rank list

[Chocolateagar04]

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Hey,
I am a DO student doing the MD match only.

I am going on 7 interviews but realistically only going to rank like 5 due to progra,/location desirability. I'd rather not match amd do a prelim or research year than be somewhere I dont want to be for four years heading into my 30s.

I have looked at the nrmp data showing that us grads rank around 9 places have a near 100% match rate.

I was wondering what am I considered as a DO. There are ppl who like to say we are US Grads but idk if programs really look at us this way or more like group us with Carrib students that are American citizens.

Also, am I ranking way too few places? Some one told me as a DO I'd get in my top 3 but I doubt that has any validity.

Any advice or stories would help.

 

[maddog2020]

If you look at the stats closely for US grads, the ones that did not match ranked an average of 3.5 programs while those that matched ranked 7-9 programs. It is a bit misleading since weak candidates may have only recieved 3-4 interview invitations. However, the biggest mistake applicants make is ranking too few programs. You do not want to be unmatched so don't leave programs off your list unless you would rather not go to residency. You will probably not get a better program in the scramble (excuse me, the supplemental match SOAP)

 

[Septo Shock]

NRMP actually has DOs listed under Independent Applicants. However the DOs I talked to who matched last yr (n=4) all said they matched within their top 3. It's so hard to get data from DO applicants since there's so few of us going into neuro each yr.

 

[Chocolateagar04]

Thanks,

Yeah the stats are a bit confusing. I think the average matched independent applicant ranked only 4 or something whereas the average USMD was 7-9. I thought it would be the opposite.

I have heard stories of other DO students ranking only 4 and matching at the number 1 or 2. I just wanted to know if there were indeed stories of USMDs or USDOs that either didn't match at all (and how many they ranked) or of applicants that matched at their 4th best place.

Also does anyone know why programs prefer US GRADS so much? Does it have something to do with funding/loyalty? And why is the match algorithm so confusing? It seems liek it should be a straight up applicant rank vs. program rank and then go from there. It doesnt seem like it should be so complicated. I know people say you should rank where you wanna go first but I feel like ranking where you think you'll get in will and hopefully dont mind going would assure you that spot rather than going for what you like and having someone who ranked your backup much higher than you getting that spot.

I know alot of this was off topic but these were just some thoughts i had.

 

[Chocolateagar04]

Bump.

As a DO student should I feel comfortable matching in my top 3 choices?

 

[typhoonegator]

As always, it depends on where you are trying to match. If you are not a great applicant and pick three top programs, then MD or DO, you might not match in your top 3. As a result, the question is difficult if not impossible to answer. I know you're looking for some affirmation, but I don't want to misinform or falsely reassure you. Most people match pretty well in neurology, but there are people that have a hard time for many reasons, be it geographical restrictions, abrasive personalities, a disconnect between fantasy and reality, etc.

Regarding your previous question, US grads are preferred by many programs for many reasons. They usually don't need Visas, which can be a very big deal. They have a relatively uniform level of education. Almost all speak English as a first language. That said, I went to a very highly-regarded residency and we had a few non-US grads. They went to prestigious medical schools in England or Germany or the like. If you are a non-US grad and are worth it, programs will still bend over backwards for you.

 

[Chocolateagar04]

Thanks for the reply. As far as being competitive enough would it be fair to sy that if they invited u for an interview they already think you are a qualified candidate? So even if one was to rank prestigious places if they were interviewed there it wouldn't necessarily be a reach?

Also I feel like these interviews are almost useless and more of a formality. It seems as though they already know kind of where you stand, try to address red flags if any and just a bunch of small talk. I wonder how much they really factor in the interview besides just weeding out weirdos or bad fits?

 

[typhoonegator]

Thanks for the reply. As far as being competitive enough would it be fair to sy that if they invited u for an interview they already think you are a qualified candidate? So even if one was to rank prestigious places if they were interviewed there it wouldn't necessarily be a reach?

Also I feel like these interviews are almost useless and more of a formality. It seems as though they already know kind of where you stand, try to address red flags if any and just a bunch of small talk. I wonder how much they really factor in the interview besides just weeding out weirdos or bad fits?

Do not underestimate the importance of the interview. While it may seem like most programs just lob softballs at you, the impression they take away can be critically important to your ranking. Take it from me, the informal rank list used to determine who gets interviews is dramatically altered after the interviews have occurred. Some (many) programs interview many applicants that are not on their short list after the first round, just because some of those "top" applicants will turn out to be weird or just not a good fit. Everyone wants to fill their program, so they also want to be sure they've interviewed enough people to fill even in a doomsday scenario.

So please don't feel like you're a shoo-in for any program you interviewed at where you felt like you didn't blow the interview. Yes, if they interviewed you they probably could realistically see you in their residency, but you could be in everyone's bottom 50% that they interviewed, and in that setting could potentially miss out on your top 3.

