Quit PhD for MD?

[TBT2]

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Hi-

I'm sure this has been addressed but looking for advice/opinions nonetheless. I am currently a PhD student in Biomedical Sciences. I have completed my first year and I have never dreaded each day more then I do right now. I had been pre-med but got very involved in research and since I had a lower GPA (3.35) my P.I. had me thoroughly convinced that research was my way to make a mark in the sciences and thought I had no shot at med school.

I had really enjoyed research in my undergrad but have really come to hate it now (and as part of our program we rotate through multiple labs before picking one so I've see the range options). I just feel I might not have the personality type. I am very Type A, the kind of person that the more there is to get done, the more driven I am. I like to have a plan and a checklist and make progress each day. I also like to work alone but like a comfortable/pleasant work atmosphere. I struggle with the hurry up and wait or 6months of data down the drain when no difference is found between populations. I have no desire anymore to set up my own lab, write grants, fight for tenure, try to publish novel work. And so far no industry job is of interest. I know I toss these reasons out and they sound shallow but I've pulled together lots of pro/cons list over this. I tried transferring into a MSTP program but where I am it requires quitting my current program and re-applying. I know that many would say I should just finish and then re-evaluate going to med school then but I am already a non-traditional student (27yr married female) and my degree would take 4 more years. I am starting to be more and more convinced that I should stop now and apply to medical schools. My main question is: will med schools look poorly on quitting a grad program?

The other caveat: I also have my paramedic's license and work shifts on the weekend. No matter how crappy the shift is (say 20calls in 24hrs) I still have a good time. I like the adrenaline rush, the decision making, responsibility, variable environment, different patients, and the blood/guts/heart attacks/car accidents/etc. However, I don't want to be "just a paramedic" and feel I can attain a higher level of responsibility/education. I've also worked in an ED for several years and love the atmosphere/environment and patient contact...I know there are huge cons to the medical field but feel they are more tolerable then the ones I currently face.

Some downsides of the switch: burning some big bridges (very few PhD in my program would appreciate the desire to follow a clinical medicine route), quitting, losing my stipend and scholarship, having to go into debt for medical school, not being able to start until 2013 (wouldn't be able to make this application cycle)...just to name a few.

If anyone has bothered to read this novel, I'd appreciate any thoughts, advice, opinions!

 

[BrightandClear]

Since it sounds like you want to go straight MD, and not MD/PhD, you may be better off posting this in the pre-allo forum. There are a couple of adcoms/advisers who post there that are very helpful. I think you are right to be considered about how quitting your grad program will reflect on you.

Edited to add:
I'm also fairly sure that this has been discussed previously in the pre-allo forum. Try running a search...

 

[PfNO22]

Deep breath, you. phew.

I like to have a plan and a checklist and make progress each day. I also like to work alone but like a comfortable/pleasant work atmosphere.

This sounds totally normal for a researcher, and sounds like you need to find a better fit laboratory. Lab work is often alone, and I consider some of my past labs to have been comfortable and pleasant.

I think lists are necessary, but I don't exactly understand why you can't do them in your work? 😕 😕 😕

I have no desire anymore to set up my own lab, write grants, fight for tenure, try to publish novel work. And so far no industry job is of interest.

Honestly, this doesn't sound very type A to me...

The other caveat: I also have my paramedic's license and work shifts on the weekend. No matter how crappy the shift is (say 20calls in 24hrs) I still have a good time. I like the adrenaline rush, the decision making, responsibility, variable environment, different patients, and the blood/guts/heart attacks/car accidents/etc.

This doesn't sound like a caveat, it sounds like a future! It sounds like a distraction and a reason you are unhappy in grad school. What about other directions in prehospital medicine? Have you considered doing research directly applicable to paramedic work? Every drug you push, every component of your ACLS algorithms, even the wave form of the shock in your defibrillator was researched!!

However, I don't want to be "just a paramedic" and feel I can attain a higher level of responsibility/education. I've also worked in an ED for several years and love the atmosphere/environment and patient contact...I know there are huge cons to the medical field but feel they are more tolerable then the ones I currently face.

