Quit All The Whining - Take A Long Hard Look At Yourselves!

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OZDAPO

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Guys, I stumbled across this post and have found it very interesting.

I have a few points to make. I suppose I could sum them up by saying - quit the whining and take a look around you!

Firstly, the grass is always greener on the other side. I had to laugh to myself when jobs in business and law were painted as being "easy money". Sure, if you start up your own business, and it turns out to be a real winner (very very few actually end up being this!), you can make alot of money. But if you want to talk about having no life, then let's talk about owning your own business. No paid holidays, the stress of managing the whole business and the employees, the stress that the whole thing will go down. Sure, you can make more money earlier on as a lawyer, but you've also got to see that the pay rate plateau's out relatively quickly too. And to think that being a lawyer is some stress-free easy ride existence is farcical! Pull your heads out of the sand and speak to a few lawyers. In fact, I think the career choice satisfaction rates are something like 50% for lawyers and 70% for doctors. Maybe you guys should spend some time working in finance or one of those fields - then you'll really know what stress and long hours are like! Sure they get good money for it, but quit the whining and making out that you're all such matyrs!

On the topic of making big money in law, sure a very small percentage make very good money - just like in medicine. But please don't make out that it's only medicine where people are required to work hard. I should know, because I was a lawyer. I have to laugh when I hear my friends who are residents complaining that the hours are bad in medicine - obviously they haven't worked in law or finance! My friends in law regularly work 15 hour days, plus at least one day on the weekend. There is a thing in law called "billable hours" - thank your lucky stars that's not in medicine. Get to a senior level in medicine, and although you won't be having an easy ride workload wise, you will at least have a bit more freedom while at the same time having financial rewards. Get to a senior level in law (i.e. a partner at a large law firm) and your soul really is The Firm's! Gotta get those billable hours up! And it's not all L.A. Law - most of it is mind-numbing drafting in front of a computer screen! Often there is very little interaction with people, and most that is, is usually very "unpleasant" in that you're dealing with either irate clients (they don't call if they're happy) or irate lawyers from the other side of the matter! At least in medicine you have some interaction and can feel like you are doing some good. In law you have the choice of working in a big law firm, servicing a faceless corporate entity for virtually no thanks, endlessly drafting and re-drafting documents to make corporations richer. If you want to "help" people, you can work as a legal-aid lawyer and get paid next to nothing. At least in medicine you have the opportunity to directly help people, and also at the same time get financially rewarded.

In short, I'd be really interested to learn how many of the people whingeing and whining on this thread have actually experienced anything other than going straight from High School to college/university, and then into med. Perhaps it's not necessarily medicine that is to blame for this dissatisfaction? Perhaps people need to really think about why they did medicine in the first place! Was it for a fascination with medicine and people, or was it for some other reason! IMHO I think that it's only the first set of reasons that will help you.
 
Which thread are you talking about. Except for what I'm writing you're the only person who has written. Are you hallucinating?🙂
 
The one entitled "Has Anyone Else Had Enough":


-------------------------
Has anyone decided, after the classroom and rotations, that they are not going on to a residency, or know anyone who's made this decision? Would you share your thought process and what lead you to your decision?
Thanks!
----------------
 
Some people will complain no matter what their situation in life is. I bet if you gave some guys here $10 million dollars cash tax free, a penthouse in NY filled with supermodels, and any new car they wanted then a few of them would start complaining after a while that their life sucks because the view from their penthouse isn't as good as another penthouse down the road and it's a hassle trying to decide what to do with all that money.
 
Regarding all the whining about 3rd year.. .
When you're looking out from the inside of just about any activity, it's always easy to romanticize alternative activities. I agree that many premeds and medical students have no idea how much it sucks to be in business or law, and just how rare it is to be very successful (an associate in investment banking at Goldman, or an associate consultant at Bain/BCG/McKinesy/etc, or a lawer at Cravath). I have a semi-successful friend who graduated from BC law 2 years ago and is making about 80K working in oil law. He spends all his days researching, drafting and redrafting boring legal documents. I worked in IT for a kinda-successful managed care company in Boston. I made 30K, and the work was mind-numbingly boring. I spent most days playing on the internet trading stocks. I saw what other folks in better paid positions were doing, and it was no more interesting. Add to that having to live in a dull, gray block of cubicles for basically your whole working life.

