random epiphany. In need of advice

[feet2017]

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I currently am in my senior year of undergraduate and I have already been accepted into a DPM program at western and will be entering this fall. My random epiphany was that I realized it was possible for me to get accepted into a low tier DO school. I have made a threat on WAMC but I will post my stats hear also

2 years of research 1 in a bio lab and another for education. did not publish anything
~100 hours of volunteering at hospital
~40 hours at an afterschool program for underprivileged kids.
worked as a temp worker at an organic farm for pumpkin season
currently tutoring through a private company
Did a summer internship for fun at a car company
extremely strong upward gpa trend.
I go to a mid tier UC
26 on MCAT 8V 8P 10B
cum gpa: 3.333
sci gpa: 3.351

I hope this doesn't count as a double post because I am not really asking about my chances in this thread. I wanted to know what everyone's opinions in regards to these newly opened DO schools. I know everyone is going to say you need to shadow to see what you like to do,but for D.O. school you don't really actually know what kind of physician you will become so it makes shadowing a little bit tough.
I think I am starting to freak out a little because I have basically one quarter of school left and I am about to make one of the largest commitments of my life soon.

 

[calvinhobbes]

Try to defer if you can (have a good reason to tell them).
Apply to DO this year and see what happens!

Good luck.

 

[MedPR]

Shadowing matters to adcoms so it should matter to you. Your stats are good enough for many DO schools including not so new ones.

Don't go DO just because physicians are more respected and prestigious than DPMs though. If you actually want to be a DPM you should go that route.

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[feet2017]

Did most of you go into D.O. school knowing exactly what kind of physician you wanted to be or did you just go with an open mind and decide during clinical rotations? For me at least it kind of scares me not knowing what kind of doctor I will be, also I think it would be kind of heart breaking to not match into a certain speciality that you wanted to become. does anyone else feel this way?

Everyone says get a good g.p.a. and smash the boards, but realistically you are entering medical school where some of the most brilliant minds come together and compete against each other.

 

[MedPR]

Did most of you go into D.O. school knowing exactly what kind of physician you wanted to be or did you just go with an open mind and decide during clinical rotations? For me at least it kind of scares me not knowing what kind of doctor I will be, also I think it would be kind of heart breaking to not match into a certain speciality that you wanted to become. does anyone else feel this way?

Everyone says get a good g.p.a. and smash the boards, but realistically you are entering medical school where some of the most brilliant minds come together and compete against each other.

Alot of premeds have an idea of what they want to do. Most understand that they'll likely change their mind.

It's better than being locked into feet from day 1.

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[FrkyBgStok]

i know that i want to be a physician. looking now i can think of a number of specialties that seem cool. i can picture myself happy as a neurosurgeon, a pediatrician, and many things in between. And without hesitation, I can say I would not be happy being a podiatrist. Going to DMU I take a lot of classes with other podiatrists and 98% of them say that after shadowing physicians of various specialties and podiatrists, they felt podiatry was better for them and are pumped to be going to podiatry school. if you are having doubts about podiatry, hold off. if you spend the rest of your life in a "what could have been" mentality, it is going to ruin you in many ways. so take the time to figure it out if you are having second thoughts.

 

[racerwad]

i know that i want to be a physician. looking now i can think of a number of specialties that seem cool. i can picture myself happy as a neurosurgeon, a pediatrician, and many things in between. And without hesitation, I can say I would not be happy being a podiatrist. Going to DMU I take a lot of classes with other podiatrists and 98% of them say that after shadowing physicians of various specialties and podiatrists, they felt podiatry was better for them and are pumped to be going to podiatry school. if you are having doubts about podiatry, hold off. if you spend the rest of your life in a "what could have been" mentality, it is going to ruin you in many ways. so take the time to figure it out if you are having second thoughts.

So true 👍

Sometimes, it's easier to know what you don't want to do than to know exactly what you do want to do. Being a physician allows a lot more latitude as others have pointed out. You are right that this is a big decision and you should approach it carefully.

I started med school knowing that I want to be a doctor and I'm sure I know what I want to specialize in. However, I'm open to changing my mind and I'm glad I have that option if it comes down to it.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Did most of you go into D.O. school knowing exactly what kind of physician you wanted to be or did you just go with an open mind and decide during clinical rotations? For me at least it kind of scares me not knowing what kind of doctor I will be, also I think it would be kind of heart breaking to not match into a certain speciality that you wanted to become. does anyone else feel this way?

Everyone says get a good g.p.a. and smash the boards, but realistically you are entering medical school where some of the most brilliant minds come together and compete against each other.