Do I think that is going to happen? Probably not. But you really should rank every program that you would even consider going to. Doing a prelim year and then trying to find a categorical spot is an entirely different kettle of fish than the standard match, and I would hate to see you regret your decision later on.

This is just my opinion, so please feel free to disagree. I'm not trying to make you doubt yourself, and I'm just another voice on the internet. But I have been around this block a time or two.

 

[Chocolateagar04]

Do not underestimate the importance of the interview. While it may seem like most programs just lob softballs at you, the impression they take away can be critically important to your ranking. Take it from me, the informal rank list used to determine who gets interviews is dramatically altered after the interviews have occurred. Some (many) programs interview many applicants that are not on their short list after the first round, just because some of those "top" applicants will turn out to be weird or just not a good fit. Everyone wants to fill their program, so they also want to be sure they've interviewed enough people to fill even in a doomsday scenario.

So please don't feel like you're a shoo-in for any program you interviewed at where you felt like you didn't blow the interview. Yes, if they interviewed you they probably could realistically see you in their residency, but you could be in everyone's bottom 50% that they interviewed, and in that setting could potentially miss out on your top 3.

Do I think that is going to happen? Probably not. But you really should rank every program that you would even consider going to. Doing a prelim year and then trying to find a categorical spot is an entirely different kettle of fish than the standard match, and I would hate to see you regret your decision later on.

This is just my opinion, so please feel free to disagree. I'm not trying to make you doubt yourself, and I'm just another voice on the internet. But I have been around this block a time or two.

Hey,

Thanks again. You seem to be very knowledgable on this matter. I suppose I am just worried bc everyone says neuro is easy to match to except at top programs (I am not interviewing at top programs). This is true for American MDs where almost 98% match. However for Independent applicants (US DO, USIMG, FMGs) the UNMATCHED rate is quite high at 37%. This is huge and I guess I'm just not sure where USDOs are in that independent scale. I am not sure if we are considered American grads like MDs from a neuro progra, director point of view or if we are the same as US Carrib students who don't need visas. Not really sure where we stand.

I interviewed at 8 places probably only going to rank 5-6.

 

[drCNS]

I agree with most of the other comments in this thread:
- If they offered you an interview, they think you are qualified for the residency, regardless of whether you are a DO or not. If the program didn't take DO's, they wouldn't have interviewed you
- the interview IS important. Like you said, it helps to make sure that people will fit into the program and lets the program know that you are not a red flag aka weirdo.
- In terms of the match, rank where YOU want to go first. Remember that the match is skewed to make the applicants happier than the programs. Say you rank X program 1st (dream program) and program y (back up) second. If you don't match into the first, but you are ranked highly in program y, having not matched at program x will not affect your chances of getting into program y.
- rank all programs where you feasibly see yourself in. The question, like others have also posted, is whether you would rather see yourself in that program vs. no program. In my opinion, this should not be taken lightly. Not matching the first time around can hurt you when reapplying.
- In terms of matching in your top three, as others have also pointed out, it doesn't matter if you're a DO or an MD. If you interviewed, and are unrealistic of where you stand, you will get shafted. But if you're a good candidate with good interviews (independent of DO or MD), and interview well, you will likely match in your top 3.
Hope this helps

 

[Chocolateagar04]

I agree with most of the other comments in this thread:
- If they offered you an interview, they think you are qualified for the residency, regardless of whether you are a DO or not. If the program didn't take DO's, they wouldn't have interviewed you
- the interview IS important. Like you said, it helps to make sure that people will fit into the program and lets the program know that you are not a red flag aka weirdo.
- In terms of the match, rank where YOU want to go first. Remember that the match is skewed to make the applicants happier than the programs. Say you rank X program 1st (dream program) and program y (back up) second. If you don't match into the first, but you are ranked highly in program y, having not matched at program x will not affect your chances of getting into program y.
- rank all programs where you feasibly see yourself in. The question, like others have also posted, is whether you would rather see yourself in that program vs. no program. In my opinion, this should not be taken lightly. Not matching the first time around can hurt you when reapplying.
- In terms of matching in your top three, as others have also pointed out, it doesn't matter if you're a DO or an MD. If you interviewed, and are unrealistic of where you stand, you will get shafted. But if you're a good candidate with good interviews (independent of DO or MD), and interview well, you will likely match in your top 3.
Hope this helps

Sigh.... Howbseriouslybdo u think one should consider advanced vs categorical programs? I only interviewed at 4 prelim programs but my fab progs were advanced. Is it really that difficult to scramble into prelim regardless of ideal location?

 

[drCNS]

Being a DO might actually be favorable in the condition that you have to scramble. You might be able to score a prelim spot off the osteopathic match. However, beware - when going for prelim spots, you are up against some of the best students out there, especially if the program is 'cushie'... (ie rad onc, derm etc.) so yes, competition for good programs is tough. Most advanced neuro programs, however, also have ties to other programs. You should write your top programs and ask them about other prelim programs close to them or that they may know about and see if you can still apply for those.

Good luck!