I whine about third year because, in it's own way, it totally sucks. You are perpetually made to feel incompetent, because just as soon as you begin to attain competence in a rotation, you switch to something else where you are totally clueless. Expectations of students are variable and usually unclear. It's very hard to feel like you've done everything you're expected to do, let alone exceed you're resident's expectations. There is a lot of scutwork where you basically run errands and write notes for your residents, where it is typically implied that you are the resident's "bitch". You do what you're told, and if you're lucky, someone might teach you something, or let you go home. Usually the residents are too busy to care about enhancing the experience for students.

Despite all this whining, I know in the end this is all a very good investment for the future. One that will yield a career that is very fulfilling. I also appreciate that the alternatives are far worse in the long run than the BS I have to put up with right now.

I hope I said something useful here.
 
powermd, I think as long as you keep the long-term incentive in mind then you'll make it through. Just remember that even all those attendings and chiefs of departments were like you in the past...running around doing scutwork for other attendings/residents, getting yelled at for things that weren't even remotely their fault, being made feel incompetent, etc. The only thing that really separates you from them is time...in due time you'll get there and look back and see other young med students trying to make it through like you were. And I think the best thing you can do for them is help them out any way you can and not make them feel horrible about themselves along the way. We all know that there are some real *malignant* residents and attendings out there, and they are mostly like this because of how they were treated by other malignant folks throughout med school and residency...its kind of a vicious cycle. Make it a point to not be a part of that cycle in the future, because I don't think you really want to end up another bitter, angry attending who takes out his frustrations on people who can't really do anything about it (i.e. med students and nurses).
 
the original poster makes valid points... however, i think you should consider the fact that medical school ( for some of us at least ) requires taking up over 150k in loans. not to mention the attractive earning potential of 35-45k/yr for 3-7 yrs post graduate in residency.

and as someone who entered medical school right outta graduation, i cant help but think 'what if' sometimes. esp, when i see my college graduate friends who are mid 20s now and are making money.... or some of which are attending top 10 law schools (where you just have to be middle of class to secure a 100k plus coming out)..... and i think these guys arent any smarter or more motivated than i am, and as such i could be doing that too. instead of.... living off loans and working equally if not as hard as my friends and not having any money until i'm mid 30s. its not easy being mid 20s right now and not having an income.

yea.. yea yea... its not ALL about money. but anybody who has NEVER 'whinned' (as the original poster would like to put it) ... while going through this long road to become a MD has got to be either a mother theresa type of just plain naiive.

i just think its funny when people carry a holy than tho attitude and question other peoples 'true' desires to enter medicine. i dont think anyone would do medicine if they solely wanted to 'help people'... its just too much a sacrifice/long road to have to endure to accomplish that. further, i dont think any one really did medicine to make bank... thatd be stupid.

with that said, i think 'whinning' about your career field is heathy, so let it be.
 
Originally posted by j_sde
i dont think anyone would do medicine if they solely wanted to 'help people'... its just too much a sacrifice/long road to have to endure to accomplish that.

I agree with some of your points. But this is one comment that is not quite true. There are some people that do, in fact, just want to help people. If you need proof, check out some organzations where doctors are working for free. If you really have some time on your hands, check out what is going on at Doctors Without Borders. Yup, docs doing it just to help people. Having said that, I agree that everyone has their own reasons for entering med. Most people probably have more than "helping people" on their list of reasons. But for some of us, particularly those of us that changes our career paths to go med, "helping people is terribly high on the list.

