Quickly Disillusioned - Need Help

[Psychadelic2012]

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I need some assistance from other doctoral students. I started a PhD program in counseling psychology very recently (yes, in the summer) and I'm starting to seriously wonder if I made a mistake in coming here. I have strong interests in research, psychometrics, and teaching, although the program is generally regarded as a balanced one. In the interview, I was asked about my research interests by faculty and told by students that the faculty support the students in whatever research they want to do--it is not a strict mentor model program. I was also told by faculty that, although there were no official assessment practica in the program, that there are plenty of opportunities to work with psychologists in the area. I was accepted to two similar programs, so I decided to go to this one based on funding and some intangibles. Although I wanted, in my heart of hearts, to attend a research-intensive clinical or experimental program, I wasn't accepted anywhere--I am a career changer, in my 30's, and don't have the greatest stats. I thought I would make this work.

Well, I'm really disillusioned now. My advisor (tenured and in a mainly administrative role) is luke warm about research, the classes (so far) are completely unstimulating and politically charged (and repeat what I have heard time and again in my masters and other graduate courses), and I really don't know how I'm going to reach my goals of working in behavioral health research and assessment with such few options. The statistical coursework is nominal at best--so much so that I will likely transfer it in from my masters degree. Others in my cohort seem to be fitting in well and are therapy-oriented. I do NOT want to be a therapist, at least full-time!! If I wanted that, I would have stopped at my masters degree. I am getting a PhD precisely so that I can perfect my research skills/portfolio and become proficient at diagnostics/testing, with the added bonus of being eligible for a TT position, even if it's more teaching-focused.

I need to know some ways that I can pursue the training and experiences I need, even if my program doesn't hand them to me. I'm working on two pubs now with two previous connections, with invitations from both to continue collaboration--so I know that I can get pubs that way. I need to beef up my stats expertise, though. Where can I go to get training in SEM, HLM, or other multi-level modeling methods? Or any other stats methods? My department doesn't have it. Also, what can I do to get assessment experience when such a practicum won't be handed to me? What would you recommend for balancing my practicum hours efficiently for an appropriate internship? I know I'll likely be able to use my masters prac hours for internship at a UCC, and my doc prac experiences will definitely prepare me for a UCC. That's a safe track, but my goal is to go into academia with skills to work in the VA and/or a hospital setting as equivalent alternates.

Also, what about working as a psychometrician for a psychologist? What is typical? Do students get paid to administer tests and then train to write reports for APPI hours, for example? Is this as good as training in assessment at an agency?

Thanks in advance for the advice.

 

[ADDICTED2STATS]

Your story sounds a lot like mine. I went to a very practice oriented program. Seldom does anyone in my program go on to academia, and there wasn't a strong expectation for research. However, I tried to get involved in as much research as possible. Once you get a reputation for being a research person, people start to seek you out (although, admittedly my mentor was more than "luke warm" about research). I was able to publish 20 empirical articles as a grad student by actively seeking out opportunities.

I had to do the same thing for my stats training. I found a stats person in a different dept and encouraged him to teach a number of advanced stats courses (e.g., IRT, SEM, HLM). I also attended advanced training workshops at ABCT. There are other stats trainings you can go to as well (e.g., the KU stats camp). Once you're known as the stats person, even more people will seek you out (this extends across the entire campus).

Aside from my traditional practicum placements, I made connections with a local psychologist and worked for him as a psychometrician. Although these hours won't count for internship, it gave me great experience and a little extra cash.

Now for the kicker, if you look at the ranking of clinical psych programs, the program I went to falls within the bottom 10. There's an old adage that says you don't get a job at a school better than where you went to school. However, I matched at one of the top research oriented internships in the country and ultimately took a TT position in a clinical science program. I think having to be proactive in your research training gives you a step-up on the competition. Also, I was a career changer in my 30's with a family. Feel free to PM me if you want.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

Wow, thank you so much. I'm so grateful for your post I could cry! That is really good to know and good advice. I do think I will PM you...

