Rating the SMPs

[ctothed]

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Anyone want to give a subjective rating of the SMPs... based on quality of courses, reputation, tie to medical school, % matriculation into medical school of previous classes, cost, alternative career options as a result of successful completion. I know its probably impossible- but maybe the SDN community can do it.

• Ros Frank,
• EVMS,
• Georgetown,
• U of Boston,
• NYMC,
• Drexel,
• Loyola,
• UMDNJ,
• UMDNJ,
• Roswell Park Cancer Institute U of B,
• Barry U
• any other missing ones not already listed

 

[sunnyjohn]

Calling Dr. Phil_A!!! Dr. Phil_A !!

 

[ctothed]

Calling Dr. Phil_A!!! Dr. Phil_A !!

that's right... phil_anthro is the SMP genius

 

[ShyD33]

Anyone want to give a subjective rating of the SMPs... based on quality of courses, reputation, tie to medical school, % matriculation into medical school of previous classes, cost, alternative career options as a result of successful completion. I know its probably impossible- but maybe the SDN community can do it.

• Ros Frank,
• EVMS,
• Georgetown,
• U of Boston,
• NYMC,
• Drexel,
• Loyola,
• UMDNJ,
• UMDNJ,
• Roswell Park Cancer Institute U of B,
• Barry U
• any other missing ones not already listed

I can not wait to read this! I wonder if there's any consensus on what rankign would be (as far as getting into an MD program)

 

[Fusion]

I am a graduate of the BU Medical Sciences program, and two good friends of mine have also done SMP's - one at Drexel (IMS) and the other at Georgetown. To sum it up, if you are truly committed to becoming a physician and are willing to work harder than you ever have before, these types of programs will help you immensely. If you are not ready to go the extra mile, well, don't even apply. My friend at G-town got six or seven interviews and eventually got three acceptances (he was waitlisted everwhere until June). My friend at Drexel got two US MD interviews and ended up at St. George's (which is a very respectable alternative). I myself am applying this year and have had five interviews (4 MD, 1 DO), all resulting in waitlists. Of course, many things go into an application, not just your performance in your SMP. Translation: without a decent MCAT score (at LEAST 27), your chances of getting into a US MD school will be difficult (though not at all impossible). In other words, don't neglect the MCAT and just think that your SMP will carry you through. It won't. You will need both. Trust me, you don't want to apply to med school with a 25 or 26, no matter how good your graduate GPA is (unless of course you have a high undergrad GPA - but then you wouldn't need an SMP to begin with, would you?). Interestingly enough, we did have some ppl in our program with very high undergrad GPAs. I still don't know what the hell they were doing there. To each his/her own. But I digress...

It really depends what you want out of an SMP. Do you want to start med school immediately after you finish a year-long program, avoid a thesis, and have the best shot at getting into the same med school where you did your SMP? Go to the AP program at RFU (they take a relatively high proportion of AP'ers into their med school). Do you want a little more name recognition to go along with your graduate degree? Go to BU or Georgetown. Do you want to sit in class with real life med students? Go to BU, G'town, or RFU. Drexel lets you watch the lecture from a live video feed. But that's not to say it isn't a good program, because it is and will strengthen your application if you take it as seriously as you should. I hear pretty good things about the program at EVMS, though they only take about a dozen students or so each year. I've heard decent things about Barry's program as well and briefly considered it. I think they let you take classes with the podiatry students and many students go on to osteopathic schools (from what I have heard on SDN - take that for what it is). For some reason, Georgetown's program has a reputation for being intense. Guess what? NEWSFLASH: ALL of these programs are frickin' intense! Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. That's not to say that people are stabbing each other in the back, just that you had better be damned motivated to study, because the guy next to you certainly is. I have made some of the best friends I ever had at BU. Something about going through such a rigorous endeavor really brings people together, and we all helped each other out, studied together, shared notes, offered advice and encouragement, etc. But when it comes down to it, you are the only one who can get you into med school.

Hope this helps some. Now I will hand it over to Phil 🙂

 

[sjy23]

1. Georgetown
2. Drexel
3. Rosalind Franklin
4. BU
5. all others

 

[ctothed]

1. Georgetown
2. Drexel
3. Rosalind Franklin
4. BU
5. all others

just out of curiosity- why did u chose Drexel higher than BU?

From what I've read and heard, I think BU and Georgetown are pretty comparable. But these programs are pretty large- and a smaller program may be more helpful for personal application support. Does anyone know, firsthand or otherwise, how the application counseling is at these schools?

