Ratings System Advice?

[AlairaK]

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I have just been accepted to two very different clinical psych programs.

I am fairly certain one program is MUCH stronger than the other, but I am slightly inclined to accept the less stronger.

Here are my questions:

Other than the gourman's report--does anyone know of a viable ratings system for Clinical Psych Ph.D. programs?

Also, HOW MUCH does the grad school matter for internship matching? Does it play into it a lot, or do other factors (such as GPA, publications, quals, etc) matter more?

PLEASE HELP, I do not know how to make my decision!!

 

[irish80122]

The best advice I have for you is to worry less about the ratings and more about where you fit best. At the end of the day your research will carry much more weight than where you went to school.

In fact, I truly think it is almost impossible to rank schools because it varies by professor. The school overall can be weak, but if you train under a big name in your field, it may not matter. Likewise, if you train at a top 5 school under someone who isn't respected in your field, it doesn't do you any good.

If I were you, the ranking I would use (if I were to use one) is the one that looks at where the current faculty at APA-accredited schools were trained. If you want to be a prof I think that is valuable. Other than that, I just can't think of a good way to do it, and even that is weak because really I think it all depends on who you will work with.

Go to the school with better opportunities for you to advance.

 

[AlairaK]

That's really good advice--thank you so much.

 

[Ollie123]

Rankings are not really worth much. If you want to be a prof, look at where his/her students are getting internships if that's available, how many publications they are getting as grad students, and the quality of journal. Rankings are only worthwhile to the extent that high quality schools tend to have high quality faculty. A tier system is somewhat more appropriate (albeit there are still tons of exceptions).

In most cases, grades mean absolutely nothing in grad school. Unless you're getting below a B, in which case they'll make you retake and/or kick you out😉 If by quals you mean qualifying exams, to the best of my knowledge no one outside the program ever sees them.

 

[AlairaK]

That's really good to know...

So what DOES determine if a student is getting an internship ?

 

[irish80122]

Clinical hours are a big part of it, as well as the school's reputation for giving good clinical training. Check out the APPIC website, they have all the internship rates posted. It is definitely something you should check out before accepting any offer.

 

[HeartSteps]

Try the Insider's Guide to Clinical and Counseling Psychology Programs by Mayne, Norcross, & Sayette. It rates how clinically and research oriented a program is on a continuum. That might be helpful for you to see where the 2 schools fall. Also, consider what YOUR long term goals are in making a decision. Consider the quality and type of mentoring you will receive. Is there a prof doing EXACTLY what you want to do? Then you can beat being mentored by someone with that expertise. Also, i know of many folks who attended really research oriented programs who wish that they had more clinical training and vice versa. Also, remember, there is no perfect program, and what you don't get in grad school, you can aim to get on internship and during a post doc. Congrats on your acceptances. Go with your gut and consider location, mentor, research/clinical training, your short and long terms goals. You can't go wrong.

I have just been accepted to two very different clinical psych programs.

I am fairly certain one program is MUCH stronger than the other, but I am slightly inclined to accept the less stronger.

Here are my questions:

Other than the gourman's report--does anyone know of a viable ratings system for Clinical Psych Ph.D. programs?

Also, HOW MUCH does the grad school matter for internship matching? Does it play into it a lot, or do other factors (such as GPA, publications, quals, etc) matter more?

PLEASE HELP, I do not know how to make my decision!!

 

[JockNerd]

Clinical hours are a big part of it, as well as the school's reputation for giving good clinical training. Check out the APPIC website, they have all the internship rates posted. It is definitely something you should check out before accepting any offer.

I don't really know how much clinical hours really play into it. At my school we don't accumulate a really great deal of hours (think 400/500-ish) but we have a great match rate. I think a recurring thing in interviews with site directors (I think gradPSYCH had one a few months back, among others you can find) is that once you pass the minimum number of hours, other things like match, training variety in prac, letters, and your application matter a lot more.

