Questions about specializing

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Rachel Patrick

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Hey everyone! I start vet school in a week and had a few questions about specializing post vet school.

1. Are there branches of vet med where you get to see the “cooler”/more interesting cases without specializing? I enjoyed working as a vet assistant at a GP, but could see how seeing the same handful of issues every week could become “boring”.
2. How does one specialize? What do I need to be mindful of in vet school (grades? Building relationships with faculty for LORs?)?

I have no issue working with people or dealing with people, and I honestly really enjoy educating pet owners. I am just wondering if there is a way to see the “cool stuff” outside of GP without having to specialize. Thanks!

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1. Are there branches of vet med where you get to see the “cooler”/more interesting cases without specializing? I enjoyed working as a vet assistant at a GP, but could see how seeing the same handful of issues every week could become “boring”.
Depends on what you consider cool. I'm not a specialist, but started in GP and moved to ER. Even in GP, I saw things I thought were cool because of how my GP hospital functioned (and to a certain extent, how dysfunctional it was). @SportPonies seems to see and manage pretty cool cases as a GP. I think I see some cool stuff outside the vomiting/diarrhea cases.

If you think about it, specialists also have their bread and butter cases where they seem the same thing over and over because those are the cases GPs or ERs send. Likewise, a lot of clients will *never* see a specialist, so it falls on the GP if the GP is willing to keep the case long term. And then for a ton of specialists, the goal is for the GP to manage long term as well, depending on the case.
2. How does one specialize? What do I need to be mindful of in vet school (grades? Building relationships with faculty for LORs?)?
Again, depends on the specialty. But most require the following route:
- Vet school: decent to good grades, good relationships for letters of rec, experiencing different services to see what you like, building your own list of priorities (i.e. I didn't specialize cause I wanted to have a baby and make real money right after graduation)
- Internships: rotating internships and then sometimes specialty internships. I know someone who did 4 internships before getting her residency (surgery) so what may be required of *you* varies
- Residency at a specialty center or vet school

Some specialties don't require internships. Some don't require their residency be through an actual program (animal welfare and animal behavior specifically).
I am just wondering if there is a way to see the “cool stuff” outside of GP without having to specialize.
You can see cool things as a GP if you tailor yourself that way. Like I said, not every client can or will see a specialist. So if you put in the time/effort/money to improve your knowledge base, you can manage more complicated cases. You just need to know your boundaries and capabilities.
 
@SkiOtter may know who is a specialist on here better than me. But we do have a few specialists lurking here.
 
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I think you will find that every specialist thinks they seen cool cases because usually we are specializing in something we are particularly interested in haha.

I am biased, but I think ECC gives you a huge variety. Yes ~50% of ER is acute vomiting/diarrhea or emergency GP things, but you see all the crazy fun things from all the other specialty categories as well. Now you don't need to be an ECC specialist to work ER, so this may be an option if you want variety but don't want to specialize. Most of our staff doctors at my shop are in ER because they like the variability and variety.

Example: this weekend I was on outpatient ER and I saw a bunch of acute GI, some derm (I actually did skin biopsies on ER...), a bit more derm (to my chagrin), some ophtho, some neuro neck pain, some orthopedic/trauma, horrible cluster seizures/probs liver shunt, some vestibular neuro, ran like 5 codes, and then had a bad snakebite case that turned into an upper airway obstruction and needed emergent airway management/tracheostomy.

Grades matter for specializing. You don't need to be the top of your class, but your options will be a lot more limited if you have low grades. Some residency institutions are incredibly selective. I'm in private practice which historically cares less about grades but my place still has a pretty strict GPA cutoff for residency applicants because they want to make sure people coming in are going to be able to succeed in studying/writing for board exams. It is also very important to build relationships with specialists in your field of interest for letters of rec/networking for oppertunities.

"Traditional" path to specializing: Vet school -> rotating internship (1 year) -> +/- specialty internship (or mulitiple) (1 year each) -> residency (3-4 years) -> specialty board exams -> specialist. Depending on the specialty there are differences in if/number of speciality internships required, if you need a rotating, and residency length. You can also consider going back to specialize after being in practice, though some specialties are less friendly to this than others.
 
Specialists definitely have their bread and butter cases they do day in and day out, too. Surgeons do tons of TPLOs. Oncologists treat lots of lymphoma. Pathologists see tons of mast cell tumors and lipomas. Neurologists see tons of IVDD. Internists are going to manage a lot of chronic conditions. What I tell people about my own job as a pathologist is that easy pays the same as hard, we just want enough hard to keep things interesting. But the same happens in GP…wellness is going to be your every day but there will hopefully be enough of the “cool” cases to keep you happy. All those “cool” cases usually start at their GP before getting referred. The other posts have touched on a lot of the other points to consider.