 

[Thegandlighs]

You get a lot of support from Drs. Myers, Mulroney, and Sherman. Their offices are almost always open for you to drop by and ask questions. Ms. Cabiness is also very helpful with anything regarding sending and letters of recommendation for you and other administrative matters. In the first semester, there are a number of class meetings where the directors will speak to the class about what they should be doing regarding the medical school apps if they are applying that year. Also, for those that plan on applying after the completion of the SMP year, you will still receive continued support from the directors. Dr. Myers says that for some this is a two year process (from the beginning of the SMP). Support is definitely one of the aspects in this program that is not lacking.

 

[imrep1972]

You get a lot of support from Drs. Myers, Mulroney, and Sherman. Their offices are almost always open for you to drop by and ask questions. Ms. Cabiness is also very helpful with anything regarding sending and letters of recommendation for you and other administrative matters. In the first semester, there are a number of class meetings where the directors will speak to the class about what they should be doing regarding the medical school apps if they are applying that year. Also, for those that plan on applying after the completion of the SMP year, you will still receive continued support from the directors. Dr. Myers says that for some this is a two year process (from the beginning of the SMP). Support is definitely one of the aspects in this program that is not lacking.

My understanding is that you are also assigned a professor to work with one on one as an advisor to improve your application. You can meet with them weekly, if you want. I would think that would also help to overcome the "large class" syndrome that might otherwise be present.

 

[cammy1313]

My understanding is that you are also assigned a professor to work with one on one as an advisor to improve your application. You can meet with them weekly, if you want. I would think that would also help to overcome the "large class" syndrome that might otherwise be present.

At BU you aren't "assigned" a faculty member but the profs are EXTREMELY helpful and encouraging. Dr Vaughan was my mentor for the year as she showed incredible faith in me. She read over my PS, wrote me a letter of rec, and answered any questions I had about interviews and what not. She was equally helpful when it came to BU GMS coursework. I think the fact that BU doesn't hold your hand but rather encourages that you be proactive truly helps bring out the qualities that you would need for interviews, and as a physician as well. I personally am not a fan of having things forced upon me but would rather have the knowledge of what's available to me. I suppose if you're someone that hesitates to take initiative then perhaps BU might not be the best program.

 

[Thegandlighs]

Yes, a faculty member will be assigned to write a letter of recommendation for you. Every Physio gets a letter of recommendation written for them around the end of fall semester. This letter also includes the grades for the courses you have completed up to that point as well as your current grade for the courses you have in progress. It is up to you to take the initiative and set a meeting time with the faculty member and to let him/her know when you need the letter by. The fact that this is available to all the physios is a plus.
Just a note, not all of the faculty that are assigned to write the LOR's would be great for medical application advice. For those that get Drs. Myers or Mulroney as advisors, I think that's definitely a plus. However, their main purpose is to at least write you a letter of rec.

 

[imrep1972]

Just a note, not all of the faculty that are assigned to write the LOR's would be great for medical application advice. For those that get Drs. Myers or Mulroney as advisors, I think that's definitely a plus. However, their main purpose is to at least write you a letter of rec.

I hadn't thought of that, but that makes sense. Is there a way to find out who is good and who is not? Something like a website like "rate my professor?"

It would be helpful to know going in what your advisor/letter writer's strengths were.

Also, Theg, I notice that your SDN display says you are in CA. Are you a grad of the SMP program, or are you currently in and just didn't update your location?

 

[Thegandlighs]

imrep,
Yeah, I'm a current physio, but my home is in CA. Didn't update my location.

The only way you can find out about the type of letter writer you have beforehand is by talking to the former physios in the first year class. Most of the writers that are doing this will have written letters for the physios for a number of years, so there isn't a need to worry about getting a bad letter.

One more thing about getting advice and support throughout the year. You'll also be assigned to a big bro/sis for the year that you are in the SMP. These are former Physios that are in the first year class. For those that are entering the SMP next fall, they will be the students from this year's Physio class that are attending Gtown next fall as MS1's.

For some, their big bro/sis will be a good resource as they can provide you advice for classes (books to buy, what to focus on in your classes....etc) as well as other information you might need. For others, you may not hear from them ever again after the orientation.

 

[Phil Anthropist]

Hahaha...I'm being called out! 😛

A lot of good points by Fusion, by the way. 👍

I'm a little reluctant to rate these because some of the criteria will conflict.

If you want the highest probability of being accepted into med school for the following year, Rosalind Franklin's MS in Applied Physiology is the best option. EVMS sounds similar, but the program is so darn small that it's hard to say.

If you want to improve your credentials to apply after completing one year in the program, I would say G-town and BU rival for the top position (I would give a slight edge to G-town, but Boston U definitely has its advantages such as the thesis).

If you are a borderline applicant (e.g., 3.4 cume, 3.3 bcpm, 30 MCAT) and you are applying to many med schools while doing an SMP-type program, I think Georgetown is the best option because it's on a block system as opposed to the traditional semester system.

