I have recently graduated with a Business Administration degree with a major in Management Information Systems(MIS). I graduated with a 2.37 GPA. I am starting the Pre-Pharm curriculum from the top. I have been working in The Pharmacy at Wal-Mart for almost 5 years now. My question is: what are my chances of getting into Pharmacy school under these circumstances? Thank you for all those who reply.
Recent Graduate going back to school for Pharmacy...
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We won't have any idea at all about your chances until you actually take some pre-pharmacy classes.
At the outset, the 2.37 GPA will do very, very bad things to your PharmCAS GPA.
I sincerely hope you're more talented in science and math than you are in whatever you studied for MIS, because a 2.37 won't even let you get within 500 feet of a pharmacy school.
Either that, or find out what you were doing wrong in your previous degree plan and rectify it.
A 2.37,to me, says you're a slacker and won't cut it in a rigorous science program, but looks can be deceiving. Can you convince me (And you'll be convincing people all the way...) why you deserve to be in pharmacy school?
Just some thoughts.
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well your gpa seems very low considering your a business major.
To apply to pharm school you will need to take some science courses and see how you do...At this point A/B are going to help you and C's will hold you back.
2nd. If your doing pharmacy for the money. Beware that there is going to be a oversaturation of pharmacist in the future unless there is a huge increase in demand from a universal healthcare type of change. 5 years ago, there were only 80 school and now there are 130 reaching 140 maybe 150 in the next few years. Hence more pharmD's and salaries will go down. And each of these schools are charging very 30-45K /year for school so you'll incure 130-160K in debt. Not to mention the 2-3 years of prereq you have to do before even applying, interviewing, and getting in...
Its a very long process... and starting over is not fun thats what your facing....
To apply to pharm school you will need to take some science courses and see how you do...At this point A/B are going to help you and C's will hold you back.
2nd. If your doing pharmacy for the money. Beware that there is going to be a oversaturation of pharmacist in the future unless there is a huge increase in demand from a universal healthcare type of change. 5 years ago, there were only 80 school and now there are 130 reaching 140 maybe 150 in the next few years. Hence more pharmD's and salaries will go down. And each of these schools are charging very 30-45K /year for school so you'll incure 130-160K in debt. Not to mention the 2-3 years of prereq you have to do before even applying, interviewing, and getting in...
Its a very long process... and starting over is not fun thats what your facing....
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Hey, I'm in the same boat as you. I just graduated in May with a BBA as well and I plan on going back to school in the Fall to work on the pre-pharmacy courses.
My 2 Cents: I think it's a great time to go back to school. But before you jump into this, make sure you REALLYYY sit down and think about this because before you get into pharm school, you have to do 2 whole years of pre-reqs and I know as a business major, we only had to take 2 science classes so we have a LOT more science classes to take!
As for me, I thought long and hard about it. I decided that I wanted to do pharmacy because I really do enjoy working in the pharmacy and I find the field of medicine to be fascinating so the question is Why do YOU want to pursue pharmacy?
My 2 Cents: I think it's a great time to go back to school. But before you jump into this, make sure you REALLYYY sit down and think about this because before you get into pharm school, you have to do 2 whole years of pre-reqs and I know as a business major, we only had to take 2 science classes so we have a LOT more science classes to take!
As for me, I thought long and hard about it. I decided that I wanted to do pharmacy because I really do enjoy working in the pharmacy and I find the field of medicine to be fascinating so the question is Why do YOU want to pursue pharmacy?
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With your GPA, you are going to need mostly all As to even have a chance. If you don't, you might not even make the cut-off for a lot of schools. And you are going to need to score well on the PCAT. I suggest when you take your pre-reqs, you make a serious effort to learn the material well. That means you should park yourself in office hours if there are things that you don't understand and don't even think about last minute cramming. You need to be studying early and often. If you are to have a chance, you need to have a miraculous turn-around and a good story about how you have changed. Maybe you've matured, maybe you have found your true calling, I don't know. But you can't do what you've been doing. Are you prepared to behave differently and follow through?
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I'd take a look at how much you expect to make with your current degree, then factor in time lost for both pre-requisites and pharmacy schooling, associated debt, and your salary after taxes... assuming that money is playing a factor in your decision. You'll also be losing the ability to invest in both the stock market (and whatever gains that would yield) and as a pharmacist, you may be losing the ability to invest in a Roth IRA because of your salary. I occasionally wonder if I'm making the right decision and I'm not staring at 2 years of pre-requisites. Ultimately, as long as I don't fail out of pharmacy school (assuming I get accepted), and it doesn't put excessive strain on my current long-term relationship/possible future marriage, I'm okay with the fact that pharmacy school might not positively impact my life-time earnings. I'm not saying pharmacy is a bad choice, but depending on how old you are, and your projected earnings, the 100K/year salary might not be all its cracked up to be, especially if there is a decrease in that salary in the future. Again, I don't want to be doom-and-gloomy, but I'd just advise people to look beyond the yearly salary and see whether or not going to pharmacy school is going to actually a) increase their happiness in a non-monetary sense or b) improve their long-term financial state.