I also wanted to make a comment about all this talk about law careers. I have 2 friends that graduated from law at a pretty top notch school. The one who graduated two years ago works in a district attorney's office being the district attorney's "bitch" (Please keep the following quote in mind here:"There is a lot of scutwork where you basically run errands and write notes for your residents, where it is typically implied that you are the resident's "bitch") . The other is about to graduate and plans to move to a major city because he can't find a good job where he is. I can't say I envy either. I wonder how long it will take them to start earning good money. 4-7 years post grad? Well what a coincidence! Thats how long a residency takes!
 
I honestly believe that people don't go into medicine "just to help people". Even docs who work in organizations like "Doctors Without Borders" for free aren't doing it solely to help people. I mean, medical school is tough and requires a lot of sacrifice, but I know for a fact that there is always more than one reason that people go into the medical field. I'm not talking about money, I'm talking about fascination with science, pathology, continuing education, and the like. Honestly, if all someone really wants to do is "help people" that person could easily do it by doing something else, and I think that such a person should, especially if that person HATES SCIENCE AND DOESN'T WANT TO GAIN ANYMORE THAN SEVERAL YEARS WORTH OF SKILLS AND KNOWLEDGE. Because if you don't like science, you aren't going to like what you have to learn in use in medical school.

Helping people may be the primary reason (for most if not all of us, I believe), but it can't possibly be the only one.
 
Originally posted by j_sde
the original poster makes valid points... however, i think you should consider the fact that medical school ( for some of us at least ) requires taking up over 150k in loans. not to mention the attractive earning potential of 35-45k/yr for 3-7 yrs post graduate in residency.

:laugh: I note your sarcasm there!!:laugh:
 
I'm an entering M1, and I know I "shouldn't" be talking, but what a bunch of goddamn wusses I'm seeing here. Now I plan on aiming at a "lifestyle" speciality like optho, but the bitching about third year is ridiculous. Its one year of strenuous work and I'm sorry if you feel demeaned and incompetent. All third years are incompetent, that's the point. What did you expect?

Its called working your way up in the world. You haven't made it yet. Medicine is one of the few professions in that if you stay the course you'll get to be in a great position. In other fields there are NO guarantees. In medicine, there are, and I'm sorry if you have to work for them. Keep your eyes on the prize.

My moment of weakness will come, but I can't see myself whining like this. I'm sorry.
 
Yeah, snoopdizzle, you really shouldn't be talking. You haven't even STARTED med school yet. You've got no right, my man, since you don't have a freakin' CLUE what med school is all about.
 
Originally posted by snoopdizzle
I'm an entering M1, and I know I "shouldn't" be talking, but what a bunch of goddamn wusses I'm seeing here. Now I plan on aiming at a "lifestyle" speciality like optho, but the bitching about third year is ridiculous. Its one year of strenuous work and I'm sorry if you feel demeaned and incompetent. All third years are incompetent, that's the point. What did you expect?

Its called working your way up in the world. You haven't made it yet. Medicine is one of the few professions in that if you stay the course you'll get to be in a great position. In other fields there are NO guarantees. In medicine, there are, and I'm sorry if you have to work for them. Keep your eyes on the prize.

My moment of weakness will come, but I can't see myself whining like this. I'm sorry.


My God, this would be funny if not coming from someone about to enter a profession where empathy is supposed to be a cardinal value. Suffice to say you have no idea what you're talking about. Your new-college-grad idealism is adorable, but incredibly naive. If all these posts, plus those in "had enough" don't at least raise an eyebrow about what lies ahead for you, you need a serious reality check.

Here is a suggestion- print out your post and tuck it away somewhere. Read it again at the end of your third year, preferably with a few comrads- I guarantee some hearty laughs.
 
Yes, yes. I have always thought of medical school as strongly analogous to going into a monestary or boot camp. Everyone I talk to speak of it as a time of incredible sacrifice, but I think that I want that. Granted, I have not tested myself in terms of sleep deprivation, and I do empathize with anyone having problems with that. However, every profession hazes its youngsters in some way or another.