If career options are a major concern, the programs that allow you to do a laboratory thesis will probably provide you with the most options. These would include BU MA in Medical Sciences, UMDNJ MS in Biomedical Sciences, Drexel Master of Medical Sciences (IMS + research), and VCU's MS in (one of the pre-medical certificate tracks).

If cost is a major concern, UMDNJ is a better option than BU, Georgetown, and Rosalind Franklin. If you want to take courses with med students and cost is an issue, here's a program that not too many people are familiar with: Creighton's MS in Biomedical Sciences. I know one person on SDN is in the program, took a few medical courses, paid no tuition, AND got a stipend. The big downside is that Creighton's med school pays more attention to undergrad grades, so the MS in Biomedical Sciences program does not have a strong linkage to the med school. Also, you need a solid background in research to get full tuition remission and a stipend.

So as you can see I think it's hard to rank them. I can give you my opinions on some strengths and weaknesses, from what I've gathered, but again, I'm reluctant to rank 'em in order.

However, if you're looking for something more like this:

Rosalind Franklin

Quality of Courses: Excellent; the courses include most of Chicago Medical School's MS-1 courses with a few exceptions (e.g., Gross Anatomy)

Reputation: The program isn't known for getting you into other med schools, but is very strong for getting you into Chicago Medical School. A lot of people say bad things about CMS, but the clinical training and reputation isn't as bad as most people think. The residency placement is pretty good (see match list).

Tie to Medical School: Strongest of any SMP. The possible exception is EVMS, but EVMS's program is much smaller.

% matriculation in previous classes: Students who perform well usually matriculate to CMS. Some get acceptances elsewhere. There is no glide year. Other programs like BU and Georgetown claim success rates around 85%, but this typically includes a glide year.

Cost: Ouch. $52k estimated cost for tuition and living expenses for the year. If you matriculate into CMS, you'll pay four more years at about the same cost.

Alternative Career options: Minimal. The degree is an MS-in-I-want-to-go-to-Medical-School. It is good at what it is intended for, but not much else.

That's probably doable, but it would take quite a bit of work. 😛

 

[ctothed]

Phil_A.... is the man on SDN 😎 ! Can anyone contribute similar info about the other programs?

 

[jkherson]

Hahaha...I'm being called out! 😛

If you are a borderline applicant (e.g., 3.4 cume, 3.3 bcpm, 30 MCAT) and you are applying to many med schools while doing an SMP-type program, I think Georgetown is the best option because it's on a block system as opposed to the traditional semester system.

Ha! You know you're in trouble when your MCAT and your GPA avg are the same numbers, just one has a decimal smack in the middle ;-P

I have my fingers crossed, I'm applying the day AMCAS opens this year ... I'm a reapplicant (submitted my app in late july, had a HUGE error -- didn't enter any grades accidentally -- so my app was competed in august) And I am attending G-Town SMP this Fall.

Hopefully my mediocre GPA/MCAT plus SMP plus early app will be the combo necessary for a mediocre med school.

I CANT STRESS APPLYING EARLY FELLAS !!! ITS A MUST!!!

-Jonathan
ps. i'm waitlisted for only 1 school out of THIRTY! (Sackler)

 

[ctothed]

rating the smps..

 

[calbear15]

1. G-Town
2. BU
3. Loyola
4. EVMS
5. RFUMS (I don't like that it costs an arm and a leg and I'm also gonna freeze to death)

Out of all these schools, I know the least about EVMS, and it's the only one that wants me so far. Does anyone know any former students of EVMS masters? I kindda want to find out what they like or don't like about the program. I like that the program is only limited to 20 students...but do you guys think that matters? They all just take classes with M1 anyway right? What's the town of Norfolk like?

 

[TiggidyTooth]

1. G-Town
2. BU
3. Loyola
4. EVMS
5. RFUMS (I don't like that it costs an arm and a leg and I'm also gonna freeze to death)

Out of all these schools, I know the least about EVMS, and it's the only one that wants me so far. Does anyone know any former students of EVMS masters? I kindda want to find out what they like or don't like about the program. I like that the program is only limited to 20 students...but do you guys think that matters? They all just take classes with M1 anyway right? What's the town of Norfolk like?

I applyed to EVMS and was waitlisted, do you mind letting me know what your stats were? That would be awsome.

Tooth

 

[calbear15]

I applyed to EVMS and was waitlisted, do you mind letting me know what your stats were? That would be awsome.

Tooth

Sure! 2.3 BCPM/3.1 Cumulative/ 32Q

My acceptance is unofficial though, just to let you know. I'm going by the word of the of the staff I talked to on the phone; still waiting for my fedex packet.

cheers everyone

 

[tacrum43]

If you are a borderline applicant (e.g., 3.4 cume, 3.3 bcpm, 30 MCAT) and you are applying to many med schools while doing an SMP-type program, I think Georgetown is the best option because it's on a block system as opposed to the traditional semester system.

