Racism in admissions process?? and Bill Maher

[Mr. H]

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Hey everyon, I just wanted to get an idea what you think about a pretty touchy subject. REflecting on the horrific events of Sep. 11, do you think people with a middle eastern or Muslim backround have a lower shot at medical school? I know admissions is supposed to be about what you 've accomplished, but it seems to me that since med school is such a crapshoot, that adcoms may associate "negativities" either unconciously, or conciously, with middle easterners, or Muslims. I know this is a touchy subject, but I'd just like to get your views on all of this. Well, time for my daily dose of Politically Incorrect, does anybody else here hate Bill Maher? But man, that show is fun to watch. peace

 

[Trek]

Bill Maher is the closest human to God, in my opinion. I remember i wrote him a letter last year saying that I wanted to get into his gig (bringing common sense to the airwaves) and if he could gimme some pointers. Didn't get a reply 🙁 I'd willingly put med school aside to intern with the dude- he's AMAZING. The ability to think on the fly like that is really rare and great to watch. 'Course, hard ass exclusionist right wingers probably think he's an idiot. I'd like to have his baby, tho. --Trek

 

[Mr. H]

HA. Yeah, I agree, Bill is pretty good at coming up with things on the fly, too bad most of it is COMING OUT OF HIS ASS!
peace

 

[none]

Is there data on Middle-Eastern admissions? I suppose it should be somewhere and we should be able to compare to last year when this year is over.

 

[Trek]

So maybe you've never seen the show. This guy knows his stuff, and if he doesn't, he admits it. Frankly this guy should be the icon for common sense for this millenium. --Trek

 

[gower]

I very much doubt that there will be bias against Muslims in admissions. Terrorists do not lie low by becoming premedical students and then going to medical school for cover only later to immolate themselves in suicidal attacks. Very inefficient use of resources.

There was a lot of bias--racial, ethnic, social class, religous, gender--in the past. That first began eroding in the early 1950s. I believe now that whatever residual biasses exist are individual, not institutional.

Selective admission with fixed class sizes cannot be reduced to accepting everyone by academic criteria alone without judgements of all kinds on the meaning of grades at the various colleges attended, differences in difficulty of course selections, and a host of other things. Another option is having open admission to medical schools for everyone and then a fine mesh filter that only the best can pass through. That was, and may be still common, in European medical schools. The necessity of this subsequent filter is that there are limited clinical resources to complete the training.

No matter how you slice it, judgements have to be made somewhere. All judgement calls of any kind are never, by the nature of the beast, inheritently accurate, infallible, and bias free.
We can but hope that the bias is not invidious and based on factors irrelevant to the study and practice of medicine.

 

[Mr. H]

Point taken

 

[Trek]

More importantly, gower, what do you think of Bill Maher?!?! 🙂 I can tell by your common sense and courteousness you're probably a fan :wink: --Trek

 

[CaliBoy]

I am of middle eastern /muslim background and have a very middle-eastern sounding name. Not that a sample size of 1 is indicative of anything, but I really have not noticed any discrimination in the admissions process. I've been to 10 interviews and have 4 acceptances so far. However, I will say that it is no coincidence that I am "randomly selected for a security check" EVERY SINGLE TIME I GET ON A PLANE. No exaggeration. I am not complaining about this, and I am glad they do have these checks. I just don't think the security checks are "random." Just my opinion..

 

[choker]

i am persian and my entire family is CONVINCED that i am being discriminated against in this process. i dont know if i subscribe to the same philosophy, but i HAVE noticed that the middle easterners in my school HAVE done considerably worse in the application process than others, particularly with schools that have non-secular traditions_ ie einstein, georgetown, etc. whatever, im still not shaving my facial hair for anyone.

but i personally think that with all the real victims to come of these events, if there is a little subsequent discrimination against myself and my kind, we have absolutely no right to complain_ i can name a many thousand people that got off much worse.

PS- bill maher is an opinionated idiot. i agree with him a lot, and i also disagree with him a lot, but i dont like how every show is just a public execution of some poor right-wing conservative (as misguided and wrong as he may be)
_ it's not fair how the unpopular guy on that
show never gets an opportunity to defend his position without getting pounced on by the 2 hard-core left wing liberals, a backstreet boy, and bill maher, himself. if they want to do the show right, they should have an IMPARTIAL host-moderator and let bill maher be a regular guest.

ps- i look VERY middle eastern and have a VERY middle eastern name, but of the dozen flights i've taken since sept, i have never been checked. the checks are much more for public confidence than for anything else. i hardly see how pulling out and checking an 80-year old korean woman flying with her family (yes this happened) can be anything but random.

if they begin to use their judgment or anything other than a completely randomized selection method, then human discretion will come into play, and that leads to discrimination and crappy service. but maybe it's because im from nyc, and everyone here can pass as a terrorist.