Rad Onc in The NEJM

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anybody recall this:

graph of rad onc in NEJM over time:

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Heart in NEJM over time:
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Immunotx in NEJM over time:
FArKEjG.jpg
 
So why as a specialty with as many md phds as we have do we have this hurdle? Pharma and money?
 

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heartisinradonc said:
Wow, my post was removed for being "racially charged." This site is soft!
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It’s not that it’s soft. It’s that America has changed in incredible ways in the last 10 years and speech is extremely controlled. On a privately owned forum with a extremely liberal leadership and clientele, the mob will get you fast. Be happy you didn’t post that on #radonc twitter under your real name. You’d be done for.

A prolific poster was banned for talking rationally and in a scientific way about masking and making reasonable arguments. What he said in 2020, in 2022, no sane person would disagree very strongly with. I still cannot understand it. He was, in the end, definitely not wrong and possibly right.

What you said - I talked with friends about it going to be taken down. Not “if”, but “when”. I think it was sh*tty and classist and not really funny, but racist? Using a name associated with a specific race to make a point is racial in nature, but racist? If you made the comment about increasing Indian-American representation in the Arts and said “no one cares if it’s Amit on screen or Andy, as long as he’s hot and a good actor”, the new world would call you racist for that, too. But, what about other actions like leading specific races to specific specialties that are undergoing dramatic shifts and turmoil - not only is that not racist, it’s considered anti-racist

But, here’s the other thing - racism is defined by the people in charge and the mob. If you use “Karen”, you clearly mean an annoying white, middle aged woman. But, that will not get you banned. Those are the breaks, friend.

Anyway, this post and account probably have an expiration date. Thanks Mods for keeping it up as long as it can stay up.
 
RealSimulD said:
It’s not that it’s soft. It’s that America has changed in incredible ways in the last 10 years and speech is extremely controlled. On a privately owned forum with a extremely liberal leadership and clientele, the mob will get you fast. Be happy you didn’t post that on #radonc twitter under your real name. You’d be done for.

A prolific poster was banned for talking rationally and in a scientific way about masking and making reasonable arguments. What he said in 2020, in 2022, no sane person would disagree very strongly with. I still cannot understand it. He was, in the end, definitely not wrong and possibly right.

What you said - I talked with friends about it going to be taken down. Not “if”, but “when”. I think it was sh*tty and classist and not really funny, but racist? Using a name associated with a specific race to make a point is racial in nature, but racist? If you made the comment about increasing Indian-American representation in the Arts and said “no one cares if it’s Amit on screen or Andy, as long as he’s hot and a good actor”, the new world would call you racist for that, too. But, what about other actions like leading specific races to specific specialties that are undergoing dramatic shifts and turmoil - not only is that not racist, it’s considered anti-racist

But, here’s the other thing - racism is defined by the people in charge and the mob. If you use “Karen”, you clearly mean an annoying white, middle aged woman. But, that will not get you banned. Those are the breaks, friend.

Anyway, this post and account probably have an expiration date. Thanks Mods for keeping it up as long as it can stay up.
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Thanks for the clarification. The intent wasn't humour or classism. More an indictment on the reality that an establishment cares more about what someone looks like than their actual qualifications. Terrifying. We might not have its as overtly here but positions here 100% go to left leaning, subservient personality types.
 
CurbYourExpectations said:
Nothing about the issues should be racially or gender focused. The issue is that the supply doesn't meet the demand. Bring all the races and genders possible into RadOnc, just make sure they all have decent jobs after 14 years of hard work. Anything negative about race or gender detracts from the good fight.
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Should we care about these things? Shouldn't it be about who is most qualified, most dedicated, most compassionate? I find it terrifying that myself or a family member could be treated by someone who has their position solely on account of what they look like and that we cannot question their qualifications. People should have every right to want to know a doctor's qualifications beforehand.
 
CurbYourExpectations said:
No one that is a leader in one of the longest educational pathways that has ever been established in human history (RadiationOncology in the US) should have people entering the field after 15 years or so of higher educational training thinking "oh no, i've been lied to, no going back now" or people attempting to enter thinking, "oh will I have a job?". Nothing to do with race, include every race and every ethnicity and gender, but don't screw people over after they've spent half of their life training to cure/palliate the (one of the) worst diseases to ever plague mankind. I am not sure we have the best leadership in this field (I know SDN is pretty sure we don't). What good leaders in history do we remember said, "yeah, we should keep doing what our subordinates think is wrong"?
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These are the same folks who think it is prudent to not focus on the absolutely integral role of RT as sole treatment or in integrated management of cancer and instead use its platform to promote far leftist ideology. Just look at medscape. 80% of articles are just mouthpieces for the current POTUS' policies. You should know that nobody in this profession is your friend. But when actual treatment and research is being manipulated by propagandists you know the field is irrevocable.
 