Have you been reading my profile? Because those are exactly my stats! I am planning on going to Georgetown's SMP this fall (provided I get in, they haven't reviewed my application yet). I went out to their openhouse on Friday and I loved it. I never thought I would be excited to go to a post-bacc, but I am now. I'd still take a last minute interview and acceptance (come on Rosalind Franklin...) over Georgetown's SMP, but I think the SMP would be a good investment of my time and money.

 

[Phil Anthropist]

Have you been reading my profile? Because those are exactly my stats! I am planning on going to Georgetown's SMP this fall (provided I get in, they haven't reviewed my application yet). I went out to their openhouse on Friday and I loved it. I never thought I would be excited to go to a post-bacc, but I am now. I'd still take a last minute interview and acceptance (come on Rosalind Franklin...) over Georgetown's SMP, but I think the SMP would be a good investment of my time and money.

Hahaha...I have seen your MDapplicants profile (I compulsively click on just about every single one of those links in SDNers' signatures), but I didn't have you in mind at the time of that post. 😛 You keep a nice detailed profile, by the way.

My cursed schedule is really screwing things up, otherwise the Georgetown SMP would have been one of my top choices. My main reasons for not shooting for G-town are that I'm most likely going to take the MCAT this August and I'd like to have a little more time to get some more ECs in.

Well, good luck with getting into the G-town SMP! You also mentioned that you're hoping for an interview/acceptance from Rosalind Franklin/Chicago Medical School. Did you apply to the SMP there too (MS in Applied Physiology)? Definitely worth a look...and from what I gather, it has the strongest linkage of any special masters program. Of course, more people would probably prefer Georgetown's med school over Rosalind Franklin's.

You know I really liked G-town's campus when I visited (my brother was visiting for college once and I went there for some university trips as well). One thing that scared the living crap out of me though was when I fell asleep and had to catch up with my friends. I had to get directions on the way over to the restaurant where they were. I found myself on this really long, creepy staircase. Then it hit me...I've seen this staircase somewhere before...It was so quiet and so cold.

And then I remembered...







THIS WAS THE STAIRCASE IN THE EXORCIST!!! 😱 😱









All by myself in the bitter cold with no one to hear me should I release a blood-curdling scream, I rushed down those steps faster than Michael Johnson in the 1996 Olympics! I lived to see another day. And luckily, I did this without tripping and peeing my pants 👍

 

[tacrum43]

Hahaha...I have seen your MDapplicants profile (I compulsively click on just about every single one of those links in SDNers' signatures), but I didn't have you in mind at the time of that post. 😛 You keep a nice detailed profile, by the way.

My cursed schedule is really screwing things up, otherwise the Georgetown SMP would have been one of my top choices. My main reasons for not shooting for G-town are that I'm most likely going to take the MCAT this August and I'd like to have a little more time to get some more ECs in.

Well, good luck with getting into the G-town SMP! You also mentioned that you're hoping for an interview/acceptance from Rosalind Franklin/Chicago Medical School. Did you apply to the SMP there too (MS in Applied Physiology)? Definitely worth a look...and from what I gather, it has the strongest linkage of any special masters program. Of course, more people would probably prefer Georgetown's med school over Rosalind Franklin's.

You know I really liked G-town's campus when I visited (my brother was visiting for college once and I went there for some university trips as well). One thing that scared the living crap out of me though was when I fell asleep and had to catch up with my friends. I had to get directions on the way over to the restaurant where they were. I found myself on this really long, creepy staircase. Then it hit me...I've seen this staircase somewhere before...It was so quiet and so cold.

And then I remembered...







THIS WAS THE STAIRCASE IN THE EXORCIST!!! 😱 😱









All by myself in the bitter cold with no one to hear me should I release a blood-curdling scream, I rushed down those steps faster than Michael Johnson in the 1996 Olympics! I lived to see another day. And luckily, I did this without tripping and peeing my pants 👍

Where was this staircase? Is it really the one from the movie? If so, that is kind of creepy. Besides the staircase (which I didn't see) Georgetown's campus seemed beautiful. The buildings were all old brick, looked solid and were all similar in architecture, which I thought gave the campus a very cohesive feel. Not like my undergrad, Cal Poly, which has many vintage 1960s and '70s concrete buildings. Also, the lunch they put on for us made Poly's food look like prison refuse.