Also, I'm wondering how many people complaining about third year have worked a job for an extended period of time? After being a student your whole life and going to an intense job can be a huge jump. It was for me in my year off.

I saw this video recently about "the making of a doctor" documenting students at Harvard. They all whined incredibly third year, but gleamed with pride at graduation and said it was all worth it. After a cushy 4th year, I think most people put it behind them and are well prepared for residency. Oh well, we'll see what I turn into. C'est la vie.
 
Originally posted by snoopdizzle
Yes, yes. I have always thought of medical school as strongly analogous to going into a monestary or boot camp. Everyone I talk to speak of it as a time of incredible sacrifice, but I think that I want that. Granted, I have not tested myself in terms of sleep deprivation, and I do empathize with anyone having problems with that. However, every profession hazes its youngsters in some way or another.

Also, I'm wondering how many people complaining about third year have worked a job for an extended period of time? After being a student your whole life and going to an intense job can be a huge jump. It was for me in my year off.

I saw this video recently about "the making of a doctor" documenting students at Harvard. They all whined incredibly third year, but gleamed with pride at graduation and said it was all worth it. After a cushy 4th year, I think most people put it behind them and are well prepared for residency. Oh well, we'll see what I turn into. C'est la vie.

Med school is not a sacrifice, it's an investment of time, money, and sanity that returns a lot more money, and job satisfaction that is hard to find in other careers. And med school is completely unlike a monestary or boot camp in that people entering medical school have no idea what they're in for until they are neck deep in it and $100K in debt. If you want true sacrifice, join the peace corp.

Sleep deprivation is only one of the many, many petty and not-so-petty tortures med students endure. Go back and read the "had enough" thread for a better understanding of why 3rd year med students are so bitter.
 
Originally posted by snoopdizzle
[BI'm wondering how many people complaining about third year have worked a job for an extended period of time? After being a student your whole life and going to an intense job can be a huge jump. [/B]

Before medical school, I worked a 40 - 50 hr/wk "regular" job. I started a consulting company and ended up working 40 - 80 a week in addition to the regular job.

I thought I was working hard at the time, but now I miss it. While often sleep deprived, I knew my role and what was expected of me, felt like an expert, and was treated well by my clients. Even the most hardass clients became softies when you prove to them their relatively small investment in you paid off by decreasing overhead by 10 - 30%.

Third year is draining because you usually have no idea of your role, are initially clueless about how your service manages patients, are the whipping dog for everyone from attendings to enviromental services, and by the time you feel comfortable on a service, its time to rotate.

For most students, working hard isn't the problem. It's the stress not knowing what your doing, being made to feel stupid daily, and all of the other bs that leads to a feeling of "learned helplessness". This lifestyle is physically and emotionally demanding, and wears you down. Thank God, I only have 5 weeks of third year left...

For those of you telling us to suck it up, you might as well just go away. Everyone has to vent at times, and who better to vent to than people in the same situation as you or have survived it. I tend to have the "get over it" attitude about most things, but if someone wants to "whine" about third year, I will be a supportive listener. If you aren't going through this or haven't been through it, then your negative comments don't really mean squat.
 
Snoopdizzle, in accordance with what powermd wrote above, I highly doubt that you'll go through med school without one whine out of your mouth.

You're seriously living in some kind of fantasy world when you believe that working a 30+ hour call night every fourth night with 2-3 hours of sleep, then having an attending yell at you for something stupid like crossing out a word in your progress note with double lines and not a single line, then having to go home and study so you won't look stupid the next day when the attending doc pimps the hell out of you, is not something to whine about! This happens more often than you think.

Get your head out of your ass, and next time wait until you have a clue about what you're talking about instead of pretending that you do.
 
Ouch. Obviously you guys have a right to vent, and I'm a whiner by nature. The nature of the original thread was "had enough" and whether you were gonna go into residency after experiencing third year. Some people complain like crazy about it, others don't. I'd like to optimistic/naive about medical school. And you can't deny it, fantasyland/head up my ass-ville is pretty nice.