Edit to clarify, I do realize that harder cases with more workup will likely generate more revenue and thus more production, but the flip side is those take more time. So when I say “easy pays the same as hard” I do mean it literally in my job as a pathologist where I’m essentially paid per case, but even though it may not literally apply for those in clinical practice, my point is that this is a job we’re doing to get paid, and you’re gonna get paid whether things are routine or bonkers. And routine gets us home on time more often than when things are bonkers.
 
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+1 for ER being a good way to see cool cases. You are the first person seeing all of the cases that often move on to a specialist. Every ER functions a little differently, but at the one I worked at (ER + specialty), the only thing I wasn't 'allowed' to do was surgery as we had on-call surgeons. Specialists deserve a ton of credit for the knowledge and skill they have (and the time it takes to get it), but ER docs are woefully underrated, underpaid, and underappreciated. ER vets often do the work of a board-certified criticalist without the credentials (and increased pay). You are stabilizing DKAs, admitting parvo puppies, tapping chests and abdomens, stabilizing fractures, managing heart failures, keeping back/neck dogs out of searing pain until the neurologist gets them into the OR, managing the criticalist's post-op septic abdomen overnight, etc. I could go on. Probably 90% of the cases that specialists saw at my hospital went through the ER first, and we had to make sure everything was set up and performed correctly so the specialist could take over the next day. It was never boring (grueling and exhausting? yes) and you touch on almost every single specialty every day. You have to have a breadth of knowledge of all specialties to do the job well, and often need to know each specialist you work with extremely well so you know how to set up their transfers.

An ER-only practice is even more challenging - you either do all of the above without a specialist there to take over at some point, or you refer.

You don't need to specialize/do a residency for ER work. I'd recommend at least a rotating internship before jumping into ER, but that's just one person's opinion.

You can also do some specialty-level work without going through residencies/sitting for boards. There are a few internists, radiologists and surgeons I've come across that have their practice limited to that specialty, but either did not do a residency, or never ended up boarded for whatever reason (or still are trying to qualify for/pass boards, I suppose). Some get their experience through CE and/or internship training. You could debate about whether or not you should call yourself a 'specialist' (as in an internist, surgeon, radiologist, etc.) in this case, but nevertheless, some people definitely do this. When my vet school had no radiologist on staff (3 years of my education...), they hired on a vet who just was 'good at' ultrasounds. She never did a residency, but all she did was ultrasounds, even before being hired by the school. I don't remember if she referred to herself as a radiologist or not. The vet who did a TPLO on my childhood dog a few years ago? Not a boarded surgeon and did not do a residency, but owns an entire practice that is limited to surgery and definitely referred to himself as a surgeon. Semantics, but some people get very worked up about the use of a title and feel it has to be earned a certain way.

Zoo is another 'specialty' field that does not require a residency - I did a specialty internship, but will not be doing a residency. You do not need to do a residency to qualify for the board exam, either, which makes this field unique (although there are some people that absolutely want to change this...). I will say that zoo med is essentially GP/ER but with species that make your job really hard, and sometimes really scary (I was nearly killed last weekend....this field is nuts :laugh:). With that said, I don't refer to myself as a specialist in zoo med, or a specialist at all. (similar to above...can you call yourself a specialist if you haven't passed a board exam? a discussion that is not entirely relevant to this thread). The ACZM (zoo specialty board) has actually trademarked the phrase 'Board certified specialist in zoological medicine.' Not sure if other specialties have gone that far.

Anyway, TLDR: there are options to do 'cool' stuff with and without going through a traditional route to specialize (rotating internship -> specialty internship, sometimes multiple -> residency -> specialty board exam). In general, there is a big push for specializing and I noticed that right off the bat in my first year of school.
 
tapping chests and abdomens
My absolutely favorite procedure 😍
An ER-only practice is even more challenging - you either do all of the above without a specialist there to take over at some point, or you refer.
This is the type of practice I'm in and it's something important to keep in mind with ER. There are definitely moments where we wish we weren't managing certain cases and could send to a specialist, but clients won't do it.
I'd recommend at least a rotating internship before jumping into ER, but that's just one person's opinion.
Not having done an internship, I think it depends on the mentorship. My hospital group does a pretty good job while also paying our 2-4 new mentees every year and appropriate salary. Likewise, there are definitely practices in the area who don't do right by their new ER grads in any way.

But I guess this can be true of internships as well.
can you call yourself a specialist if you haven't passed a board exam?
If you're brought up to the board, I think this loses you your license.
 