Maybe you need to find a different place to be a paramedic. Maybe you can find a city where as a paramedic you are not "just a paramedic"! Like Seattle.

Do you read JEMS? Many authors are much more than just paramedics. They do other things too. They are in public policy, leadership, education... Is there a pro/con list for this?


Have you ever read Ambulance Girl????

In other news, the first two years of grad school are ones that almost everybody hates... You are not alone in hating grad school... It seems like maybe your PhD is in basic research?

 

[StIGMA]

Actually the first 2 years are typically the years that students are the most satisfied during the PhD (http://www.nature.com/naturejobs/2011/110728/full/nj7357-533a.html).

You sound like you would much rather pursue medicine than research, but you also have to realize that you are not guaranteed a spot to medical school. It may be more safe to stay in your graduate program until you know you will have a good shot- meaning that you have letters of support and a good MCAT. Will you be able to leave the program with a master's degree?

You should also be open to DO programs. If you do not get in to medical school, what is your plan? Would you be willing to go to PA school? Why do you not want to pursue PA school right now- what makes MD/DO the only route for you? Do you want to be in training (through residency) through a minimum of 2020, working 60-80 hours a week for years?

These are just some things to think about.

 

[TBT2]

Thanks for the replies..I did search in pre-allo and found one other similar post. Interestingly, a lot of people (especially those who had previously been in the same boat) said quit now as it's not worth wasting the time if you're not committed.

That said, I explored the PA option before I applied to grad school and it just wasn't a good fit. For personal reasons, I don't want to be a paramedic for the rest of my life. I had always wanted to be a doctor; ever since I was a kid. And I will admit with candor and with some shame that I have always let people talk me out of it (my husband who thought it'd be too hard for a family, my PI who was just so gung-ho about getting me to go to grad school, myself for doubting that a 3.35 would get me in anywhere, and the list could go on).

I am not scared of the hard work it takes to be an MD. I work my butt off now (12-16hr days Mon-Fri) and then paramedic shifts on the weekend. I just think it takes huge dedication to follow through with a 5-7yr PhD and if I'm doubting it so much now and just getting more and more depressed; it is worth it just to say I did it?

 

[TBT2]

And I read the article about grad students and level of satisfaction..."Of first-year students who responded to the survey, 76% were “satisfied” or “very satisfied” that is WAY higher then I would have thought! That's actually even more depressing! That means 3/4's of the people in my shoes are actually enjoying coming to the lab everyday?

 

[StIGMA]

That said, I explored the PA option before I applied to grad school and it just wasn't a good fit. For personal reasons, I don't want to be a paramedic for the rest of my life. \

To avoid any confusion - by PA, I meant Physician Assistant, not paramedic. PA's are routinely compensated in the 80-120k range, have shorter training, and have better/more regular hours than physicians.

I do not think that the article means that that # of people necessarily enjoy lab work everyday- but that they are satisfied with their pursuit of graduate school in general.

 

[GellaBella]

Hi TBT2I just completed my PhD a year ago, and like you was very unsatisfied with the quality of life as a researcher. Unlike you, I was happy until about 3 years in, after I had already passed my qualifying exams etc so I decided to stick it out and finish the degree. Now I'm in veterinary school at UPenn.If I had known after my first year that research was not what I wanted to do, I would have quit then. Trust me. If you hate it now, you will hate it so much more in the future. I know that people say that quitting a graduate program can look bad for future application cycles, and maybe you will have to explain a bit why you left your program and why you're SURE that medicine is right for you, but I can tell you I had to answer those same questions having completed my PhD.I think it is better to quit after a year than in your 3rd or 4th year. You aren't letting a PI down, you haven't spent a PI's money, and it shows that it just really wasn't a good fit for you and that you knew it from the beginning.You may be able to talk to your program and switch into the masters program instead. Then you could complete another year taking either courses (sometimes with the med students) or doing research but with an end in site.Just as an anecdote, I have a friend who dropped out of a PhD program at Columbia after the first year. She had no problem gaining acceptance to veterinary school and no one even asked her about it. Don't waste another potentially 5+ years being miserable.