Sorry for pissing anyone off.
 
Originally posted by snoopdizzle
Also, I'm wondering how many people complaining about third year have worked a job for an extended period of time? After being a student your whole life and going to an intense job can be a huge jump. It was for me in my year off
I worked fulltime while I went to school fulltime as an undergrad, plus volunteered in an ED, and med school kicked my ass compared to that. Not third and fourth year though...they were relatively easier than our first and second years. Probably depends a lot on your curriculum and how competitive your classmates are.

Then, surgery intern year just eclipsed everything else. I barely remember anything about it 'cause I was so chronically exhausted the entire time.
 
I don't fault people for leaving medicine or finding non-clinical use for their MD (medical journalism/editing, strict bench research, etc.).

Every year, we lose a few students who drop out because of lack of interest or difficulty handling the work load. Many of these folks are a bit idealistic at first, and realize that medicine isn't for them after reality sets in. They see respect, mad cash, and an extravagant lifestyles complete with the porche, yacht, and multi-million dollar home. It doesn't take long to realize that the respect level and the income of physicians has significantly decreased and continue to decline. After you see your Intro to med IM attending driving a 10 year-old Camry, working 70 hrs/week, and on the verge of a divorce, you realize that medicine may entail sacrifice that you are not willing to make. There is absolutely NO shame in this.
 
You're absolutely correct. I kinda regret making that post, anyway. Haste makes waste.

However, I still think there are possibilities to have a normal life in medicine. I'm shooting for the normal hours in optho with no hopes of a Porsche or a mansion filled with women in bikinis. As for respect, nowadays no one is respected as much as they used to be. As Chris Rock said about education...

"Hey, I just got my Master's!"
"So what, you my master now, bitch. Ya punk-ass bitch. Master these rocks muthaf*cka"
 
Who wants to drive a Porsche anyway? The only Porsches I ever see are driven by balding old men going through a mid-life crisis.

I haven't started med school yet either, but I know that the next ~10 years are going to be hell. I also know that it won't last forever, and that's the price I have to pay to be a physician. I also know that there's a good chance that the years after these next ten or so won't be rosy either, but I can't really think of any other way I'd like to spend the rest of my life. I hope those of you who are feeling disenchanted can eventually find hapiness, whether it's in medicine or some other profession.
 
Entei,

I'm glad you have this attitude, as it will serve you well during your path to becoming a physician. Don't take our complaints as disenchantment, as this isn't the case. Medical education is tough and often unfair so rough times are inevitable. B*tching to a sympathic ear serves as a defense mechanism and can make you feel better about things over which you have no control. I am happy with my decision to become a physician and cannot imagine a more fullfilling career.

Good Luck...
 
Originally posted by OZDAPO

I have to laugh when I hear my friends who are residents complaining that the hours are bad in medicine - obviously they haven't worked in law or finance! My friends in law regularly work 15 hour days, plus at least one day on the weekend. There is a thing in law called "billable hours" - thank your lucky stars that's not in medicine. Get to a senior level in medicine, and although you won't be having an easy ride workload wise, you will at least have a bit more freedom while at the same time having financial rewards.

actually physician workload varies considerably depending on how they get paid. some guys get screwed over in a high risk practice and end up working 12+ hrs/day to pay for costs and hopefully make a profit.
to say that law and finance have bad hours is a gross overstatement. it varies considerably.
i think the guy is just on a rant.
 
hmmm. did anyone who watched the NOVA show on the Harvard grads actually watch the whole series? 3/4 of the men profiled got divorced during residency, and 1 woman who was smiling at graduation ended up later weeping to Barbara Walters on national TV about how she had never married at age 38 and worried that she never would. ouch. I think that many med students are capable of handling 3rd year itself, but are woefully unprepared for the toll it can take on one's personal life. I fear for my male classmates who are planning to marry women from professions such as early childhood/elementary education that usually are not as demanding as medical residencies based on what I saw in the movie on Harvard MD students. I think people who go through saying "oh I'm 23 but it will all be perfect, I will always understand my future husband forever and ever no matter what even though I am not in the medical field" are in for quite the shock, as are their spouses and families. I may very well be in for the same shock since my current S.O. is NOT a medical student, just some food for thought..
 
and 1 woman who was smiling at graduation ended up later weeping to Barbara Walters on national TV about how she had never married at age 38 and worried that she never would. ouch.