 

[cara susanna]

I also attend a more practice-oriented program that doesn't have established research labs, for the most part. It also doesn't work under the mentor model, which makes things more difficult. I've had to make a lot of opportunities for myself by collaborating with different faculty (which my program/dept encourages, actually). A lot of these faculty are experimental, not clinical, so they tend to be more into research. Since your program isn't mentor model, they might be more willing to allow collaboration. Although you may not have exact research matches with other faculty, you can usually develop (or they will) some study that ties into both of your interests. Or even start reading the literature on that interest and see how your interest would fit in, then ask the faculty member "Have you ever done a study looking at X and Y?" Also, I've had the same experience as mentioned above where you develop a reputation for research and people start to offer you opportunities. Or, if you work with another faculty member and you do a good job, you will probably get asked about followup studies. In that way, you may develop a whole new program of research.

My program has mostly assessment-oriented practicum so that hasn't been an issue, sorry.

I can't say if I'm a success story or not yet, though. Just saying that I know where you're coming from.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

Since your program isn't mentor model, they might be more willing to allow collaboration. Although you may not have exact research matches with other faculty, you can usually develop (or they will) some study that ties into both of your interests. Or even start reading the literature on that interest and see how your interest would fit in, then ask the faculty member "Have you ever done a study looking at X and Y?"

Thanks! This is what I'm hoping to do. My program's active research has a wide focus that isn't at all what I've done (or been interested in) in the past, but I'm sure I could make a link in order to publish. I remember you saying that you have many projects happening at once, cara, so I'm glad to hear you are in a similar program so that I can anticipate doing the same--being involved in my own experimental study at the same time I did my masters thesis, I realized that there was certainly a lot of down time! I want to be able to have multiple pans on the fire at the same time, so that I'm always moving forward with something (and slowly moving forward with all of them).

 

[cara susanna]

I definitely have a lot of pans in the fire! I didn't get that way until 3rd year, but I didn't really learn how to effectively make research opportunities for myself until then.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

I think you received good advice above. As far as stats training, if you are at any decent university I find it hard to believe there isn't higher level stats being offered somewhere in the school (bio, pol sci, applied math). If not, there are plenty of other programs around the country. As stated above look into the KU Quant program's stats camp every summer (1 week of training, 8 hours a day in almost any stats area).

As far as assessment, reach out to all the practitioners, as long as you are supervised by someone at your program you can count the hours. Plus, if you have access to assessments through your program that practitioners do not then you may be very useful to them.

Having a non-research adviser might actually work out in your benefit. Research heavy advisers take forever to get anything done and everything you do is never good enough (slightly hyperbolic just to make a point).

Good luck.

 

[Ollie123]

As others have pointed out - make sure you are looking at other departments as well with regards to stats training. I came up with a rather extensive list of stats courses available to me in the other recent thread, but it would have been significantly shorter if I limited it to courses offered in the psych department.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

Well, this has solidified my interest in pursuing stats training in other departments--there are multiple options for that. Question, regarding those external departments within the university that offer stats classes--what if those classes are not on SPSS? I'm really not a math whiz...at all. I'd like to be able to learn something that I can readily use. Can I easily apply SAS or other software to SPSS? Or vice versa, if the other programs are better? I know I need to ask them this question, as well as asking if I can take mostly computer-based stats classes, because I've had such bad stats classes in the past I'd really prefer to have classes that are easily applicable to what I can then turn around and apply to data that I'm familiar with.

 

[Ollie123]

How are you with computers? I'd say that's more critical RE: software selection. Though a graduate biostats class will likely be VERY math heavy (I took one and had to drop since even as an admitted stats geek it was WAY over my head).

I find it quite easy to move back and forth between software. The problem for me is usually pretty nuanced interpretive issues or complex situations that books don't cover (i.e. what to do when this or that assumption is violated). I have a programming background though, so syntax comes easily to me and I rarely ever have problems getting the analysis to "run" - experiences on that front may differ. The only thing I hate is when they use non-standard proprietary software (e.g. HLM, LISREL, M-Plus) that is not always readily available through the university. I do think its easier to go from syntax to menus rather than vice versa, so keep that in mind.

Generally speaking, though, if you can learn non-SPSS software I would do it anyways. Especially if its R since I'm convinced that is going to become the standard in the not-too-distant future. Its painful at first, but I think will pay off in the long run.