 

[Ollie123]

Yeah, I remember hearing that there is kind of a diminishing return on number of hours when it comes to internship. Obviously you'd want at least 500(ish) face to face, but from what I've heard, it doesn't sound like someone with 3000 necessarily has much of an advantage over someone with 1000 if the person with 1000 hours has had quality experiences and other strong credentials. Of course, I'm sure it depends on what kinds of internships you are applying for.

My biggest concern is actually not number of hours since there are plenty of opportunities here for me to nickel and dime my way to 500 (e.g. I volunteer twice a year to provide brief counseling for the homeless - that alone should have gotten me about 50 hours by the time I apply for internship). The "variety of experiences" does concern me though. I mean, I won't be doing projectives or anything and I don't expect that to be a problem given what I want to do with my career, but even then I imagine that research SCIDs and smoking cessation counseling will comprise an enormous portion of my hours. Combined with the fact that I'm going to be trying like hell to get by without doing a practicum, here's hoping I can find SOME way to work in variety🙂

 

[psychanon]

I don't really know how much clinical hours really play into it. At my school we don't accumulate a really great deal of hours (think 400/500-ish) but we have a great match rate. I think a recurring thing in interviews with site directors (I think gradPSYCH had one a few months back, among others you can find) is that once you pass the minimum number of hours, other things like match, training variety in prac, letters, and your application matter a lot more.

From what I understand, the number of hours isn't that important for research oriented internships like Brown or Western Psych, but it is important for more "clinically-oriented" sites (and obviously all internships are truly clinically oriented, but you know what I mean-- the ones without primary research components). So, if you have a lot of pubs and grants but not a lot of hours, you might get interviews at top, research oriented places, but not places like the big hospitals in NYC.

The "variety of experiences" does concern me though. I mean, I won't be doing projectives or anything and I don't expect that to be a problem given what I want to do with my career, but even then I imagine that research SCIDs and smoking cessation counseling will comprise an enormous portion of my hours. Combined with the fact that I'm going to be trying like hell to get by without doing a practicum, here's hoping I can find SOME way to work in variety

It may be worth taking a look at the APPIC application to give yourself an idea of what diversity in training means. For what it's worth, I don't think you need to have a checkmark in every category. You should be particularly careful to get clinical experience that is congruent with your research interests (from what I hear).

PS- to the OP- Where you go to grad school does factor into where you match for internship, but that's not necessarily the best reason to go the one school over the other. Where you go for internship matters relatively little (as long as you match)-- in fact, where you go to grad school has a much more lasting impact in itself. In terms of where to find rankings, there's no clear answer, and it depends on what your goals are. If you want to do research, I'd look at the article (I think in JCP) on Who's Training the Trainers and whose graduates publish the most. Because academia is prestige whorish, it may be worthwhile to look at US News, even though their methodology sucks and they're generally stupid (but they tend to get reified into public opinion). If you're looking more for quality of clinical training, you may be out of luck-- there's really no decent system, nor is there an obvious empirical indicator.

 

[Ollie123]

It may be worth taking a look at the APPIC application to give yourself an idea of what diversity in training means. For what it's worth, I don't think you need to have a checkmark in every category. You should be particularly careful to get clinical experience that is congruent with your research interests (from what I hear).

Oh I'll be swimming in that🙂

Well relative to the number of total hours I'll have anyways.

I'll definitely take a look at that. My expectation is a buttload of SCID hours, smoking cessation counseling, and general substance use/dependence counseling, some weight management and other general health-psych type things, some neuropsych and other types of assessment (e.g. MMPI, CPI,etc.) and then whatever cases I can pick up in the clinic (likely a whole bunch of simple CBT for mild-moderate depression and anxiety). I'll be avoiding children though might take on some adolescent cases.

Career-wise its about perfect for me since I'm primarily health psych so I'll likely see minor depression and the like more than I'll be dealing with say, inpatients, but if internships want experience with PTSD, schizo, bipolar, personality disorders, etc. I'm not sure I'll have it.