Nobody really knows what residency they will end up in. Nor should you. I think you are confusing the DO degree with residency specialty. You may have some idea of what you want to do, i.e. podiatry which could transpire into ortho. However, you may get on an ortho rotation and totally hate it. Sure you go to medical school with really smart people but odds are you are NOT competing against them for a residency even if a individual is looking at the same specialty not likely will they go to the same residency as you.

I went into medical school thinking I would be a surgeon. I did not match and had to come up with an alternate plan. I was not devastated as you assume you would be. I do not regret not being a surgeon and am happy being the best doctor I can be.

 

[feet2017]

thanks for the advice. I am going to shadow some D.O.'s and see how I feel about it. I'll see what advice they have as well.

Financially I wanted to see what everyone's opinions are. If I do go to pod school I will be commuting from home which is about a 15 minute drive and will save me tons of money. Tuition is about 40k a year so in total 160k. Income wise I will be comfy obviously not making as much money as other certain medical specialities. If I go to D.O. school however I will probably be close to at least 70k more in debt if not more. any thoughts?

 

[MedPR]

thanks for the advice. I am going to shadow some D.O.'s and see how I feel about it. I'll see what advice they have as well.

Financially I wanted to see what everyone's opinions are. If I do go to pod school I will be commuting from home which is about a 15 minute drive and will save me tons of money. Tuition is about 40k a year so in total 160k. Income wise I will be comfy obviously not making as much money as other certain medical specialities. If I go to D.O. school however I will probably be close to at least 70k more in debt if not more. any thoughts?

The additional debt is worth it if you actually want to be a physician and not a DPM. Everyone here wants to be (or already is) a physician.

 

[feet2017]

The additional debt is worth it if you actually want to be a physician and not a DPM. Everyone here wants to be (or already is) a physician.

I really don't want to start the argument of whether a Podiatrist is considered a physician or not. I know you are trying to give me advice. From what I have seen and from my uncle who is a "Physician" has nothing but good things to say about Podiatry. he is the one that actually told me to look into being one. The podiatrist I shadowed when he was changing into scrubs for surgery, went into a room that said "physician locker's". Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and thank you for yours.

I am just considering D.O. because it allows a lot more wiggle room. But I've noticed you could still possible shoot yourself in the foot, by not matching into a certain residency or from what I read wanting to do certain specialties that are anti-D.O.

 

[feet2017]

Try to defer if you can (have a good reason to tell them).
Apply to DO this year and see what happens!

Good luck.

I probably will just end up doing this 👍

 

[feet2017]

Nobody really knows what residency they will end up in. Nor should you. I think you are confusing the DO degree with residency specialty. You may have some idea of what you want to do, i.e. podiatry which could transpire into ortho. However, you may get on an ortho rotation and totally hate it. Sure you go to medical school with really smart people but odds are you are NOT competing against them for a residency even if a individual is looking at the same specialty not likely will they go to the same residency as you.

I went into medical school thinking I would be a surgeon. I did not match and had to come up with an alternate plan. I was not devastated as you assume you would be. I do not regret not being a surgeon and am happy being the best doctor I can be.

How are you not competing against others for a certain residency spot? From my understanding there are limited spots and if you do not match you have to do the scramble and most likely end up as a primary care physician. nothing against PCPs.

 

[feet2017]

After doing some research and reading some things with the merging of the ACGME and AOA residencies (I am not sure if these acronyms are correct) do you guys think that DO's will get pushed out of the more competitive specialties? (i.e. AOA ortho)

 

[MedPR]

I really don't want to start the argument of whether a Podiatrist is considered a physician or not. I know you are trying to give me advice. From what I have seen and from my uncle who is a "Physician" has nothing but good things to say about Podiatry. he is the one that actually told me to look into being one. The podiatrist I shadowed when he was changing into scrubs for surgery, went into a room that said "physician locker's". Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and thank you for yours.

I am just considering D.O. because it allows a lot more wiggle room. But I've noticed you could still possible shoot yourself in the foot, by not matching into a certain residency or from what I read wanting to do certain specialties that are anti-D.O.

I wasn't necessarily trying to point out that DPMs aren't physicians. But they certainly aren't. They're doctors just PhDs and DPTs are doctors. None are physicians. Imo

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[feet2017]

I wasn't necessarily trying to point out that DPMs aren't physicians. But they certainly aren't. They're doctors just PhDs and DPTs are doctors. None are physicians. Imo

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I get where you are coming from. You and many insurance providers have the same opinion 👍

 

[GypsyHummus]

Get into a DO school. If you like the feet, you can still do podiatry as a DO, but just as an ortho foot doctor.