I didn't apply to Rosalind Franklin's program (at least not yet) because it's so expensive and about the only school that the graduates get into is Rosalind Franklin. At first, I didn't think I would like to go to that school because of its financial problems and the fact that it doesn't have an associated hospital, but actually I'm quite interested in it now because of their matchlist. They match a lot into EM and anesthesiology, both of which I'm interested in. I don't really feel that I should apply to their program until they actually reject me from the school. If I don't get into Georgetown's SMP, it would probably be my second choice. Although, Georgetown does actually have some other Master's programs that sounded interesting including Tumor biology and Pharmacology. I'm pretty confident that I'll get into the SMP (at last, my numbers are above average for SOMETHING), but again, I am not assuming anything at this point.

So what are you doing for next year Phil?

 

[calbear15]

Phil, why did you have to go and write those red letters in bold? Sooo creepy.... it's definitely bringing up memories from 15 years ago when I made the mistake of watching that movie by myself.....(brr...shiver)

Anyway, tacrum43, I don't think you should wait until you get rejected from the med school to apply to the masters program. I think a lot of people apply to both programs simultaneously and if they get into the med school, they withdraw their application from the masters program. Unless the application fee is a concern, (I forget how much it is...$75?) you should apply ASAP.

 

[tacrum43]

Phil, why did you have to go and write those red letters in bold? Sooo creepy.... it's definitely bringing up memories from 15 years ago when I made the mistake of watching that movie by myself.....(brr...shiver)

Anyway, tacrum43, I don't think you should wait until you get rejected from the med school to apply to the masters program. I think a lot of people apply to both programs simultaneously and if they get into the med school, they withdraw their application from the masters program. Unless the application fee is a concern, (I forget how much it is...$75?) you should apply ASAP.

Well, I suppose I did just spend almost $1000 to fly out to Georgetown's openhouse and stay there for two nights. What's $75 more for Rosalind Franklin's program?

 

[Phil Anthropist]

Phil, why did you have to go and write those red letters in bold? Sooo creepy.... it's definitely bringing up memories from 15 years ago when I made the mistake of watching that movie by myself.....(brr...shiver)

I think I can beat Phil...But I am a little scared of him.

BWAHAHAHA!!! Just a little? 😀

Actually, my mom popped this movie on when I was still in the room at the time. I was like seven years old. Scarred for life, dude. No wonder I grew up needing a night light...Thanks mom!

Where was this staircase? Is it really the one from the movie? If so, that is kind of creepy.

I can't remember the exact location. It's definitely close to G-town's campus though. It is the one from the movie (the first one). The story is loosely based on a boy (it's a girl in the movie), part of the story took place at G-town, and part of the story took place at St. Louis University (also a Catholic, Jesuit school). There's a part of the admissions building (DuBourg Hall) at SLU that's closed off. Part of the exorcism took place there. I've heard strange things about that closed off area. One of the priests involved in that particular exorcism is still at SLU.

 

[Phil Anthropist]

I didn't apply to Rosalind Franklin's program (at least not yet) because it's so expensive and about the only school that the graduates get into is Rosalind Franklin...I'm quite interested in it now because of their matchlist. They match a lot into EM and anesthesiology, both of which I'm interested in.

I was impressed with their matches in those fields as well.

I'm pretty confident that I'll get into the SMP (at last, my numbers are above average for SOMETHING), but again, I am not assuming anything at this point.

My guess is you'll get into the G-town SMP, but I would definitely have a backup of some sort, just in case. I don't know whether or not it would be better to apply to RFU AP now or when you find out whether or not they're rejecting/interviewing you. My understanding is that Chicago Med interviews much later than most schools, so who knows...you might still get lucky. I must say though, I'm a little surprised that you haven't received any interviews yet. I know you mentioned in your profile that you took a little bit of a slide one quarter, so maybe that has something to do with it. But I'm still surprised. With your applicant profile, I thought you would have had a few interview offers. Did you get any feedback from the adcoms?

The Tumor Biology program sounds interesting to me too and it only takes one year. I wouldn't do it over an SMP, but it does sound like an interesting program.

So what are you doing for next year Phil?

I've been asking myself that very question a lot lately. 😳 I can't give you a concrete answer, but I have a rough idea. My tentative plan for this Fall is to do a one-year pre-professional masters program of some sort. For a variety of reasons, I won't be able to apply to some of the programs that I think are the best. One of these reasons is that the earliest I'll take the MCAT is August. This alone will rule out any MCAT-only programs (e.g., EVMS and Loyola). Some programs start well before the August MCAT (e.g., Rosalind Franklin, Georgetown) and I'd like to have a little breather before the graduate program starts. Taking this into account, I still have a few choices. BU is still a possibility, but there are other programs I'm seriously considering.

