questions from a semi-newbie

[Spin]

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Hi, I've been reading old threads and stuff for a while but there are still some things I'm unclear on. This is a long post, but I'd really appreciate it if you guys have answers. Thanks 🙂

1) I've seen people mention that there are specializations on psychology, like neuropsychology. Where can I find out about the various specializations and how much longer they take, what they entail, etc? I'm most interested in biology/chemistry-based psychological research, so these might be close to what I'm looking for.

2) Is it generally best to major in psychology? My school has a flexible but rigorous interdisciplinary major in neurobiology that would allow me to take a lot of psychology classes without majoring in psych.

3) From what I've read, it seems like most PhD programs basically include research, classes, some clinical training, and something like TA-ing if you want a stipend. How much variation is there in the clinical training and what this clinical training (and the classes) prepare you for? I don't plan on having a purely academic career, but I don't know how to find out what else a PhD program will prepare its students for. Will it prepare them to diagnose people with schizophrenia? Will it prepare them to give IQ tests? Will it prepare them to give marriage counseling? Are all PhDs given a generic clinical training, or are there specializations?

4) About what percentage of people who apply to get into psych PhD programs get in each year?

5) When should I ask people to write LORs? Is August too late? Is April too early? Also, do they have to be from anyone specific, or can they be from any research mentor /professor /work supervisor that knows me well?

6) Are there schools that have rolling acceptance? (For med school it's best to be done applying by the end of July, a little more than a year before you plan to start school.)

7) This is the big one: I'm planning on getting into psychology research as soon as I can, but I was recently awarded a research scholarship to continue my biochemical research on a certain receptor in the brain. I'm basically committed to this research for the summer and fall of my junior year, and I could get published as a result. Unfortunately, this means that I won't really be able to start psychology research until the spring of my junior year. It doesn't give me very much time to get experience and to get to know my mentor before applying to grad school. Will the fact that I'm familiar with non-psychological hard-science research make up for my lack of psychological research at all? I'd really like to go straight from undergrad to grad school, partially because I can keep my (excellent) health insurance until I'm 25 as long as I remain a full-time student.

 

[blindchaos]

2) Is it generally best to major in psychology? My school has a flexible but rigorous interdisciplinary major in neurobiology that would allow me to take a lot of psychology classes without majoring in psych.

4) About what percentage of people who apply to get into psych PhD programs get in each year?

5) When should I ask people to write LORs? Is August too late? Is April too early? Also, do they have to be from anyone specific, or can they be from any research mentor /professor /work supervisor that knows me well?

6) Are there schools that have rolling acceptance? (For med school it's best to be done applying by the end of July, a little more than a year before you plan to start school.)

2 - this can depend on what schools you apply to. Some schools have prereqs that you have to take before going there though it sounds like this interdisciplinary major should covers most of the bases

4 - I don't know the stats for overall acceptance rates but individually, it varies greatly by school. Some accept less than 5% of applicants, some accept 20+%. Overall, it's a highly competitive field, especially if you're going the neuro route (so I hear anyway, could be wrong)

5 - I think April is way too early and August is not too late. I think I asked all of mine in mid-late September which some might consider as late but it worked out well for me and had no problems getting everything on time if not early. One writer wanted all the info and materials no later than two months before they were due, another wanted everything no later than two weeks before they were due (oddly enough, the one that wanted them no later than 2 weeks ahead of time finished ALL of hers up before the one that had two months Still got everything on time though). I would *highly* recommend setting your own deadlines for your writers so just in case they are late or forgetful, you still have a little wiggle room to get everything in on time (I set my deadline two weeks before the real school-issued deadline)

6 - I don't know of any true rolling admissions APA schools because they all have the April 1 deadline of notifying applicants. There are some like Widener (PsyD) who have spread out interview dates and will offer admission to some even before the last group comes in for interviews. I applied to 14 programs and all had deadlines between Nov. 15 and Jan. 20 though I'm sure there are a few schools with deadlines outside that time frame (note - the Nov. 15 deadline was an "early application" deadline for one school that also offered a regular deadline in December. Applying by Nov. 15 just gets your app looked at more quickly and interviews for that bunch are scheduled earlier than the standard deadline applicants).

Hope that helps!

 

[erg923]

Hi, I've been reading old threads and stuff for a while but there are still some things I'm unclear on. This is a long post, but I'd really appreciate it if you guys have answers. Thanks 🙂

1) I've seen people mention that there are specializations on psychology, like neuropsychology. Where can I find out about the various specializations and how much longer they take, what they entail, etc? I'm most interested in biology/chemistry-based psychological research, so these might be close to what I'm looking for.