Nova has a DPM/DO program you might wanna look into

 

[cabinbuilder]

How are you not competing against others for a certain residency spot? From my understanding there are limited spots and if you do not match you have to do the scramble and most likely end up as a primary care physician. nothing against PCPs.

You are misinterpreting what I said. Yes you are competing against others for residency. In your OP you made it sound like you were competing against those smartest folks in your medical school class. My point was most student in your class will not be applying to resdiency where you will be. You are over thinking. Very few students end up in the scramble - there were 3 in my class of 250 students.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Get into a DO school. If you like the feet, you can still do podiatry as a DO, but just as an ortho foot doctor.

This is not true. I took a podiatry rotation as an FP resident in order to better assist my diabetic patients with foot care in the rural setting. I do nail trimming, callus trimming, paronychia draining, wart removal, plantar fasciitis injections, take nails off all the time.

 

[feet2017]

You are misinterpreting what I said. Yes you are competing against others for residency. In your OP you made it sound like you were competing against those smartest folks in your medical school class. My point was most student in your class will not be applying to resdiency where you will be. You are over thinking. Very few students end up in the scramble - there were 3 in my class of 250 students.

Thanks for all your help. I contacted some D.O.s and we will see how that goes. I am kind of leaning towards staying with podiatry. I get to practice earlier, have less debt, and stay in socal. I am interested in surgery after shadowing in the O.R. and I feel as though with D.O. school I am going to have to excel in order to consider doing surgery. my uncle who is an internal medicine M.D. also just tells me to do podiatry he thinks it is a good cash business and all the podiatrist he knows are very happy. I know when you go to school you aren't going to live there or practice there but many of the D.O. schools are in really rural areas and I find that kind of depressing LOL (lived in socal my entire life). I interviewed at DMU so I have an idea of the area most D.O. schools are at. It would be great if I got into western for their D.O. program, but that would be more of a long shot in comparison to WCU, ACOM, etc.

my end goal is to be able to help people and have a comfy life.

 

[racerwad]

Thanks for all your help. I contacted some D.O.s and we will see how that goes. I am kind of leaning towards staying with podiatry. I get to practice earlier, have less debt, and stay in socal. I am interested in surgery after shadowing in the O.R. and I feel as though with D.O. school I am going to have to excel in order to consider doing surgery. my uncle who is an internal medicine M.D. also just tells me to do podiatry he thinks it is a good cash business and all the podiatrist he knows are very happy. I know when you go to school you aren't going to live there or practice there but many of the D.O. schools are in really rural areas and I find that kind of depressing LOL (lived in socal my entire life). I interviewed at DMU so I have an idea of the area most D.O. schools are at. It would be great if I got into western for their D.O. program, but that would be more of a long shot in comparison to WCU, ACOM, etc.

my end goal is to be able to help people and have a comfy life.

Well heaven forbid you do your best!

 

[MedPR]

I am interested in surgery after shadowing in the O.R. and I feel as though with D.O. school I am going to have to excel in order to consider doing surgery.

Imo these are the types of statements that separate MD/DO from the other health professions. Not that I'm putting the others down. I'm just saying that this route isn't for everyone.

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[racerwad]

Imo these are the types of statements that separate MD/DO from the other health professions. Not that I'm putting the others down. I'm just saying that this route isn't for everyone.

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👍 Exactly. Wanting to excel should be your motivation, not something that deters you.

 

[feet2017]

Imo these are the types of statements that separate MD/DO from the other health professions. Not that I'm putting the others down. I'm just saying that this route isn't for everyone.

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idk what you mean by that but....I don't plan on being pure surgical, that in my opinion is the nice thing about podiatry. you see patients in the office 4-5 times a week and surgery 1-2 days a week. I think podiatry is similar to urology/ent but obviously much lower pay..mix of surgery/medicine vs ortho/plastics mostly if not pure surgical.

not to say this is the norm for podiatrist, but the person I shadowed actually got a job as chief surgeon for a kaiser foot and ankle department. He wasn't much of a fan of palliative care, so I guess it is possible to be 100% reconstruction/trauma but he is an outlier in the podiatry world from my understanding.

 

[feet2017]

👍 Exactly. Wanting to excel should be your motivation, not something that deters you.

I know what you mean, but from looking at the 2012 D.O. match list there is a difference between wanting and actually getting.

 

[MedPR]

idk what you mean by that but....I don't plan on being pure surgical, that in my opinion is the nice thing about podiatry. you see patients in the office 4-5 times a week and surgery 1-2 days a week. I think podiatry is similar to urology/ent but obviously much lower pay..mix of surgery/medicine vs ortho/plastics mostly if not pure surgical.

not to say this is the norm for podiatrist, but the person I shadowed actually got a job as chief surgeon for a kaiser foot and ankle department. He wasn't much of a fan of palliative care, so I guess it is possible to be 100% reconstruction/trauma but he is an outlier in the podiatry world from my understanding.