Very interesting... I guess this is why people say that as a woman, if you don't start medical school with a significant other, you may never find one...While this is a gross generalization it is sad that it is too often true.

Peace ~ Doc
 
Originally posted by powermd
Regarding all the whining about 3rd year.. .
I whine about third year because, in it's own way, it totally sucks. You are perpetually made to feel incompetent, because just as soon as you begin to attain competence in a rotation, you switch to something else where you are totally clueless. Expectations of students are variable and usually unclear. It's very hard to feel like you've done everything you're expected to do, let alone exceed you're resident's expectations. There is a lot of scutwork where you basically run errands and write notes for your residents, where it is typically implied that you are the resident's "bitch". You do what you're told, and if you're lucky, someone might teach you something, or let you go home. Usually the residents are too busy to care about enhancing the experience for students.


**I hope entering third year students are not too discouraged by this post. I personally found 3rd year an exciting (although I admit challenging) and rewarding time. I realize that there is much variation in clerkship experiences from medical school to medical school and even within the same medical school at different institutions or with different attendings. I do firmly believe that each rotation I did taught me something and that with some effort most students can expect this on most rotations.

That said, I think that there are things that medical students can and should do to optimize their clinical experiences. When I work with medical student I try to determine their initial fund of knowlege and clinical competencies at the beginning of the rotation. I then challenge them to identify at least one or two goals for the month, and we work together on those learning or competency goals. This system seems to work well because it makes things explicit and makes it easier for me teach efficiently which is key on those busy services.

Discussing goals is a good spring board for discussing the expectations for the month. If you are on a rotation where expectations are not clear after the first 2 days then you should ask for clarification. I know that I really have to focus on my teaching when the service gets busy with volume or acuity (or both if you have my black cloud) I rely on the students (and tell them this at the beginning of the month) to ask questions when things are not clear and to let me know if they feel my expectations are not workable.

I do believe that medical students can make meaningful contributions to the "team" and to their patients care. Since medical students carry fewer patients they have the opportunity to devote more time to each patient. Medical students can provide valuable social support (which I think reinforces compassion and helps us see the patient with an illness rather than just the illness). It is helpful to me when medical students followup on labs, help schedule procedures for their patients, etc. I have never asked students to do things I haven't done and won't continue to do throughout the month. The reality is that successful physicians do what they need to do to provide quality care. Good attendings grab blankets, start ivs, and schedule appointments when it needs to be done and and no one else is doing it efficiently. I do not believe that "scut work" is beneath any of us. If this system works well then we all provide better care and learn more. This is particularly critical when the service is busy. For example one morning I did an admission with one of the medical students we discussed the labs/ workup. I wrote orders and an admit H&P (in our system medical student documentation never replaces resident documentation), and directed the medical student to topics for review. The next admission of the day ended up being critical, a patient I intubated and then admitted to the ICU. Our medical student found me later in the ICU as I sutured the patient's central line in place. Our other patient's labs had come back abnormal we discussed further workup and plan as I cleaned up my central line tray and awaited an Xray for confirmation. Due to the student diligently following up the labs we were able to proceed efficiently with care. Additionally the student learns from the experience as I had time to teach some while awaiting the Xray and repeat ABG on the ICU patient (time I might have spent checking the labs and then calling to add on the additional tests to the workup)

Finally respect is a key ingredient of quality health care and medical education. Be respectful of your patients (introduce yourself. ask permission to examine--and listen for their consent rather than proceeding full force into the exam etc). Treat your fellow students, nursing and other allied staff, and your residents and attendings with respect. Expect to be treated respectfully by those individuals as well. We all have bad days but if you are being consistently mistreated by someone on the team then it is appropriate to discuss this with the attending, or your clerkship director.
 
