Quick question for anyone willing to help! Structured vs. unstructured postbac

[tranquilometro]

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Hello! I've posted on here a couple times and have been learning so much! Thank you for all of your posts.

I am still unclear about the advantages and disadvantages of a structured programs (i.e. the 19 in category 3 of this: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=640302 ) verses just enrolling in nay community college or state school. I need to know this because I should be looking for job now in the city I will live in and also if I should wait to apply to a structured program once I get my degree, or look for jobs in any city I can and just do an unstructured program in whatever city I can find a job.

I am graduating in May 2011 with a degree in anthropology, and want to start in the fall anywhere I can get in. I have only taken some science classes and have a science GPA of 2.41. It's not based on many classes and I only took them in the beginning of college. My overall GPA is probably going to be around 3.1. I have an engineering GPA of 3.75 and an anthropology GPA of 3.7, so I can handle hard classes but it's the classes I took when I started college that held me back.

Thank you so much!

 

[NewmansOwn]

Anything besides career-changer programs is not my area of expertise, but I will warn you that the majority of "postbac programs" of any flavor are little more than unstructured, non-degree seeking endeavors anyway -- except they might cost more. So definitely pick a location you're comfortable in and can thrive and go for it through a local 4-year. Exceptions exist, I'm sure, so I'll defer to someone more familiar with these specific programs to point out any quality ones.

 

[badb100d]

I second what NewmansOwn said, go for the environment where you will be most comfortable. If you're more independent, you'll be fine at an unstructured program, but if you're a bit uncertain maybe you'll prefer a formal post-bacc. Caveats about both: if you're going the unstructured route at your local 4 year (probably a safer choice than at a community college) it may be tough to get into classes if enrollment is really high; look into the best way to handle this and how it will affect your application time frame. For formal programs you might already have too many science classes for some since you say you have a few. Good luck!

 

[tranquilometro]

Thank you both so much! So by 4 year, you mean applying as a non-degree seeking student? Are there any benefits when it comes to applying to a structured verses unstructured program? I am very independent, so that's very exciting to hear from someone else. I want to either live in the Miami, Los Angeles, New York, or San Francisco areas.

 

[NewmansOwn]

Thank you both so much! So by 4 year, you mean applying as a non-degree seeking student? Are there any benefits when it comes to applying to a structured verses unstructured program? I am very independent, so that's very exciting to hear from someone else. I want to either live in the Miami, Los Angeles, New York, or San Francisco areas.

Well, I was basing my response off your interest in, specifically, category 3 programs as listed in Midlife's wonderfully authoritative thread. Some SMPs and SMP-type programs tend to know the students applying to them are sometimes quite desperate to get into medical school and will provide empty promises to get these students to part with their money.

Of course there are benefits to a structured program -- more intimate advising, smaller classes, individualized tutoring, MCAT prep, linkages, etc. The problem is, only a small minority of programs that advertise themselves as "structured postbac programs" actually fit this bill. In the world of career-changer postbac programs -- for those who have only taken 0, 1 or maybe 2 of the prereqs -- there are only maybe 5 or 6 programs that have earned the right to call themselves true, formal, structured postbac premedical programs; until a few years ago, it was only 3.

I think you need to determine what type of program you're eligible for. If you'd like to post what you've taken in terms of classes and standardized tests, we'd be happy to help.

 

[tranquilometro]

I want to avoid this! I am very embarrassed by my record since it's an outdated representation of my capability. I could probably provide a substantial personal statement (although Berkeley's has a 250 word limit!!) explaining my transcript, but my first 4 semesters were very rough. I got diagnosed with a medical condition, was hospitalized, on heavy medication, medically withdrew from a semester, but didn't want to withdraw from more since I didn't want to take forever to graduate and was at a point where I didn't care about anything. I failed chem 2 because I didn't go to the exams nor bothered to drop it. In retrospect, I should have medically withdrew from more semesters, but it's too late now and can only work with my current cards. Anyways, once I got over that hump I managed to bring my GPA up from around a 2.2 to a 3.1. During this course I was in and out of remission, but each time I managed to handle myself better and am trying hard to not let my former academic apathy dim my future.

Chem 1 & 2 = C (but failed chem 2 my 1st try)
Physics 1 & 2 = B
Calc 1, 2, 3, differential eq = C+, B+, B+, B+ (failed calc 2 the first time)
SAT (without writing) = 1340

Not a single A 🙁

My engineering classes don't count towards my science GPA according to my advisor nor do my anthropology classes. I'm only getting an anthropology degree though once May arrives and I graduate.

 

[ScoobyDooo]

Hey tranquilometro,

In regards to whether a career change or a regular program is right for you, I think you should contact the programs directly and ask them. But based on what I have read here, I think you've just missed the maximum amount of science classes allowed by a career change post-bac.

