthesia.
She says the job market is tight and feels the fellowship will allow her to work in a larger city.

Ultimate goal is for us to move back home (NC) be close to family, for me to set up practice and for her to work.

Is this reasonable?
How are job opportunities in the NC / Charlotte area?
Will a fellowship in Peds help in this situation?
Will that leave her limited to only being able to work in jobs that see a lot of kids?

I've been having the entrepreneur itch of setting up a dental practice. And another year for fellowship, although it's only a year, it's 1 year longer I have to stay in the corporate dental world.

Thanks.

 

[karizma098]

I'm only a MS-4, but yes, it's pretty common knowledge that a fellowship makes you more marketable - not necessarily always more $$, but always more marketable in big cities. it's a crappy time for anesthesia jobs right now. Peds and cards are popular and sought after fellowships.

I'm a 30 y/o dentist. Been practicing 4 years.
Wife's a third year anesthesia resident with 1 to go.
She'd like to pursue a fellowship in peds anesthesia.
She says the job market is tight and feels the fellowship will allow her to work in a larger city.

Ultimate goal is for us to move back home (NC) be close to family, for me to set up practice and for her to work.

Is this reasonable?
How are job opportunities in the NC / Charlotte area?
Will a fellowship in Peds help in this situation?
Will that leave her limited to only being able to work in jobs that see a lot of kids?

I've been having the entrepreneur itch of setting up a dental practice. And another year for fellowship, although it's only a year, it's 1 year longer I have to stay in the corporate dental world.

Thanks.

 

[countingdays]

I'm a 30 y/o dentist. Been practicing 4 years.
Wife's a third year anesthesia resident with 1 to go.
She'd like to pursue a fellowship in peds anesthesia.
She says the job market is tight and feels the fellowship will allow her to work in a larger city.

Ultimate goal is for us to move back home (NC) be close to family, for me to set up practice and for her to work.

Is this reasonable?
How are job opportunities in the NC / Charlotte area?
Will a fellowship in Peds help in this situation?
Will that leave her limited to only being able to work in jobs that see a lot of kids?

I've been having the entrepreneur itch of setting up a dental practice. And another year for fellowship, although it's only a year, it's 1 year longer I have to stay in the corporate dental world.

Thanks.

She can always apply for jobs and fellowship or do fellowship in NC.

People repeat that fellowship helps. Maybe true maybe not. Depends on the job.

 

[periopdoc]

Unequivocally she should do the fellowship. It is IMHO the third best fellowship to do and one that will make her highly prized and valuable to any future employer. She will not be limited to a peds only practice. Just about any practice would be happy to have pediatric expertise to call on for tough cases.

Job market is super tight right now for non-fellowship trained docs, but those of us with top fellowships still have our pick of jobs. The fellowship will help secure a job in almost every setting (rural to urban).

You will be investing one year's salary (calculated as one of her top earning years) into a big increase in long-term job security. If the market remains as it is right now, you will never recoup the investment. However, if the dire predictions regarding anesthesiologist's future come true, the fellowship could mean the difference in having a job or not.

I still list ICU and Pain as the top tier fellowships for job security long-term.

For those who can't stand the thought of ICU or Pain, the best fellowship is Peds followed at some distance by Cardiac.

There are some who equate Peds and Cardiac, but I believe Peds offers a better long-term prognosis.

-pod (cardiac fellowship trained)

 

[michigangirl]

I feel strongly that a peds fellowship is a good investment-- BUT the caveat is that there is going to be an ABA peds fellowship certification exam, which anyone who wants to be certified in peds anesthesia has to take from here on out (even the old fogies have to take it if they care about being board certified-- most of them do not since they have years and years of experience under their belts and don't need to be certified to be "marketable"). But if an exam doesn't bother her, it's a great track-- nothing's assured in terms of job security, but it definitely gives an anesthesiologist in this challenging time more job options. If she's peds fellowship trained this by no means says that she can't do adult anesthesia, or be in a practice that does both. Most peds anesthesiologists tend toward academic centers because that is where the most challenging peds patients tend to be, and most tend to focus on peds, but there are at least five or six at my institution that would miss adults too much so they do OB/adult/regional as well.