2) Is it generally best to major in psychology? My school has a flexible but rigorous interdisciplinary major in neurobiology that would allow me to take a lot of psychology classes without majoring in psych.

3) From what I've read, it seems like most PhD programs basically include research, classes, some clinical training, and something like TA-ing if you want a stipend. How much variation is there in the clinical training and what this clinical training (and the classes) prepare you for? I don't plan on having a purely academic career, but I don't know how to find out what else a PhD program will prepare its students for. Will it prepare them to diagnose people with schizophrenia? Will it prepare them to give IQ tests? Will it prepare them to give marriage counseling? Are all PhDs given a generic clinical training, or are there specializations?

4) About what percentage of people who apply to get into psych PhD programs get in each year?

5) When should I ask people to write LORs? Is August too late? Is April too early? Also, do they have to be from anyone specific, or can they be from any research mentor /professor /work supervisor that knows me well?

6) Are there schools that have rolling acceptance? (For med school it's best to be done applying by the end of July, a little more than a year before you plan to start school.)

7) This is the big one: I'm planning on getting into psychology research as soon as I can, but I was recently awarded a research scholarship to continue my biochemical research on a certain receptor in the brain. I'm basically committed to this research for the summer and fall of my junior year, and I could get published as a result. Unfortunately, this means that I won't really be able to start psychology research until the spring of my junior year. It doesn't give me very much time to get experience and to get to know my mentor before applying to grad school. Will the fact that I'm familiar with non-psychological hard-science research make up for my lack of psychological research at all? I'd really like to go straight from undergrad to grad school, partially because I can keep my (excellent) health insurance until I'm 25 as long as I remain a full-time student.

Oh man, thats alot. Im gonna make it semi-short. If you wanrt more info PM me.

1. I'm not really sure what you mean by "biology/chemistry based psychological research," but if you are interested in the neuroscience underlying psychiatric disturbance and neurologic disorders, then neuropsychology is the specialization that will will deal most with that. However, doctoral degrees in experimental psychology such as behavioral neuroscience, and other related medical diciplnes such as molecular neuroscience (for the chemistry part) and neurobiology make this the sole focus of their training, and will prepare one for research careers in these areas. These fields will give much more in-depth training in neuroanatomy and neurochemistry than clinical psychology will. Post doctoral traing in neuropsychology is a 2 year fellowship after the Ph.D. So 5-6 year for the Ph.D in clinical psychology, plus 2 more for the fellowship. If you wold like more information on neuropsychology please visit http://www.div40.org/ to learn more, and see see a list of clinical psychology programs with specializations in neuropsychology.

2. This really just depends on what you would like to go into. If you are really more into neurobiology, do that as a major, but take alot of psych courses. However, If you know from the outset that you want to go into clinical psychology, it really would be best to major in psychology.

3. Ph.D programs in clinical psychology follow a scientist-practitioner model of training. That is, you will be prepared to be a researcher, as well as a provider of psychological services when you are done. Clinical training consists of learning how to diagnosis/assess, and treat (primarily through interventions and psychotherapy) individuals with a wide range of mental disorders. Yes, schizophrenia will be one of them. Yes you will learn how to give and interpret IQ tests and other tests that measure personality and psychopathology. If you are wanting to do neuropsych, you will receive alot of training on psychometric assessment and interpretation. The amount of an emphasis put on clinical training will vary depending on program. Big research schools like University of Michigan, Minnesota, Indiana, etc. really have the goal of producing the researchers, rather than the practitioners. So they will put less emphasis on clinical training (although you will be trained competently) and more into the research end of it, as opposed to places like Auburn.

4. The acceptance rates for Ph.D programs in clinical psych is anywhere from 3%-15%. It is very competitive.

5. If your application are due in Dec or Jan--ask the people the summer before (August is probably ok), and make sure they are done by Oct or Nov or so. Don't wait till the last minute.

6. I don't know any that have rolling admission. Deadlines are usually in Dec or Jan if you want to be incoming the next fall.

7. My experience is that school care about actually getting good research experience more than the topic of that research. Hard science research is fine, but try to get some psych stuff too. You will need to know psych professors for a year or so before than can write you those really strong "glowing" letters. Many Ph.D programs work in a mentor model fashion, so make sure your research interests match the professor you are applying to at a particular school. Matching of research interest is a BIG factor in getting in.