What I mean is doing your best and excelling is something most successful premeds have a passion for.

Idk what you've heard about surg, but almost all of them spend more time in clinic than in the OR.

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[feet2017]

What I mean is doing your best and excelling is something most successful premeds have a passion for.

Idk what you've heard about surg, but almost all of them spend more time in clinic than in the OR.

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That is good to know, I am still in undergrad so forgive me if some of my information is incorrect. But my main point is that even with motivation and excelling there is reality. for argument sake http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2012prgstats.html I am sure you have seen this.

 

[MedPR]

That is good to know, I am still in undergrad so forgive me if some of my information is incorrect. But my main point is that even with motivation and excelling there is reality. for argument sake http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2012prgstats.html I am sure you have seen this.

Of course it's competitive. That's what makes it even more appealing to me. That's exactly my point.

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[GypsyHummus]

This is not true. I took a podiatry rotation as an FP resident in order to better assist my diabetic patients with foot care in the rural setting. I do nail trimming, callus trimming, paronychia draining, wart removal, plantar fasciitis injections, take nails off all the time.

Well there you go, you get the best of both worlds if you go to DO school.

 

[racerwad]

I know what you mean, but from looking at the 2012 D.O. match list there is a difference between wanting and actually getting.

Who's match list are you referring to and what exactly do you mean? Just because everyone isn't doing neuro at hopkins doesn't mean they're settling.

 

[feet2017]

Who's match list are you referring to and what exactly do you mean? Just because everyone isn't doing neuro at hopkins doesn't mean they're settling.

http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2012prgstats.html

I wasn't talking about the prestige of the programs, but just in general matching into the specialty.

 

[racerwad]

http://www.natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2012prgstats.html

I wasn't talking about the prestige of the programs, but just in general matching into the specialty.

I still don't get what you're alluding to? Of course no one is guaranteed their residency of choice, but the opportunity is there and the need to excel to accomplish that goal is part of the process. It's something you should aspire to, not avoid.

 

[feet2017]

I still don't get what you're alluding to? Of course no one is guaranteed their residency of choice, but the opportunity is there and the need to excel to accomplish that goal is part of the process. It's something you should aspire to, not avoid.

this is what I mean and by doing these calculations is by no means an insult.

UROLOGICAL SURGERY: 20/1524 1.31%
OTOLARYN & FACIAL PLASTIC SURG: 18/1524 1.18%
DIAGNOSTIC RADIOLOGY: 25/1524 1.57%
GENERAL SURGERY: 108/1524 7.09%
FAMILY PRACTICE: 433/1524 28.4%
INTERNAL MEDICINE: 369/1524 24.2%

Yes I know that surgery is not for everyone, but I am the type of person to calculate his future and I am not much of a risk taker. Also to mention I am sure all fields of medicine are equally rewarding.

 

[HalfListic]

this is what I mean and by doing these calculations is by no means an insult.

UROLOGICAL SURGERY: 20/1524 1.31%
OTOLARYN & FACIAL PLASTIC SURG: 18/1524 1.18%
DIAGNOSTIC RADIOLOGY: 25/1524 1.57%
GENERAL SURGERY: 108/1524 7.09%
FAMILY PRACTICE: 433/1524 28.4%
INTERNAL MEDICINE: 369/1524 24.2%

Yes I know that surgery is not for everyone, but I am the type of person to calculate his future and I am not much of a risk taker. Also to mention I am sure all fields of medicine are equally rewarding.

you have to know how to assess numbers, as well as yourself, to really understand the risk involved.

Those are just percentages and have little to do with the chances of matching in any certain area.

 

[MedPR]

It's not necessarily about taking risks. It's about proving that you're better than settling for something safe. That's me though and I know not everyone is the same.

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[feet2017]

you have to know how to assess numbers, as well as yourself, to really understand the risk involved.

Those are just percentages and have little to do with the chances of matching in any certain area.

yeah I understand that there is a lot more to matching that just numbers, there is research, networking, interpersonal skills, etc. It just something I will take into consideration. I am seeing if I can even defer a year, so we will see how everything plays out.

 

[HalfListic]

It's not necessarily about taking risks. It's about proving that you're better than settling for something safe. That's me though and I know not everyone is the same.

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👍

and/or motivated to pursue something that will require more. Its not for everyone, of course

 

[feet2017]

It's not necessarily about taking risks. It's about proving that you're better than settling for something safe. That's me though and I know not everyone is the same.