heartisinradonc said:
These are the same folks who think it is prudent to not focus on the absolutely integral role of RT as sole treatment or in integrated management of cancer and instead use its platform to promote far leftist ideology. Just look at medscape. 80% of articles are just mouthpieces for the current POTUS' policies. You should know that nobody in this profession is your friend. But when actual treatment and research is being manipulated by propagandists you know the field is irrevocable.
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Can't be any worse than the last :clown: talking to us about injecting disinfectant and windmills causing cancer. That being said, no politics on this forum per the mods so you should end that right here.
 
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SDN's policies include to create an inclusive and diverse environment for medical training and discussion.

We also want to create a platform for vigorous discussion.

We have kept up the "Dare you to reply" thread for some time, which has openly questioned what is meant by and the limits of inclusion and diversity.

The particular post I deleted was reported by a long-time SDN rad onc poster as being over the line, and moderators within and outside of the rad onc forum agreed. There is always a gray area. We appreciate your support in allowing us to support open discussion but make decisions to moderate from time to time.

Additionally, SDN is not interested in mask-denier discussions. This is a sitewide policy that we follow.

We are open to criticism of our moderation. However, continued criticism of SDN will derail this thread that I think we are all interested in. If you want to discuss further about moderation and SDN policies, please PM me and/or evilbooya.
 
It was me. I reported it. I reported it not only because it was a stupid and sh*tty thing to say, but because it obviously would give ammunition to the other side of this whole radonc coin who wants to paint us with certain brushes.

Thanks, Neuronix, for doing the right thing, and thanks for all your work over the years on this board.
 
CurbYourExpectations said:
Didn't see your initial post and my post was more of a broad statement.

But, my point is I don't think how someone looks should even be a conversation. Should just be someone who will be good at the job. Everyone has to pass the same boards and jump through the same hoops. The issue isn't who is coming in, the issue is those on their way out who don't care about the people who are coming in.
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The point of the article starting the thread is that how someone looks in clinical academic faculty and leadership positions is not reflective of the population. The rationale of why this is a bad thing is vague and hand wavy, but a well known bad thing. And any argument contra is a reason for censoring or cancellation. Just like arguing about masks on SDN. 🤐
 
Politics and rad onc economics discussions go together like cocaine and waffles. Like chinese food and chocolate puddin'. Like skateboardin' and freeway ramps. Like tuna fish and cigarettes. Like pigs and swimmin'. Easter mornin' and Lyme disease. Suits of armor and electrical storms. Campin' trips and headlights. Square dancin' and handguns. Right?
 
TheWallnerus said:
Politics and rad onc economics discussions go together like cocaine and waffles. Like chinese food and chocolate puddin'. Like skateboardin' and freeway ramps. Like tuna fish and cigarettes. Like pigs and swimmin'. Easter mornin' and Lyme disease. Suits of armor and electrical storms. Campin' trips and headlights. Square dancin' and handguns. Right?
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tuna fish and cigarettes? this is too specific to not be the result of experience.
 
TheWallnerus said:
Politics and rad onc economics discussions go together like cocaine and waffles. Like chinese food and chocolate puddin'. Like skateboardin' and freeway ramps. Like tuna fish and cigarettes. Like pigs and swimmin'. Easter mornin' and Lyme disease. Suits of armor and electrical storms. Campin' trips and headlights. Square dancin' and handguns. Right?
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It's crazy. I've released both an 80's hair rock album called Cocaine and Waffles and an indie folk album called Campin' Trips and Headlights.

They were both terrible.
 
OTN said:
It was me. I reported it. I reported it not only because it was a stupid and sh*tty thing to say, but because it obviously would give ammunition to the other side of this whole radonc coin who wants to paint us with certain brushes.

Thanks, Neuronix, for doing the right thing, and thanks for all your work over the years on this board.
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It was the right thing to do. I get the anti-censorship stance, but it was indeed a sh*tty and demeaning thing to say. Cheapened this board; which is already on the edge at times.
 
OTN said:
It was me. I reported it. I reported it not only because it was a stupid and sh*tty thing to say, but because it obviously would give ammunition to the other side of this whole radonc coin who wants to paint us with certain brushes.

Thanks, Neuronix, for doing the right thing, and thanks for all your work over the years on this board.
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I do agree with this. It was garbage comment and does put entire community at risk. You and mods right about that. If the world wasn't the way it was, especially "#radonc", it could have been left up.