 

[Ollie123]

1 - Can't really give you specifics other than you might want to look into APA divisions. I think neuropsych is really the only "formal" specialty in that there is somewhat of a national standard for it. Maybe "child psych" to some extent. There are boards in other things (that most people don't take) but alot of the others are just based off what you study in grad school. Its much less formal than med school specialization.

2 - Major is good, but not necessary. Just make sure you have prereqs taken (stats, methods, abnormal, etc.)

3 - PhD programs provide generic training for most aspects of clinical practice, though there has been a shift in this recently, and I expect it will continue. You will have the qualification to do all those things, whether or not you have the experience to do so ethically is another matter and depends on your own choices in terms of program, lab, practicums, etc.

4 - No idea overall. Someone posted the average acceptance rates for PhDs was about 10%. Depending on what kind of schools you want to go to that may or may not be an accurate reflection. I think the highest acceptance rate I saw among the schools I was interested in was 8%, and they weren't entirely top-tier. So alot depends on where you apply.

5) August-September sounds about right for me.

6) Never heard of rolling admissions. Given the fact that most programs are accepting no more than 10 or so people, and the importance of fit, it would be pretty idiotic of a program to do this.

7) I don't think its a problem at all to be focusing on your other research right now, it will be a pretty impressive credential, and research experience is great. That being said, I definitely think research in your area of interest is important to have as well so make sure you don't get sucked in completely🙂 It sounds like you will be a competitive applicant, but getting in straight out of undergrad is tough. That being said, unless you have some serious health problems, I wouldn't let the health insurance be too much of a determining factor. Most grad programs offer some kind of coverage for students and its rarely good, but usually adequate for folks in good health.

 

[deleted190534]

4) About what percentage of people who apply to get into psych PhD programs get in each year?

Back in the fall, I was browsing through a book about getting into doctoral programs. (It covered many non-psych areas as well.) The psych chapter was last, & the first line said that clinical psychology PhD programs were cumulatively the most competitive of all fields. It went on to say that as a whole (combined), clinical psych PhD programs only accept 2% of their applicants. I didn't investigate their sources further (as I was standing in Barnes & Noble), but that's what it said.

 

[erg923]

I really think 2% is the lowest, and is among the Yale types, or programs that are only taking take 2 or 3 people per year (i.e., BU). I'd say 8-10% at most mid level programs. 15% at university based Ph.D programs is the absolute max. And I think that could only occur in a program that happens to get less than 100 applicants, and that is rare.

 

[lilies05]

something to keep in mind is that most schools do not allow you to open an online application or download your letter of recommendation forms until sept. you can't have your recommendation writers start until those forms are available to them. you can ask them to write your recommendations whenever you want, but you just may not be able to actually have them start until closer to the fall...

 

[Spin]

Thanks for all the replies!

I really think 2% is the lowest, and is among the Yale types, or programs that are only taking take 2 or 3 people per year (i.e., BU). I'd say 8-10% at most mid level programs. 15% at university based Ph.D programs is the absolute max. And I think that could only occur in a program that happens to get less than 100 applicants, and that is rare.

Hm... ok, so if the average applicant applies to 6 random schools that they match with reasonably well, and if the schools accept someone from the waitlist for every accepted person who turns down an offer, then about 50% of applicants will get accepted somewhere. Not bad.

something to keep in mind is that most schools do not allow you to open an online application or download your letter of recommendation forms until sept. you can't have your recommendation writers start until those forms are available to them. you can ask them to write your recommendations whenever you want, but you just may not be able to actually have them start until closer to the fall...

Wow, I didn't know that. Thanks.

2. This really just depends on what you would like to go into. If you are really more into neurobiology, do that as a major, but take alot of psych courses. However, If you know from the outset that you want to go into clinical psychology, it really would be best to major in psychology.

3. Ph.D programs in clinical psychology follow a scientist-practitioner model of training. That is, you will be prepared to be a researcher, as well as a provider of psychological services when you are done. Clinical training consists of learning how to diagnosis/assess, and treat (primarily through interventions and psychotherapy) individuals with a wide range of mental disorders. Yes, schizophrenia will be one of them. Yes you will learn how to give and interpret IQ tests and other tests that measure personality and psychopathology. If you are wanting to do neuropsych, you will receive alot of training on psychometric assessment and interpretation. The amount of an emphasis put on clinical training will vary depending on program. Big research schools like University of Michigan, Minnesota, Indiana, etc. really have the goal of producing the researchers, rather than the practitioners. So they will put less emphasis on clinical training (although you will be trained competently) and more into the research end of it, as opposed to places like Auburn.