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wise words 👍

to be honest I could probably get rejected from all D.O. schools so maybe i should try applying when the cycle opens in June to even have to think about any of this stuff.

 

[racerwad]

yeah I understand that there is a lot more to matching that just numbers, there is research, networking, interpersonal skills, etc. It just something I will take into consideration. I am seeing if I can even defer a year, so we will see how everything plays out.

I still don't see what you're getting at.

Are you saying that you don't want to go to medical school because it's hard and you're afraid that you might not get to do something because the chances are slim? Life is hard, man. How are going to achieve your best if you're always just playing it safe?

HTFU.

 

[feet2017]

I still don't see what you're getting at.

Are you saying that you don't want to go to medical school because it's hard and you're afraid that you might not get to do something because the chances are slim? Life is hard, man. How are going to achieve your best if you're always just playing it safe?

HTFU.

Best advice I have gotten so far

in a nutshell pretty much. I am trying to see in the future what i would regret more.
1. if I went to podiatry school and was like what if
2. i went to DO school and got stuck in a speciality that wasnt my #1 choice

sure I would probably be happy both ways because i am still helping people and making a decent salary.

 

[racerwad]

Best advice I have gotten so far

in a nutshell pretty much. I am trying to see in the future what i would regret more.
1. if I went to podiatry school and was like what if
2. i went to DO school and got stuck in a speciality that wasnt my #1 choice

sure I would probably be happy both ways because i am still helping people and making a decent salary.

If you went to medical school, the chances are very high that you won't match in the specialty you want right now. But, the chances are also just as high that you won't want whatever specialty you want right now. Things change, we grow and mature, perspectives lengthen over time, etc, etc. At least with medical school, if it turns out you wanted to do pathology or derm or something, you would have that option. Things are a little more focused in podiatry school and for some students, that's exactly what they want.

 

[feet2017]

But really thanks for everyone's opinions and advice. I really appreciate the help of the SDN community.

 

[feet2017]

If you went to medical school, the chances are very high that you won't match in the specialty you want right now. But, the chances are also just as high that you won't want whatever specialty you want right now. Things change, we grow and mature, perspectives lengthen over time, etc, etc. At least with medical school, if it turns out you wanted to do pathology or derm or something, you would have that option. Things are a little more focused in podiatry school and for some students, that's exactly what they want.

👍

 

[cabinbuilder]

What I mean is doing your best and excelling is something most successful premeds have a passion for.

Idk what you've heard about surg, but almost all of them spend more time in clinic than in the OR.

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This is soo true. Surgery is 2/3 clinic 1/3 OR time. Same with urology.

 

[cabinbuilder]

I know when you go to school you aren't going to live there or practice there but many of the D.O. schools are in really rural areas and I find that kind of depressing LOL (lived in socal my entire life). I interviewed at DMU so I have an idea of the area most D.O. schools are at. It would be great if I got into western for their D.O. program, but that would be more of a long shot in comparison to WCU, ACOM, etc.

my end goal is to be able to help people and have a comfy life.

So go to NYCOM right in the middle of Harlem. Or the school in Nevada 10 miles from Vegas. Knock yourself out on that. You haven't done very much homework then. There are plenty of schools that are not rural.

All of us who are physicians do it to help the public and I can say my life is very super comfortable.

 

[MedPR]

Idk where NYCOM is but Touro is in Harlem too.

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[NontradCA]

Idk where NYCOM is but Touro is in Harlem too.

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NYCOM is in Long Island, and it's sorta the rural part...but public transportation in NY is very user friendly.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Best advice I have gotten so far

in a nutshell pretty much. I am trying to see in the future what i would regret more.
1. if I went to podiatry school and was like what if
2. i went to DO school and got stuck in a speciality that wasnt my #1 choice

sure I would probably be happy both ways because i am still helping people and making a decent salary.

This is akin to being afraid to get married because you might end up with a divorce 4 years later due to irreconciliable differences and things just don't pan out like you envision. However, you might end up with a few kids along the way that make the whole journey worth it even if the original imagined future never occurred.

 

[NontradCA]

This is akin to being afraid to get married because you might end up with a divorce 4 years later due to irreconciliable differences and things just don't pan out like you envision. However, you might end up with a few kids along the way that make the whole journey worth it even if the original imagined future never occurred.

Actually you left out the part of child support (student loans) and the vast amount of parenting (physician hours) that go along with it.

 

[cabinbuilder]

NYCOM is in Long Island, and it's sorta the rural part...but public transportation in NY is very user friendly.

Are you so serious? I have been there, nothing rural about it in my book.