But, @OTN - it is definitely a really slippery slope, isn't it? I mean they are literally picking and choosing what races are protected and what are not. That worries me.
 
CurbYourExpectations said:
I can understand how it can be frustrating to some, a meritocracy would be the most ideal in a perfect world. The graphs will likely trend higher and higher. Currently there are more females than males in medical school I believe. There are less white people in medical school than the average population. It's also true is that the way people looked has probably kept them from getting a leadership position and it's happened within our life times and may have happened yesterday.
Just was a personal opinion and I acknowledge that it is likely biased and could be considered unfair by others that have a less culturally popular opinion.
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Pendulum has swung to a point that definitely the way people look (and/or think) has kept them from getting leadership positions. Just the looks are different. Eg, these days at more than a few university systems a DIE statement is required, and only certain answers will get you through the door or keep you in the room. Maybe one day the pendulum will swing back. In any case not sure meritocracy can survive move to pass/fail or elimination of standardized exams.
 

temujim said:
Pendulum has swung to a point that definitely the way people look (and/or think) has kept them from getting leadership positions. Just the looks are different. Eg, these days at more than a few university systems a DIE statement is required, and only certain answers will get you through the door or keep you in the room. Maybe one day the pendulum will swing back. In any case not sure meritocracy can survive move to pass/fail or elimination of standardized exams.
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Those statements are completely ridiculous and inherently political/exclusionary by definition. If I see such a requirement for a position it is a hard pass for me. I'm sure this is something that is only seen at "academic" institutions. The Virginia Commonwealth University requires this for the job they have been posting around. I've also seen this required for University of California positions as well. It is hard to believe it is even legal to ask something like that for what is basically a government job.
 
fiji128 said:



Those statements are completely ridiculous and inherently political/exclusionary by definition. If I see such a requirement for a position it is a hard pass for me. I'm sure this is something that is only seen at "academic" institutions. The Virginia Commonwealth University requires this for the job they have been posting around. I've also seen this required for University of California positions as well. It is hard to believe it is even legal to ask something like that for what is basically a government job.
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heartisinradonc said:
OK mate. You sound like a ton of fun on a Saturday night.
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He's got a good point, people in the academic rad onc bubble on Twitter talk a lot of **** about the rad onc SDN forum. No need to help them and give them the ammo, that being said, I'd probably leave it up there as a 1A supporter myself. If you had used your real alias on Twitter you would have been pwned, dude. We get what you were trying to say, but some would interpret it as crass
 
medgator said:
He's got a good point, people in the academic rad onc bubble on Twitter talk a lot of **** about the rad onc SDN forum. No need to help them and give them the ammo, that being said, I'd probably leave it up there as a 1A supporter myself. If you had used your real alias on Twitter you would have been pwned, dude. We get what you were trying to say, but some would interpret it as crass
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Yeah it was a crass comment but unfortunately that is the only way to respond to crass articles and crass movements. Does anyone here think (I work regional/rural) a patient with cancer will prefer an RO because they are a minority? Why are respected journals even publishing this garbage? It is disgusting. Why is Medcape, for example, so fixated on removing the breast cancer symposium from Texas, but repeadedtly has articles promoting hormonal blockers in children? And why is only one perspective on the matter allowed?
 
“The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars.”

RIP heartisinradonc. Your ephemeral flame burned fast and bright. May you enjoy your time in the SDN afterlife amongst KHE88 and Turaco. May you walk amongst us once more when you get access to a new IP address.
 
radmonckey said:
“The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars.”

RIP heartisinradonc. Your ephemeral flame burned fast and bright. May you enjoy your time in the SDN afterlife amongst KHE88 and Turaco. May you walk amongst us once more when you get access to a new IP address.
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I forgot about turaco. I'll forget heartisinradonc as well...
 
radmonckey said:
“The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars.”

RIP heartisinradonc. Your ephemeral flame burned fast and bright. May you enjoy your time in the SDN afterlife amongst KHE88 and Turaco. May you walk amongst us once more when you get access to a new IP address.
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Ray D. Ayshun said:
I forgot about turaco. I'll forget heartisinradonc as well...
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Wasn't he Australian. If so, they tend to be much more, let us say, politically incorrect there (on CERTAIN things) in my experience, compared to America.
 
jondunn said:
He sounded like he was trying to hard to come across as Australian

Guy was a total scam artist
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Are you suggesting that KHE put on a fake Australian accent ? If so, that was incredible and Bravo
 
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn’t exist
 
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