In a nutshell, I think it's a great plan.

 

[sevoflurane]

I agree with the sentiments above....

I also agree with GypsySongman when he said:

Depends on the job.

IMO, bread and butter peds (ENT, Ortho, Spine, MRI, General peds surgery ie. hernias, circs, pyloromyotomies, etc..) don't need a pedi tranied anesthesiologist.... but I guess it depends on your training.

Most of the pedi trained colleagues I've worked with have ended up in academic centers, children's hospitals or in big groups that have more than bread and butter pedi cases.

Smaller groups of 8-15 MDs that do B&B peds may not have a need for a peds trained guy/gal. Honestly, I don't know if a peds trained individual would want to focus on B&B peds anyways. It would appear to me that if you ended up in a group like this, it would be a waste of good training, time and money. If I did a peds fellowship, which i've often thought about, I would want to do the fun cases... Neuro, plastics, cardiac, etc.... = Children's hospital/academics or big group with diverse pedi cases.

Your wife needs to ask herself what she wants. If she really wants peds, then that's the answer. 👍

If she wants peds just to get into an area or group... I'm not sure if that is the right decision.

Just a thought and good luck 🙂

 

[guest]

She can always apply for jobs and fellowship or do fellowship in NC.

People repeat that fellowship helps. Maybe true maybe not. Depends on the job.

She does not like the peds programs in NC, well at least the faculty in our program here doesn't like them.

Looks like we'll be here for another year.
Reading a bunch of threads on the demise of anesthesia on this forum. Didn't realize it was that bad. But there a lot of posts saying anesthesia could get down in to the 200K for salaries, which I IMO is still very awesome. I guess it's the way you look at it.

 

[michigangirl]

I agree with the sentiments above....

I also agree with GypsySongman when he said:



IMO, bread and butter peds (ENT, Ortho, Spine, MRI, General peds surgery ie. hernias, circs, pyloromyotomies, etc..) don't need a pedi tranied anesthesiologist.... but I guess it depends on your training.

Most of the pedi trained colleagues I've worked with have ended up in academic centers, children's hospitals or in big groups that have more than bread and butter pedi cases.

Smaller groups of 8-15 MDs that do B&B peds may not have a need for a peds trained guy/gal. Honestly, I don't know if a peds trained individual would want to focus on B&B peds anyways. It would appear to me that if you ended up in a group like this, it would be a waste of good training, time and money. If I did a peds fellowship, which i've often thought about, I would want to do the fun cases... Neuro, plastics, cardiac, etc.... = Children's hospital/academics or big group with diverse pedi cases.

Your wife needs to ask herself what she wants. If she really wants peds, then that's the answer. 👍

If she wants peds just to get into an area or group... I'm not sure if that is the right decision.

Just a thought and good luck 🙂

You're absolutely correct. Most peds trained folks (including myself) do not want to do mainly B&B peds. We don't mind some bread and butter here and there, but it's the challenging peds cases that keeps us going.

 

[2win]

Unequivocally she should do the fellowship. It is IMHO the third best fellowship to do and one that will make her highly prized and valuable to any future employer. She will not be limited to a peds only practice. Just about any practice would be happy to have pediatric expertise to call on for tough cases.

Job market is super tight right now for non-fellowship trained docs, but those of us with top fellowships still have our pick of jobs. The fellowship will help secure a job in almost every setting (rural to urban).

You will be investing one year's salary (calculated as one of her top earning years) into a big increase in long-term job security. If the market remains as it is right now, you will never recoup the investment. However, if the dire predictions regarding anesthesiologist's future come true, the fellowship could mean the difference in having a job or not.

I still list ICU and Pain as the top tier fellowships for job security long-term.

For those who can't stand the thought of ICU or Pain, the best fellowship is Peds followed at some distance by Cardiac.

There are some who equate Peds and Cardiac, but I believe Peds offers a better long-term prognosis.

-pod (cardiac fellowship trained)

👍👍👍👍👍
2win

 

[Surfer]

fellowships are a waste of a year in time and money, UNLESS, and only unless, you actually really want that training and experience. Don't do it for "marketability." Honestly the job market is fine, everybody i know who has recently looked has found great jobs. I have great jobs calling me every month to see if I'm "still happy where i'm at." Fellowships are not for the job, they're for the fellow. Only do it if that's what you REALLY want to do... Otherwise they are damn expensive exercises.