 

[NewmansOwn]

That is a tough break. The problem is, those bad grades were only a year or two ago, so adcoms will unfortunately not see them as outdated at all. As such, my personal opinion is you should enroll as a non-degree seeking student at your local 4-year university (whichever is cheapest) and finish the prereqs, then take many upper-level science courses to increase your GPA. You're looking at 2 or 3 years of full-time classes before you'll be competitive for admission to med school. Take the MCAT whenever you feel most ready for it.

I want to avoid this! I am very embarrassed by my record since it's an outdated representation of my capability. I could probably provide a substantial personal statement (although Berkeley's has a 250 word limit!!) explaining my transcript, but my first 4 semesters were very rough. I got diagnosed with a medical condition, was hospitalized, on heavy medication, medically withdrew from a semester, but didn't want to withdraw from more since I didn't want to take forever to graduate and was at a point where I didn't care about anything. I failed chem 2 because I didn't go to the exams nor bothered to drop it. In retrospect, I should have medically withdrew from more semesters, but it's too late now and can only work with my current cards. Anyways, once I got over that hump I managed to bring my GPA up from around a 2.2 to a 3.1. During this course I was in and out of remission, but each time I managed to handle myself better and am trying hard to not let my former academic apathy dim my future.

Chem 1 & 2 = C (but failed chem 2 my 1st try)
Physics 1 & 2 = B
Calc 1, 2, 3, differential eq = C+, B+, B+, B+ (failed calc 2 the first time)
SAT (without writing) = 1340

Not a single A 🙁

My engineering classes don't count towards my science GPA according to my advisor nor do my anthropology classes. I'm only getting an anthropology degree though once May arrives and I graduate.

 

[tranquilometro]

Thank you for the advice! From everything I've read on here, your advice is the exact same thing I was gathering from all of the information I have read, so it's comforting to hear it from another person. I will still apply to the "Cat 3" programs, just in case I get lucky.

 

[cptproton]

tranquilometro et al.,

Hope you all don't all mind my chiming in. tranquilometro, your stats sound identical to mine! So don't feel bad. I, too, studied engineering but have been out of school for a few years now. Tried to do both pre-med and engineering at the same time and it was too hard. I decided to focus on engineering and now I'm looking to enroll in a either a structured or un-structured post bac. I agree with the others in that I would contact the program. It's also amazing how important location is. For example, doing a post bac in NYC sounds enticing, but ultimately I'm not sure if I could afford or handle living there.

But anyway, if you're about to graduate (which I gather), you might want to stay at your local 4-year college and really improve your science GPA. I'm wondering if I should do the same. I guess the biggest draw back is that the cost happens to be about the same, so I'm wondering if I should try for a more formalized program. Like the others have said, formalized post bacs have the benefits of MCAT tutoring, smaller class sizes, etc. They're also, as I've gathered, hard to get into. I'm not sure if I will have a shot. I'm hoping since I've taken some those science classes a while ago (more than five years ago), that I will be eligible.

Anyway, sorry for rambling. Good luck to you! I'll let you know if I come across anything as I continue to research and understand better myself.

 

[tranquilometro]

Thanks so much! It's nice to know I have a friend going through the same thing! 😀 I didn't even finish my engineering degree, so I can't fall back on that. I am graduating with an anthropology degree instead, because that way I can graduate in May 2011. My engineering GPA is 3.75, so it's hard putting that all behind me, but I have almost two years left in it. I didn't see a light at the end of the tunnel, so I decided to do this major switch! In my head I always had plans of taking the pre-med classes alongside my other classes, but because of my previous low grades, my school wouldn't let me. It's frustrating, since they seem to care more about my first two years of college, than the most recent two. Good luck! Keep me updated. My philosophy is that if I never give up, I can get what I want. This entire thing has been churning in my head for years, but running a marathon (proving LOTS of people wrong - including my parents - even got 4th place in my age group!!!) and hearing from my advisor that I couldn't take the pre-med classes, triggered my drastic decision to change my major and pursue something I cared about.

 

[Sinclaire]

Be aware that if you apply as non-degree seeking at a 4 year institution, they likely will expect you to pay out of pocket (no financial aid, including student loans). I learned that the hard way when I applied as a full-time visiting student at my local state college after I did my FAFSA and went to financial aid office. Fortunately for me, they let me apply as a second-degree seeking transfer student in the winter for spring semester(some schools don't have winter admissions, though). When I'm done taking courses, I'll just change my status back to visiting student. I told my financial aid my situation, and they were fine with it. A lot of non-degree and non-certificate post-bac programs(like UNC-G 's Premedical and Predental Post-Baccalaureate Program) classify their students as pre-professional, 2nd degree to qualify them for financial aid.