 

[K31]

A career as a researcher isn't for everyone. You are lucky to have figured out that it isn't for you after only spending a year on it. If you are dissatisfied now, you would be completely miserable by the time you are a fourth or fifth year grad student.

Medical school isn't an easy path, but then again neither is graduate school. However, it sound like the only way you'd be happy is being a physician.

Your GPA isn't optimal, but it's not a dealbreaker. With a decent MCAT, an extensive background in medicine, and a compelling reason for why you want to go to medical school, I think you could be a successful applicant.

Good luck!

 

[TBT2]

A career as a researcher isn't for everyone. You are lucky to have figured out that it isn't for you after only spending a year on it. If you are dissatisfied now, you would be completely miserable by the time you are a fourth or fifth year grad student.

Medical school isn't an easy path, but then again neither is graduate school. However, it sound like the only way you'd be happy is being a physician.

Your GPA isn't optimal, but it's not a dealbreaker. With a decent MCAT, an extensive background in medicine, and a compelling reason for why you want to go to medical school, I think you could be a successful applicant.

Good luck!

Anyone's thoughts on how to break it to my P.I. and the head of my program? I feel like I almost owe them to finish since they accepted me and have worked hard to acclimate me into the program. It feels like I can't expect anything other then anger and burned bridges by leaving. But the thought of 4! more years! and then living it the rest of my career?

I had thought it was such a "noble" undertaking. We do a lot of research on cancer, pain, neurodegenerative diseases so I really thought I'd love it...the "behind the scenes" helping people. I even had myself convinced that it was a way to have an even bigger impact on medicine then going to medical school. Now I feel like the reason a lot of the researchers at my lab are doing this work is because its the current hot topics and the way to get funding. There's a lot less feel of trying to help people then there is the mentality of publishing before our work gets scooped or getting another R01 grant. I admit maybe I was very unrealistic and naive in my desire to "benefit humanity" through research. It's been hard to hold on to that goal and mind-set in the day to day reality of what research really entails.

Appreciate everyone's imput. My husband is an engineer so trying to get him to understand the drive to be a physician over a researcher is tough.

And to StIGMA: I did mean Physician Assistant too. I looked into it and shadowed several fantastic PA's but would rather go the MD route if I change my educational track.

 

[K31]

Anyone's thoughts on how to break it to my P.I. and the head of my program? I feel like I almost owe them to finish since they accepted me and have worked hard to acclimate me into the program. It feels like I can't expect anything other then anger and burned bridges by leaving. But the thought of 4! more years! and then living it the rest of my career?

It's not an easy converstaion, but you're hardly the first person to drop out of a PhD program and you won't be the last. This is something graduate program directors have experience with. Just schedule an appointment, explain your reasons, thank them for their help but your goals have changed since you entered graduate school. Also find out if you can get out with a master's degree so you won't won't come out of this year empty-handed.

You can say many of the same things to your PI as you say to the grad program--you appreciate the time he's invested in you, but you've decided that this research thing isn't for you. Treat it like a breakup--"It's not you, it's me." It will make your PI's life much easier to not have a miserable grad student in his lab for the next several years.

I've gone through a similar transition over the past few years in graduate school. While I do still enjoy research, I've come to the realization that I'd be happiest being primarily/exclusively clinical (in emergency medicine as well). I'm working on wrapping up my PhD right now, and I have yet to explain to my PI and the MD/PhD program that I'm unlikely to continue research once I graduate.

I had thought it was such a "noble" undertaking.

I admit maybe I was very unrealistic and naive in my desire to "benefit humanity" through research. It's been hard to hold on to that goal and mind-set in the day to day reality of what research really entails.

Research is a noble undertaking, but medicine is as well. Neither is an easy road, and some people are better suited to one than another. You are fortunate to have figured out relatively early which fits you better.