 

[periopdoc]

Like I said. In todays job market, you will never recoup the investment. If the dire predictions are true, you will more than recoup it.

Extremely few groups actually need a cardiac or pediatric trained partner, but it is nice to have one around when questions arise about a new/ different technique or a challenging case.

I know that my cardiac surgeon likes having me around for unusual or challenging cases. I know that my partners could do them as well or better than me, but having me in the group helps keep the surgeon happy. Happy surgeon equals happy admin. Happy admin means my group is more likely to keep the contract. Just my mere presence as a partner gives our group additional security and that feels good.

Or maybe I just wasted several hundred thousand dollars. It was a fun year though.

- pod

 

[PMPMD]

Like I said. In todays job market, you will never recoup the investment. If the dire predictions are true, you will more than recoup it.

Extremely few groups actually need a cardiac or pediatric trained partner, but it is nice to have one around when questions arise about a new/ different technique or a challenging case.

I know that my cardiac surgeon likes having me around for unusual or challenging cases. I know that my partners could do them as well or better than me, but having me in the group helps keep the surgeon happy. Happy surgeon equals happy admin. Happy admin means my group is more likely to keep the contract. Just my mere presence as a partner gives our group additional security and that feels good.

Or maybe I just wasted several hundred thousand dollars. It was a fun year though.

- pod

Do you think a CCM fellowship helps marketability with OR-only PP groups? I'm doing one b/c I actually want to work in a unit, and I want to stay in academics. Or were you saying it helps with iob security because if anesthesia jobs get tight, you can go work in a unit?

 

[Surfer]

Like I said. In todays job market, you will never recoup the investment. If the dire predictions are true, you will more than recoup it.

Extremely few groups actually need a cardiac or pediatric trained partner, but it is nice to have one around when questions arise about a new/ different technique or a challenging case.

I know that my cardiac surgeon likes having me around for unusual or challenging cases. I know that my partners could do them as well or better than me, but having me in the group helps keep the surgeon happy. Happy surgeon equals happy admin. Happy admin means my group is more likely to keep the contract. Just my mere presence as a partner gives our group additional security and that feels good.

Or maybe I just wasted several hundred thousand dollars. It was a fun year though.

- pod

well said 👍

 

[periopdoc]

Do you think a CCM fellowship helps marketability with OR-only PP groups? I'm doing one b/c I actually want to work in a unit, and I want to stay in academics. Or were you saying it helps with iob security because if anesthesia jobs get tight, you can go work in a unit?

Potentially could help marketability. I have seen a few groups who want to have a part time OR/ part time ICU guy. I think it would be nice to manage my post-op hearts myself.

However, when I say job security in relation to Pain and ICU, I mean these are skills that can be applied in a non-OR environment in the event that OR based jobs become scarce or untenable. It gives you a completely different area of medicine to practice in. Also, I can imagine situations where you become physically unable to perform operative anesthesiology, but you could still manage patients in the ICU.

- pod

 

[PMPMD]

Potentially could help marketability. I have seen a few groups who want to have a part time OR/ part time ICU guy. I think it would be nice to manage my post-op hearts myself.

However, when I say job security in relation to Pain and ICU, I mean these are skills that can be applied in a non-OR environment in the event that OR based jobs become scarce or untenable. It gives you a completely different area of medicine to practice in. Also, I can imagine situations where you become physically unable to perform operative anesthesiology, but you could still manage patients in the ICU.

- pod

Thanks

 

[imfrankie]

Potentially could help marketability. I have seen a few groups who want to have a part time OR/ part time ICU guy. I think it would be nice to manage my post-op hearts myself.

However, when I say job security in relation to Pain and ICU, I mean these are skills that can be applied in a non-OR environment in the event that OR based jobs become scarce or untenable. It gives you a completely different area of medicine to practice in. Also, I can imagine situations where you become physically unable to perform operative anesthesiology, but you could still manage patients in the ICU.

- pod

I heard some wild stuff about telemedicine ICU work too. Wow.