Also, I am taking my sweet ass time. I don't expect to file AMCAS (I may or may not file AACOMAS) until the summer of '07 for the entering class of '08. I intend to earn a master's in bioethics before I enroll in med school, so that's one of the key reasons why I've postponed filing AMCAS. I know some schools allow you to finish an MA in Bioethics while completing a 4-yr MD degree (Case Western comes to mind), but I'd rather be finished with it before med school starts. I have a friend at Duke SOM who shares my passion for biomedical/clinical ethics. Things aren't working out for him and it looks like he's going to switch from Duke's Medical Humanities track into the Research track that most of the other Duke students are in. Anyway, getting a degree in bioethics beforehand would allow me to avoid a similar predicament. I recently had the opportunity to speak with one of the members of the President's Council on Bioethics and that discussion has greatly renewed my interest. Having the opportunity to pursue graduate work in bioethics while adding to my applicant profile is a win-win situation for me.

 

[jackbnimble]

Where was this staircase? Is it really the one from the movie? If so, that is kind of creepy. Besides the staircase (which I didn't see) Georgetown's campus seemed beautiful. The buildings were all old brick, looked solid and were all similar in architecture, which I thought gave the campus a very cohesive feel. Not like my undergrad, Cal Poly, which has many vintage 1960s and '70s concrete buildings. Also, the lunch they put on for us made Poly's food look like prison refuse.

I didn't apply to Rosalind Franklin's program (at least not yet) because it's so expensive and about the only school that the graduates get into is Rosalind Franklin. At first, I didn't think I would like to go to that school because of its financial problems and the fact that it doesn't have an associated hospital, but actually I'm quite interested in it now because of their matchlist. They match a lot into EM and anesthesiology, both of which I'm interested in. I don't really feel that I should apply to their program until they actually reject me from the school. If I don't get into Georgetown's SMP, it would probably be my second choice. Although, Georgetown does actually have some other Master's programs that sounded interesting including Tumor biology and Pharmacology. I'm pretty confident that I'll get into the SMP (at last, my numbers are above average for SOMETHING), but again, I am not assuming anything at this point.

So what are you doing for next year Phil?

By the Car Barn, off Prospect===going down to M Street. Near the Tombs.

 

[tacrum43]

By the Car Barn, off Prospect===going down to M Street. Near the Tombs.

I'll put that on my to avoid list then.

 

[jackbnimble]

I was impressed with their matches in those fields as well.

My

 

[imrep1972]

MCAT is only one week after start of Gtwn SMP. Go on and apply and join us
Jackb

There was a discussion about this on the SMP yahoo page recently. Unfortunately, since the SMP takes the med school classes, and the classes start before the Aug MCAT, it is not possible, this year, to enter the SMP and take the Aug MCAT. Dr. Myers confirmed this. Sorry.

 

[Phil Anthropist]

Besides Duke, probably one of the 5 most difficult schools to get in, Penn also has a superb Bioethics program.

MCAT is only one week after start of Gtwn SMP. Go on and apply and join us One of those immitable comedians said we will get enough time to rest after we die. Also, Georgetown has a very good Bioethics program and it is not Jesuit based as one might expect...And SMP students can take Gtwn classes at no additional charge....

Best of luck,

Jackb

Thanks for the info jackb! 🙂

Pursuing the bioethics degree is quite down the road for me, but I have checked up a little bit on the UPenn program and it would be one of my top choices. G-town would be another program that I would consider. In fact, it is one of the few schools that offers a Ph.D. in Bioethics (no, I'm not going to go that far), it has the Kennedy Institute of Ethics, and it has some prominent figures in the bioethics world such as Dr. Gomez-Lobo.

It doesn't surprise me that G-town isn't too Jesuit-based. They seem to get into conflicts with the Church more often than the other major Catholic universities. But in the realm of bioethics, I think it is advantageous to have a program that isn't religion-based. Two other Jesuit schools, Loyola and SLU, also have graduate programs in this field, but Loyola's program looks weak (they even have a fully online correspondence MA in Bioethics degree...uhm...no) and SLU's seems to be more religion-based. In discussing such issues, it is more efficacious to practice ethics with a philosophical perspective than a religious perspective.

Here's the deal with the G-town SMP. I'd have to gear up to take the GRE since I wouldn't be applying with the MCAT. That's not too much of a problem, but it will cut into my MCAT study time a little. I would also risk burning out and the last thing I want to do is crash and burn in the SMP. I'd also like to add more meaningful ECs to my profile. I've got some pretty good stuff on my record, but I still think I need more. Maybe I'm just paranoid. Anyway, I don't think I'll have the time to pursue too many ECs in the SMP. If not for these roadblocks, I would love to be at G-town. I doubt I'll apply, but I wish you all the best of luck!

