Reapplying! Help guide a lost soul.

[doctorswag]

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Hows it going guys?! I applied for the 2013-2014 cycle and got 4 interviews: Two in-state here in California, and two out-of-state in New York (Nov. 2013, March 2014; December 2013, April 2014 respectively). At this point, 2 schools are entirely silent and 2 have explicitly waitlisted (Although, at this point, I feel like I'm silently waitlisted everywhere). No acceptances (crying inside).

• I am reapplying this cycle, BUT I need some advice. Does anybody have tips on how to reapply successfully? What to do differently and what to avoid? Are there any seminal posts on this topic?
• Based on my situation outlined here, does anyone have any ideas as to why my application could have been put aside? My assumption is that my late secondaries plus my relative lack of clinical experience put me at a disadvantage. If I submit my secondaries right away this time and talk about the medical scribe position that I am about to start, do you think I'll have a better chance?
• I'll also need help with my school list. Based on my info below, do you guys think you could help me come up with a better list?
• Also, what advice do you have on new LORs? I will add one from my PI and possibly another doctor that I shadowed, but should I absolutely get the ones I submitted last time updated? I don't know how much different those LOR writers will be able to make their letters. What are your thoughts?

This is the post I created last year when I was preparing to apply for the 2013-2014 cycle.

"Here are my specs:

At a glance:

Egyptian-American Male
Neuroscience major at a top California public school
Cumulative GPA: 3.65
Science GPA: 3.67
Junior Year (Last completed year) GPA: 3.85
MCAT: 33 (11/11/11)

Work Experience:

• (1.75 years) University student fundraiser/caller mentor: 9 hours/week cold-calling alumni, parents, students, and friends of the university to raise monetary funds for the school. Huge lesson in communication, persistence, and professionalism.
• (1+ years) University information technology and technical support center: student consultant, this often involves diagnosing, explaining, and resolving problems in computers/mobile devices in the same way that a doctor would in patients. (Reflects my technical background)

Research:
Not exactly that impressive.
1 year at a neurobiology lab independently preparing and analyzing resting fMRI data of sleep study patients for functional connectivity. I have some findings, but no publications yet! I am definitely working on it though; Ill be there ALL summer. 👍

Volunteer:

• (1.5 years) Director of Education for a science educational organization run by undergraduates; Responsible for everything from the coordination and evaluation of every member's presentation, to the creation of entirely new scientific modules in line with California's current high school science standards. I am also managing the creation of an organization textbook for use by members as a reference for the content of their presentations.
• (1 Quarter) Member of a science outreach program developed to stimulate an interest in neuroscience for children and adolescents. Created a detailed lesson plan for a presentation and hands-on practicum for high-school students.
• (5 years) Church volunteer - coach/organizer/Sunday School teacher; youth leader of youth ministry

Clinical:

• Shadowing: A total of 95 hours shadowing various radiologists, nephrologists, and internists, some of whom are directors of their respective departments.
• Hospital volunteer at a large university hospital (not much; 20 hours total)

Application:
My PS has gone through quite a few drafts and it seems pretty strong from what I have heard. It describes a unique aspect of my life that few can claim and ties it up neatly in a metaphor.
My LORs are sort of a question mark. I know I have a strong one from my university's vice-chair of neuroscience. I will also be getting a fairly strong one from the director of a department in the humanities. Another will be from my priest which should be quite strong as well and describes all my responsibilities at my church. Another will be from a science professor whose class I scored and presented very well in.

School list: (this is where I need help!)

I am honestly open to any schools that of course are either in-state or friendly to California OOS-ers. As another bit of helpful criteria, I have family/friends in California, Chicago, Boston, and Florida. I am looking to apply to 30+ schools (?) organized in a fall-back, good fit, reach stratification. The list below is sort of a compilation of suggestions from friends, etc; its not an honest reflection of my own picks from MSAR:

In-State:
Loma Linda
UC Irvine
UC Davis
USC
Stanford (?)
UCLA - David Geffen
UCLA/Charles Drew
UCLA PRIME
UCSF
UCSD
UCR (?; very Riverside-oriented)

Out-of-state:
George Washington
Georgetown
Rosalind Franklin
Northwestern
Rush
UChicago (?)
Albany
Albert Einstein
NYU
Columbia
NY Medical College
SUNY Downstate
SUNY Upstate
Stony Brook
Rochester
Johns Hopkins (?)
Howard
Washington University St. Louis
University of Washington
Baylor
Temple
Michigan
University of Arizona"

I sent my primary for this past cycle 10 days after the application opened for submitting so not too late from what I understand, but I also submitted my secondaries extra super double late and I think that might have been the issue. Although I got secondaries from everyone, I only sent back these secondaries (mostly because of lack of time):

• UC Irvine
• UC Davis
• USC
• Stanford
• UCLA DGSOM + Drew + PRIME
• UCSF
• UCSD
• UCR
• Georgetown
• Northwestern
• UChicago
• Albany
• Albert Einstein
• NYU
• Columbia
• NYMC
  
• SUNY Upstate
• SUNY Downstate
• Stony Brook
• Rochester
• WashU SL
• Baylor

Of course, a few things have changed since I submitted my application last year, but the information above is essentially what I submitted with. Therefore, this is what I want you to look at when you evaluate what I did and what I can do better.

