Ranking programs with both Advanced and Categorical spots.

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I have a question about setting up a my rank list and Im pretty sure of the answer but just wanted to ask.
I am applying to PM&R and a few of the programs I plan to rank have both an Advanced and Categorical program. I like a few prelim programs better than their built in year but not more than others. Is there anyway to set up a rank list list so that their built in year could be a 3rd or 4th choice?

Such as:
Advanced position(3 yr)
- prelim 1
-prelim 2
-prelim 3
- categorical program(4yr)
-prelim 4
-prelim 5

 

[Samoa]

You would have to set it up as follows:

Primary rank list:
1. Advanced position program A--> Supplemental rank list A if matched (see below)
2. Categorical position program A (stop here if matched at this position, no supplemental rank list)
3. Advanced position program B --> Supplemental rank list B if matched
4-X. Other programs
X+1. Prelim 1 (if you don't match at any advanced program)
X+2. Prelim 2

Supplemental rank lists:
A1. prelim 1
A2. prelim 2
A3. prelim 3
A4. prelim 4
A5. prelim 5

B1. prelim 6
B2. prelim 7
...etc.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Is there anyway to set up a rank list list so that their built in year could be a 3rd or 4th choice?

Such as:
Advanced position(3 yr)
- prelim 1
-prelim 2
-prelim 3
- categorical program(4yr)
-prelim 4
-prelim 5

No. You rank the Adv or Cat programs in whatever order you want, and then the prelims for the Adv list. You can't split it like this.

 

[bigDinLV]

What you have to decide is if you would rather have a categorical program where you can do your intership at the same place vs an internship one place and then move after a year to complete your training. You could of course try to scramble for an internship in the area you will do you your advanced at..

So lets say you have programs A and B..
You like program A better than B, but would rather just do it all at one place.
Rank 1 - program A categorical
Rank 2 - Program B categorical

Now if you want to try for those programs and can find an internship somewhere then you also rank the advanced below the categorical
Rank 3 - Program A advanced
Rank 4 - Program B advanced..


Here is the other situation.. You absolutely love program A more than program B and could deal with doing an internship somewhere else and then go to program A.. Rather than end up at Program B for the whole time..
Rank 1 - Program A categorical
Rank 2 - Program A advanced
Rank 3 - program B categorical
Rank 4 - Program B advanced

 

[rox]

Here is the other situation.. You absolutely love program A more than program B and could deal with doing an internship somewhere else and then go to program A.. Rather than end up at Program B for the whole time..
Rank 1 - Program A categorical
Rank 2 - Program A advanced
Rank 3 - program B categorical
Rank 4 - Program B advanced

Do programs that offer both categorical and advanced positions for the same speciality even exist? I'm just curious.

 

[guitarguy09]

Do programs that offer both categorical and advanced positions for the same speciality even exist? I'm just curious.

You bet! My rank list has 4-5 programs with both. I think many programs are "in transition" to a categorical system. Over the next few years, we will likely see (as we have been seeing) a reduction in advanced and an increase in categorical anesthesia programs. The ACGME recs for anesthesia are getting more difficult for prelims to comply with (2 ICU months, etc.) so many programs are trying to create their own PGY-1 positions and have more control over that first year.

 

[rox]

So how do you apply to these programs? I mean do you apply to both spots if you're interested in any of them at that certain program? and if you're interested in just either Cat or Adv you basically apply only for the one you're interested in? Is that how it works?

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

So how do you apply to these programs? I mean do you apply to both spots if you're interested in any of them at that certain program? and if you're interested in just either Cat or Adv you basically apply only for the one you're interested in? Is that how it works?

They each have their own NRMP #'s so you can do it a variety of ways. Ranking them both in the order you prefer categorical vs. advanced, as well as ranking only one or the other is acceptable. For instance, you may like the advanced position but want to do something like a transitional year which is easier than the built in intern year. Or you may only want to go to this program if you get the internship year there like somebody who only wants to move once.

 

[rox]

Alright, makes sense. What if you want to match into a certain program so bad? Do you apply for both Cat and Adv and rank them according to your preference? In that case, how would the program rank you? Would they rank you for each position separatly?

 

[guitarguy09]

Alright, makes sense. What if you want to match into a certain program so bad? Do you apply for both Cat and Adv and rank them according to your preference? In that case, how would the program rank you? Would they rank you for each position separatly?

Yeah you could rank your #1 program as positions 1 & 2. The programs have to submit two different lists (however they are often the same list, unless applicants have specified that they only applied to one of them).

 

[rox]

Yeah you could rank your #1 program as positions 1 & 2. The programs have to submit two different lists (however they are often the same list, unless applicants have specified that they only applied to one of them).

So if you're interested in a program X and ranked both of their Adv and Cat as positions 1 & 2, this could potentially harm you in case they are not interested in you and ranked you low. Right? This could be more disastrous if the same happens with your 3rd anf 4th positions 😱

 

[bjackrian]

So if you're interested in a program X and ranked both of their Adv and Cat as positions 1 & 2, this could potentially harm you in case they are not interested in you and ranked you low. Right? This could be more disastrous if the same happens with your 3rd anf 4th positions 😱

No it would not harm you. NRMP's algorithm would simply go to the next program on your list and treat your 3rd choice like it was your second (or your fifth choice like it was your fourth). There is no advantage to not ranking a program in order to give lower programs a "higher" rank. The only way it would be an issue is if you're at >20 programs and have to start paying to rank per program.

 

[rox]

No it would not harm you. NRMP's algorithm would simply go to the next program on your list and treat your 3rd choice like it was your second (or your fifth choice like it was your fourth).

This is reassuring.