 

[TheKoman]

Well, I'd thought Id add my 2 cents. I think Phil is correct when he talks about rating SMP programs. I dont know much about the other programs but I do know about GU-SMP and RFU-AP. Both have their strengh and weaknesses. If some of you read my other post, you might think that Im anti-GU. However, thats not true. Although my loyalty is with RFU since I go here, I do believe that GU-SMP is good for certain ppl.

I'll start with RFU-AP first:
1) Best linkage program (about 55% get into RFU)
2) Good for students with sub-par scores. 3.0GPA 29MCAT
3) Bad for helping you into other US med schools if you have a sub-par score, it might help for maybe D.O. or foreign medical schools
4) Expensive
5) GOOD match list however and student do well on boards

Now GU-SMP
1) Not so good linkage with school (25% get into GU)
2) Good for helping students get into other medical schools (providing decent undergrad scores etc)
3) Good for students with decent scores. 3.4 GPA 31MCAT
4) Cost: Still a little high but not as bad as RFU so I hear
5) Normal match list but Better name than RFU

I'd pick GU if I had the grades but if you're just looking to get into med school because your undergrad grades suck or your MCATs are really low, Id look into RFU-AP.

Other SMP programs
Dont know much but I hear BU is good too. I hear drexel is poor because you dont even get to sit with the medical students, you're in a remote location and watch a broadcasted lecture. Kinda sucks in my opinion but I guess they do get some ppl into med school so. Since I dont know much about these programs, I cant really judge them or comment too much.

Hope that helps, even if Phil said all that stuff already.....

:

I'm a little reluctant to rate these because some of the criteria will conflict.

If you want the highest probability of being accepted into med school for the following year, Rosalind Franklin's MS in Applied Physiology is the best option. EVMS sounds similar, but the program is so darn small that it's hard to say.

If you want to improve your credentials to apply after completing one year in the program, I would say G-town and BU rival for the top position (I would give a slight edge to G-town, but Boston U definitely has its advantages such as the thesis).

Rosalind Franklin

Quality of Courses: Excellent; the courses include most of Chicago Medical School's MS-1 courses with a few exceptions (e.g., Gross Anatomy)

Reputation: The program isn't known for getting you into other med schools, but is very strong for getting you into Chicago Medical School. A lot of people say bad things about CMS, but the clinical training and reputation isn't as bad as most people think. The residency placement is pretty good (see match list).

Tie to Medical School: Strongest of any SMP. The possible exception is EVMS, but EVMS's program is much smaller.

% matriculation in previous classes: Students who perform well usually matriculate to CMS. Some get acceptances elsewhere. There is no glide year. Other programs like BU and Georgetown claim success rates around 85%, but this typically includes a glide year.

Cost: Ouch. $52k estimated cost for tuition and living expenses for the year. If you matriculate into CMS, you'll pay four more years at about the same cost.

Alternative Career options: Minimal. The degree is an MS-in-I-want-to-go-to-Medical-School. It is good at what it is intended for, but not much else.

 

[lmorea]

Does anyone have any info on the UMDNJ program?? Like how hard is it to get into the program, how hard is the actual program, and how much does it improve your chances of being accepted (anywhere). I have 34 MCAT but only 3.2 overall gpa and 2.85 science

 

[calbear15]

Does anyone have any info on the UMDNJ program?? Like how hard is it to get into the program, how hard is the actual program, and how much does it improve your chances of being accepted (anywhere). I have 34 MCAT but only 3.2 overall gpa and 2.85 science

My numbers are lower than yours and I got in.

32Q/ 3.1 overall/ 2.3 Science

 

[DrHuang]

tacrum, u have the exact same MCAT score and breakdown as me and the exact same Overall GPA...and ull prolly be at GT SMP next year...ur almost like my twin but-one-year-younger white brother!

heres me: http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?myid=03062

 

[tacrum43]

tacrum, u have the exact same MCAT score and breakdown as me and the exact same Overall GPA...and ull prolly be at GT SMP next year...ur almost like my twin but-one-year-younger white brother!

heres me: http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?myid=03062

Yea! I guess. I hope Georgetown will let me in. Did you like it? Do you think it helped your application? Congrats on getting an interview at Georgetown med by the way. Do you think you'll go there if they accept you?

 

[DrHuang]

Yea! I guess. I hope Georgetown will let me in. Did you like it? Do you think it helped your application? Congrats on getting an interview at Georgetown med by the way. Do you think you'll go there if they accept you?

yea, i really liked the program and it definitely helps your app if you do well...if they accept me, ill definitely go there unless i get accepted by UVM too...then id have a hard time choosing. btw, the secret is to get a 3.5+ the 1st semester...those that got 3.5+ the 1st semester were the ones who got interviews to the lower end med schools like drexel, rosanlind, st. louis, NYMC, etc so make sure u do well ur 1st semester!