I just finished med school, and can honestly say I did very little whinning - especially during my third year, which I personally enjoyed way more than the classroom years. We all choose to go to med school, people warned us how hard it would be at times, but we still chose to do it. Unless someone held a gun to your head and forced you to go to med school, you should not be crying about having this opportunity to learn medicine.

Perhaps the biggest reason I kept my whining to a minimum is that I frequently met patients who were single moms working two jobs, taking college classes, still unable to make ends meet and with no health insurance. I thought, hey, I work hard, but eventually I'll get to a point where I know I'll earn a good living even if I choose to work only 40 hours a week (which can still be done in many specialties if you're not too greedy for money). Meanwhile, this patient will likely have very little improvement in her future, despite the fact that she works 60+ hours a week and likely has bosses treating her just as disrespectfully as some of you feel you get treated by your attenings and residents. Hard to feel sorry for yourself when you think about this.
 
QUOTE: " I guess this is why people say that as a woman, if you don't start medical school with a significant other, you may never find one...While this is a gross generalization it is sad that it is too often true."

Just wanted to dispel this myth some more. My class was 50/50 male/female. I can only think of less than 5 girls at graduation without a significant other, and most of those with boyfriends/fiances/husbands met the guy while in med school. There were more engagements during fourth year than you can beleive - some to other med students/residents, some to totally non-medical people. Guess what else? Zero divorces in my class or that I know of in any other class during my time in med school, despite lots of married people. That said, there were many serious dating relationships which broke up during med school (with female students who may have gotten married earlier if they weren't in med school) - but they were relationships that weren't meant to last anyway, so it's better off they delayed the marriage and the kids and had a simpler breakup anyway, right?

As I was thinking about the impact a surgery residency would have on my happiness in my marriage, an happily-married-for 30 years-surgery-attending gave me this advice: It's not the residency or the specialty that breaks up marriages, it's marriages that were not strong enough from the start. Sure, your hours will challenge your ability to mainatian relationships, but it can be done, and we'll see this as more and more women enter medicine and successfully mainatin relationships.
 
Originally posted by RuralMedicine
**I hope entering third year students are not too discouraged by this post...

...When I work with medical student I try to determine their initial fund of knowlege and clinical competencies at the beginning of the rotation... because it makes things explicit and makes it easier for me teach efficiently which is key on those busy services...

...If you are on a rotation where expectations are not clear after the first 2 days then you should ask for clarification...

...We all have bad days but if you are being consistently mistreated by someone on the team then it is appropriate to discuss this with the attending, or your clerkship director.

Where the heck were you during my third year?! Unfortunately, Powermd's comments sum up my 3rd year experience almost perfectly. Perhaps it is just my school which is somewhat competitive and attracts competetive people for residencies.

With the exception of my surgery rotation which I just completed, I spent 10 months as a "professional s*it taker". 42 weeks of q4 call and only being noticed when you make mistakes has a tendency to leave you really burnt out and jaded. During the first week of my surgery rotation, I picked up a film for one of my upper levels. He said "thank you" in a sincere manner, and I was actually taken aback at this simple act of consideration.

A friend of mine recently went to a course director with a problem because during orientation, the guy said "if you have any problems, please let me know." My friend complained his dissatisfaction about lack of teaching and functioning as a runner/notewriter with no feedback. The course director announced at the resident conference that evening something to the effect of "Mr. student feels that he is not receiving adequate teaching. Furthermore, he feels that he is being asked to do things beneath him and is not receiving adequate feedback. Please rectify the situation." The poor guy got pimped mercilessly and was scutted to death for the rest of the rotation. His grade was in my opinion way below his level of performance, and all of his comments were to the effect that he was not a "team player."

Anyway, you do whatcha got do to make it happen. I'm glad to be moving on to 4th year, where things get much better.
 
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