The AVMA definition in their model practice act is someone who has been awarded and maintains certification from an AVMA-recognized specialty organization. It’s probably up to the state’s individual practice acts to define and enforce the term but in general, using that term when you’re not boarded is frowned upon and would likely be grounds for board action for misrepresentation if you’re reported. Luckily my boards results came out a week before I started my job, so I didn’t have to worry about phrasing. What I’ve usually seen is that people say “practice limited to internal medicine” or whatever specialty area. For the ACVIM specialties, I believe their research has to be published before they officially get their diplomate status, so it’s not uncommon for people who have finished their residency to use this phrasing in situations like when waiting to hear whether they passed the board exam or if they did pass the exam but they’re waiting on their papers to get published. Similarly, the surgeon than did my dog’s adrenalectomy signed stuff/advertised “residency trained in surgery” because she hadn’t yet sat for her board exam since theirs isn't until like February and she’d finished residency in July. Then she called herself a diplomate/specialist more formally after passing boards. A non-residency trained person who just self-taught or did surgical CE might be able to claim “practice limited to surgery” but that’s probably about it legally.
 
If you're brought up to the board, I think this loses you your license.
Does your practice act actually say this? I have no idea what mine says. I'm always surprised at what certain states might give a slap on the wrist for vs. more serious punishment. I've known of a few really bad things a couple of vets have done over the years (that I thought would lead to licenses being suspended/revoked) and they just get a fine with CE at most, or lose their DEA. Not that I think intentionally misleading others by calling yourself a 'specialist' is ethical, but I'm just surprised that one might immediately lose their license over it compared to some other things that are allowed to slide. :shrug:

And then there's the UK, where all vets are 'vet surgeons' and 'vet nurses' :laugh:
 
Does your practice act actually say this? I have no idea what mine says. I'm always surprised at what certain states might give a slap on the wrist for vs. more serious punishment. I've known of a few really bad things a couple of vets have done over the years (that I thought would lead to licenses being suspended/revoked) and they just get a fine with CE at most, or lose their DEA. Not that I think intentionally misleading others by calling yourself a 'specialist' is ethical, but I'm just surprised that one might immediately lose their license over it compared to some other things that are allowed to slide. :shrug:

And then there's the UK, where all vets are 'vet surgeons' and 'vet nurses' :laugh:
I honestly don't know, it was an assumption on my part. But good point; judging from things I've seen on VIN, I shouldnt really assume that.

It might be a thing of misleading the wrong client with a case that goes sideways.
 
I don’t live in the same state at Bats, but my state’s act has “claiming certification or recognition as a specialist which is untrue” as one of the many specific examples of unprofessional conduct listed under the Rules of Professional Conduct. In another section it also has like, misrepresentation or dishonest behavior regarding one’s skills and qualifications or in the practice of vet medicine, which is also vague enough to apply if a board wanted it to. I feel like I’ve seen mention of actual sanctions related to this in our newsletter too. But I do agree that enforcement definitely seems to vary based upon locality. Things seemed much more strict/more findings of fault in my residency state than in my home state.
 
I don’t live in the same state at Bats, but my state’s act has “claiming certification or recognition as a specialist which is untrue” as one of the many specific examples of unprofessional conduct listed under the Rules of Professional Conduct. In another section it also has like, misrepresentation or dishonest behavior regarding one’s skills and qualifications or in the practice of vet medicine, which is also vague enough to apply if a board wanted it to. I feel like I’ve seen mention of actual sanctions related to this in our newsletter too. But I do agree that enforcement definitely seems to vary based upon locality. Things seemed much more strict/more findings of fault in my residency state than in my home state.
Do you think this would go as far as calling oneself a 'surgeon' being considered dishonest? Or is it boxed in to using the term 'specialist?' It's less sketch than referring to yourself as a specialist...by definition, if you are performing a surgery, you're a surgeon. I can't say I really see this happening around my area for other specialties though, ie ophtho, onco, derm, etc. I've seen some other vets get pretty worked up about this. 'You're not a real surgeon if you didn't do a residency/aren't boarded!'

To me, it's along the lines of some human nurses having a coronary when vet techs wanted to switch up the terminology to 'vet nurse' a few years back. By the actual definition of the term, techs are nurses...but people want to gatekeep the term because it 'means' something to them. I see both sides of the argument to some extent.

You say things like this and then act surprised that I don't have any interest in doing zoo med? smh smh
:laugh: To be fair, most zoo keepers/vets go their entire career without a legit near death experience
 
I had a client text my clinic to ask if I was a reptile specialist. They found the ARAV website and saw another doctor of ours listed but not me, and I was treating their bearded dragon at the time
It was fun to politely explain that association membership was not the same as specialization, and that not all of our doctors belonged to every association but we all worked with the same species
This also led me to realize that we didn't have a doctor with AEMV membership, which I was happy to remedy
 
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