 

[bioteacher]

I would really like to hear from others as well. I got accepted to EVMS. Once I learned about EVMS it was the best thing I've heard since I've got an interview, possibly better. Small class and I've heard a good chance of matriculating to EVMS. But this is all heard second hand. I got into a DO school but will go into EVMS. I also got into UPenn but don't want to wait two years. Their linkage to RWJ is only for 1-3 students.

I applied to 47 medical schools (beat that!), one interview and waitlisted.

My stats are 32S MCAT, 3.04 BCPM and 3.1 Overall. It might I have seven years high school biology teaching experience.

 

[Persistence101]

Now GU-SMP
5) Normal match list but Better name than RFU

Normal? Gtown's match list has always been quite impressive.

 

[LaurieB]

Thanks for the info jackb! 🙂
Two other Jesuit schools, Loyola and SLU, also have graduate programs in this field, but Loyola's program looks weak (they even have a fully online correspondence MA in Bioethics degree...uhm...no) and SLU's seems to be more religion-based.

I don't really know how Loyola's bioethics program rates compared to other schools, but I did want to mention that we have a combined MD/MA for Bioethics that gives out a nice scholarship (http://www.meddean.luc.edu/depts/bioethics/education/MD_MAprogram.htm). I don't think the website represents the program well. It is my impression that students do the online work for their formal education, but that participation in consults and conferences was also expected. If you are at all interested in Loyola for an MD, you might want to talk to students in the program about their experiences.

Laurie

 

[jackbnimble]

.

 

[tacrum43]

yea, i really liked the program and it definitely helps your app if you do well...if they accept me, ill definitely go there unless i get accepted by UVM too...then id have a hard time choosing. btw, the secret is to get a 3.5+ the 1st semester...those that got 3.5+ the 1st semester were the ones who got interviews to the lower end med schools like drexel, rosanlind, st. louis, NYMC, etc so make sure u do well ur 1st semester!

Have you already had your interview at Georgetown med? If so, how did it go? Thanks for the advice, I'll try to shoot for a 3.5+ in the first few classes then (well, ideally all of the classes). You know, I applied to all of those schools you mentioned this year, and nothing. I think the SMP should really help. I'm a little worried though because isn't Embryology one of the first classes you take? I haven't had that before.

 

[medstylee]

We had our Georgetown interviews last week and we should hear back hopefully by late May (but really anytime until the first day of classes! 😱 ). Anyway, about embryology, it's TOTAL MEMORIZATION. You'll all probably have to make an adjustment in your study habits (mainly becoming more disciplined enough to study 3-5 hours a day). Don't be worried about being new to embryology. I can guarantee you that almost everyone - meds and physios - will be new to it. The first day of class with Dr. Djakiew is a little overwhelming. He starts off with a small joke his daughter told him, then he jumps right into lecture, spitting out things like "mesonephros" and "metanephros" etc within the first hour-long lecture. Trust me, no one will have a clue what transpired until after re-reading the notes. You'll get used to it though.

Also, it's not true that you absolutely need a 3.5 to get an interview. I know for a fact that this is not true, at least this year. Don't get wrapped up in trying to get a specific GPA - just do the best you can do.

 

[Lizzie]

Also, it's not true that you absolutely need a 3.5 to get an interview. I know for a fact that this is not true, at least this year. Don't get wrapped up in trying to get a specific GPA - just do the best you can do.

Really? I have been looking into the program and am working on my application currently. I have a friend of a friend who is in the program and heard that the "cutoff" for interviews this year was higher than normal and that you had to have a 3.5! I think the program sounds great, and I am not scared of working hard, it just seems that I have been hearing a lot of conflicting information.

 

[LaurieB]

Hi Laurie,

Thanks a lot. I share Phil's interest in Bioethics and am glad to know that Loyola's program is more substantial. Are you in the combined program?

Again, thanks.

Jackb

I'm not in the program; this is just what I recall from information we got about the program. If anyone wants more information, I can try to point them in the right direction.

Sorry for getting this thread off topic again!
Laurie

 

[tacrum43]

There was a discussion about this on the SMP yahoo page recently. Unfortunately, since the SMP takes the med school classes, and the classes start before the Aug MCAT, it is not possible, this year, to enter the SMP and take the Aug MCAT. Dr. Myers confirmed this. Sorry.

Why couldn't you just take it in D.C. the Saturday after the first week of classes? I think Dr. Myers said that you could in fact do this, just that you shouldn't plan on any study time after classes start.

 

[imrep1972]

Why couldn't you just take it in D.C. the Saturday after the first week of classes? I think Dr. Myers said that you could in fact do this, just that you shouldn't plan on any study time after classes start.

Dunno... I'm just reporting what was said.

🙂