Appreciate everyone's imput. My husband is an engineer so trying to get him to understand the drive to be a physician over a researcher is tough.

Sit him down and explain to him what you've told us here. As your husband, your happiness should be of primary concern to him.

 

[BrightandClear]

I just reread your first post, if you can't apply until next cycle, I would highly recommend staying and finishing your masters (if you can). You have the time, and you'll end up with something to show for your time/work.

Also, it sounds like you are making the right decision for the right reasons. I've also had many people (particularly friends and family) try and talk me into a straight PhD, so I have an idea of how you feel. I hope everything works out for you. 🙂

 

[K31]

I just reread your first post, if you can't apply until next cycle, I would highly recommend staying and finishing your masters (if you can). You have the time, and you'll end up with something to show for your time/work.

I mentioned this briefly, but I want to reemphasize this point. You've worked hard for a year and you should get something out of it. Once you are done with your first year, there often isn't that much you need to do to graduate with a master's degree. A master's degree in biology will also help with med school admissions (not huge, but not inconsequential either).

 

[TBT2]

Thanks everyone! Appeciate the insight and advice.

Now I just have to decide to do it and make the plunge. It's very difficult to give up what really is a terrific opportunity (albeit one I'm fairly miserable in) for the unknown and the possibility I won't/can't get into medical school. Feels a bit like sky-diving without a parachute...think med school's should give you more credit for taking the jump. 🙂

 

[Silverfalcon]

I had thought it was such a "noble" undertaking. We do a lot of research on cancer, pain, neurodegenerative diseases so I really thought I'd love it...the "behind the scenes" helping people. I even had myself convinced that it was a way to have an even bigger impact on medicine then going to medical school

I was once told by people with PhD that if you are going to grad school, you must have one or two things that you are extremely passionate about and can go crazy about. I sense the whole "I thought..." indicates that you were never sure about undertaking what research you really wanted to do. That was your first mistake when you did not know for sure what kind of research you wanted to get into, and I'm not sure what research background you have, but going straight to biomedical science research without knowing how it is like.. not the best idea in the world.

As others said, you should quit and apply for different career path. I should caution you, however, that you need to think hard and clear for what is that you really want to do. Many people are attracted to medicine for the need to help other people, let it be from mission work or paramedic experience etc., but the biggest question is still: why medicine? Why not just stay as a paramedic? Those questions are something that adcoms will expect, and what you should answer for yourself as well. Simply wanting to be a doctor since when you were a kid and believing to be able to handle the workload for medical school route do not make a compelling story, no mater how you may personally look at it, especially given your GPA and dropping out of PhD program.

Personally, if medicine is your calling, you should drop out of PhD program, take MCAT if needed, and apply to DO schools. This would have highest chance of acceptance... Now, if you come and say I need MD, well..

 

[r1oid]

I agree with the above posts. Here's my opinion for what its worth.

1. Be sure you really want out of the program and this is not just a grad student blues issue. Everyone goes through some period of unhappiness in grad school.
2. I agree that if you do go out try and at least get a masters.
3. Make sure you have a firm grasp of what a MD's job and day to day work life really is like. Hospitalist, pcp, various MD specialisits, if you have some idea what kind of doctor you want to be then you need to at least have a long talk with someone who does it and if possible shadow that person to see for yourself their whole day. There is a lot of idealism->disillusionment from student to practitioner and you don't want to end up in a similar situation to this one in three years.
4. Write out a general timeline for prep->tests->apps->school->residency and a general life goals timeline. This is not to dissuade you but it is surprising how many people really don't know the time an location aspects of a med education.
5. Your GPA will keep you out of most MD programs, seriously consider DO as an option, I would not suggest the Caribbean for reasons often debated in other forums.
6. Assuming you do the appropriate test prep and get a reasonable score on the MCAT, you should also consider how you are going to sell yourself as a candidate. This may mean doing some more or different clinical experiences so you can sell to the adcoms that you are a mature and dedicated candidate.

Good luck