2. Ah, that's the problem. I'm more interested in neurobiological research, but I definitely want to go into clinical psychology.

3. Any idea where I can find a list that shows which schools emphasize what, and what statistics GPA/GRE their applicants have, or do you just have to look at each school individually?

 

[Ollie123]

3. Any idea where I can find a list that shows which schools emphasize what, and what statistics GPA/GRE their applicants have, or do you just have to look at each school individually?

Insider's Guide to Graduate Programs in Clinical and Counseling Psychology.

Check amazon for the latest edition. Its pretty cheap. Its not 100% accurate, but gives you an idea. You definitely still need to look at individual schools though, since it doesn't get down to faculty listing level of specificity, which is what really matters. Its a place to start though.




....I feel like SDN ought to be getting a cut with all the referrals we make to that book😉

 

[erg923]

1. You will be fine with the neurobiology major as long as you take all the prereqs you need for a clinical program (experimental psych, stats, abnormal, developmental, personality are usually the ones). You can also do the major in psych, but keep doing your neurobiology research. That is probably the route i would go.

2. http://www.uky.edu/Education/EDP/clinprog.html

This link list all accredited programs in the US and Canad and will take you directly to the psych department of that university. Then you will have to search through all the faculty and see what their interests are. Most programs have a link somewhere in their pages that give disclosure data of applicant stats over the past 5 years. Most will state in the description of their clinical program how much the emphasize clinical vs research work. Any University of... "insert state name here" is generally gonna be heavy on the research end. You can search for clinical programs that offer neuropsych concentrations consistent with the Houston conference guidelines on training in neuropsychology at http://www.div40.org/training/index.html.

PS: Ollie;s suggestion is good as well

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

....I feel like SDN ought to be getting a cut with all the referrals we make to that book😉

Seriously!

I've been kicking around writing a book @ the topic area. We'll see what happens over the next year or so.

 

[cara susanna]

Program websites list data for incoming students. So that's how you can find average GRE/GPA.

 

[erg923]

"Hm... ok, so if the average applicant applies to 6 random schools that they match with reasonably well, and if the schools accept someone from the waitlist for every accepted person who turns down an offer, then about 50% of applicants will get accepted somewhere. Not bad."

No, no. Your calculation (if I'm understanding you correctly) only works if they were picking people at random from the list of that years applicants. Only in that scenario would everyone have an equal chance getting picked at each university. The acceptance percentage of a school does not equate to an individuals likelihood of being accepted at that school in this case, because you are not taking into account specific stats of the applicants themselves. For example, an applicant applying with a 3.2 and GREs under 1100 will stand little chance of ever getting in. They will never reach the 50% likelihood. Similarly, a person with a 3.5 and 1200 GRE will stand a better chance, but not as big a chance as someone with a 3.9 and 1400 GREs. The "real" chances of you as in individual getting in can only be calculated when taking into account many many factors of your application. They are not picking people at random. They pick the top ten applicants or so. If you have outstanding credentials and numbers, then yes, your chances are raised.

 

[Spin]

"Hm... ok, so if the average applicant applies to 6 random schools that they match with reasonably well, and if the schools accept someone from the waitlist for every accepted person who turns down an offer, then about 50% of applicants will get accepted somewhere. Not bad."

No, no. Your calculation (if I'm understanding you correctly) only works if they were picking people at random from the list of that years applicants. Only in that scenario would everyone have an equal chance getting picked at each university. Acceptance percentage of a school, does not equate to an individuals likelihood of being accepted at that school in this case, because you are not taking into account specific stats of the applicants themselves. For example, an applicant applying with a 3.2 and GREs under 1100 will stand little chance of ever getting in. They will never reach the 50% likelihood. Similarly, a person with a 3.5 and 1200 GRE will stand a better chance, but not as big a chance as someone with a 3.9 and 1400 GREs. The "real" chances of you as in individual getting in can only be calculated when taking into account many many factors of your application. They are not picking people at random. They pick the top ten applicants or so. If you have outstanding credentials and numbers, then yes, your chances are raised.

Right, I know my math is flawed. I wasn't trying to say that everyone had a 50% chance of getting accepted... I was just trying to get an idea of about how many "spots" there are versus how many applicants there are in the whole country in any given year.

 

[Spin]

Oh! One other question: Do schools show a preference for in-state residents?

 

[erg923]

no