Any advice you have would be helpful! Thanks in advance!

 

[doctorswag]

Sorry if this looks too long and daunting!

TL;DR - This past cycle hasn't gone so well for me. I will be reapplying. Any tips on how to reapply and adjusting my school list would be helpful!

 

[DrMidlife]

What I see here:
1. Interviews & waitlists
2. California
3. Late secondaries
4. OOS publics

What that means:
1. If you got interviews & waitlists, even though you were late, then there's no major problem here.
2. Needing more than one cycle is typical in California regardless of your numbers. Find the stats on aamc.org if you aren't yet aware of how much worse your odds are in CA than in other states.
3. Presumably you understand that getting your apps complete quickly is a fixable thing.
4. Don't apply to public schools outside your home state unless you are in the top 5% of their matriculant pool.

I wrote a massive explanation for reapps, but "seminal" would be going too far: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/drmidlifes-reapplication-dissertation.942893/

Best of luck to you.

 

[DrMidlife]

Also I don't like the priest letter. Thoroughly read the admissions instructions and FAQs at every school to which you apply. You'll get good guidance on what to do and what not to do.

 

[doctorswag]

Thank you DrMidLife!

I just read your post after posting this one and I would easily say that it is a seminal work for all SDN creepers like myself. The post is already very helpful and answers a lot of my questions, so thank you.

A few follow up comments:

• I understand that Californians do have a severe disadvantage, but would you go as far as saying that I can attribute most of my relative lack of success last cycle to the fact that I live in California?
• Of course, Ill apply much earlier on this time, but outside of that, at a quick glance, do you think there are other points I can improve on solely during the application process? Should I have my LOR writers rewrite/update their letters? (Ill scratch the priest's letter except to the schools where I think it'll help.) Is it possible that my interviews were terrible?
• I actually had an interview (a solid one I thought) at one of the NY public schools I applied to. Do you think that was sheer luck or should I apply to this school again? I am still parsing through your post and the others on choosing schools to reapply too, but are there any rules of thumb? I understand that top schools (most selective) are not exactly reapplicant friendly. Is this the case?

Im sorry if you've already answered these questions! You've already been extremely helpful.

Thanks again!

 

[doctorswag]

Does anyone else have any advice on this?

 

[Goro]

First, come up with a more realistic list. Your are not African-American, and so Howard and other HBCs should not be on the list. A 33 MCAT is not very competitive for such a top-tier as UCSF or Stanford, unless you have a Nature paper under your belt.

MSAR Online is your friend. Apply to schoos whose mdian numbers are close to your own.
Work on interview skills.
Show how you've improved since the last app cycle.

Goro suggests
Loma Linda
UC Irvine
UC Davis
USC
UCLA - David Geffen
George Washington
Georgetown
Rosalind Franklin
Rush
Albany
Albert Einstein
NY Medical College
Temple
University of Arizona (maybe)
VCU
EVMS
Wake Forest
NYMC
Albany
MCW
SLU
Tulane
Any DO school (Western and TUCOM-CA are in your backyard
Any new MD school, especially Hofstra

 

[DrMidlife]

Goro, please disclose: you're affiliated with a DO school, correct? Do you have a basis to advise on MD school choice beyond what we can all see in the MSAR?

I object to the advice to apply to OOS publics, to not apply to all instate publics, and to leave out the midwest.

Also, some of these schools get well over 10,000 apps. Going after a good midwestern private school is going to have better odds than going after a meh coastal private.

 

[doctorswag]

Goro and DrMidLife, thank you so much for your help.

I appreciate all your help in coming up with specific list of schools, but both of you seem to know the MSAR and the principles of school choice very well and I certainly dont.

Are there any rules of thumb or general principles I should follow or be mindful of? Such as Avoid ______, Apply to _____ if you ______, Instate publics are ______, but out of state privates are ______, _______ schools like/hate reapplicants. Anything would be helpful!

Thank you.

 

[DrMidlife]

Well, I've included almost the whole formula just in this thread, but understand that a formula is just where you START.

You have to carefully read the admissions requirements and FAQs at EACH SCHOOL by yourself. You'll be expected to answer "why our school?" and the answer can't just be "because you're in the MSAR and your numbers look ok for me."

I'm not going to state "the formula" because there is a massive collection of tribal knowledge all over SDN, and it's pretty much summarized in this thread or in my long FAQ post. You need to do some work to own this.

Best of luck to you.

 

[doctorswag]

Well, I've included almost the whole formula just in this thread, but understand that a formula is just where you START.

You have to carefully read the admissions requirements and FAQs at EACH SCHOOL by yourself. You'll be expected to answer "why our school?" and the answer can't just be "because you're in the MSAR and your numbers look ok for me."

I'm not going to state "the formula" because there is a massive collection of tribal knowledge all over SDN, and it's pretty much summarized in this thread or in my long FAQ post. You need to do some work to own this.

Best of luck to you.

You're absolutely right. Thank you for everything DrMidLife.

You've been extremely helpful.

 

[kthxbai]

One more thing that looks troublesome to me is your unchanged clinical experience. I'd imagine med schools need to see a medically related commitment (just starting the Scribe program doesn't count for this cycle), so this is a red flag to me.

But hey, that's just my two cents.