R
rphfan2009
I had a 3.9 GPA when I finished my MBA...my undergrad was a 3.5 GPA in Economics
R
rphfan2009
Thank you everyone for all of the feedback. To start, I began my college career in Fall 2002. I started off in MIS and since have switched to Pre-Pharm, Computer Engineering, then back to MIS. Those years where I did "slack off" really did bring down my GPA tremendously. When I switched back to MIS, I knew it was time to finish this school thing and graduate. I earned Dean's List the final 2 semesters of my MIS degree. After looking for a job my entire senior year, I have thought long and hard about going back to obtain a spot in the Pharmacy as a pharmacist. My motivations of going back are: job security, learning about diseases(in case of family sicknesses), monetary, earning the right to become my colleagues' boss, and most of all, proving everyone wrong. I have looked at the long term repercussions of what I would earn with my degree and a job I had interviewed for was only earning $12.50/hr after one full year. I could make more where I work right now as a Pharm Tech.
7 yrs/current degree = $175,000 -- 21 yrs = $525,000
7 yrs/PharmD = $700,000
I think that's more than enough motivation right there. I believe that I have matured and finally realized that everything is not given to you, if you hope for it. I am ready to work and study hard to reach my first goal, to get into Pharmacy School. I'll be back after every semester to give an update.
I also had one more question. Some schools don't accept a Pharmacist's recommendation letters, but they accept an employer's. What if my pharmacist is my employer, is that an exception?
7 yrs/current degree = $175,000 -- 21 yrs = $525,000
7 yrs/PharmD = $700,000
I think that's more than enough motivation right there. I believe that I have matured and finally realized that everything is not given to you, if you hope for it. I am ready to work and study hard to reach my first goal, to get into Pharmacy School. I'll be back after every semester to give an update.
I also had one more question. Some schools don't accept a Pharmacist's recommendation letters, but they accept an employer's. What if my pharmacist is my employer, is that an exception?
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If they say...
"We won't accept a letter from a pharmacist" but they DO say "We will accept a letter from an employer", then it doesn't matter if the employer is Bill Gates, Obama or a pharmacist, it's just your employer.
Hope you can stick with it, you've got a deep hole to dig yourself out of. But hey, you can only go up!
R
rphfan2009
I really think that you need to take a long and a VERY hard look at yourself and your reasons for even becoming a pharmacist. I think that your not out for the right reason (aka helping patients, etc)--you are driven by mostly money, not being able to find a job, obtaining a management title and "proving everyone wrong." Yes, you may be able to make more money in the long-run (aka your 7 year plan), but will you be truly happy in the end? Or for the rest of your life? You sound
like you need to do a little bit more soul searching--pharmacy is not just a 4 year professional school commitment--its a life long one--thats not just to yourself, but to other people and their lives/well-being. P.S. Find a better answer to why you want to be a pharmacist--until then, you are really insulting the profession and yourself.
Take everyone's opinion for what they're worth. They're just opinions. Only you can know if you are willing to put in the work and improve your position and become a pharmacist.
Your GPA is a bit lower, but you have a lot of classes you need to take for pre-pharm, and in all honesty, they are pretty darn easy; you just need to put in the effort to do well. As far as your motivation goes, there is no right or wrong things to be motivated, as long as you know your stuff and you do your responsibilities. If earning a lot of money is going to make you a better pharmacist (hypothetically), then by all means go ahead.
My advice to you is that if you know for a fact that pharmacy is what you want to pursue, then do it. Just remember to do well in your pre-req classes and do extremely well on the PCAT. Since there are more school out there now, if you can show that you've turned your studying habits around by showing consistent improvement of your grades, pharmacy schools will look into that and you can also explain yourself in your personal statement, but that's few years down the road.
Best of luck to you.
Your GPA is a bit lower, but you have a lot of classes you need to take for pre-pharm, and in all honesty, they are pretty darn easy; you just need to put in the effort to do well. As far as your motivation goes, there is no right or wrong things to be motivated, as long as you know your stuff and you do your responsibilities. If earning a lot of money is going to make you a better pharmacist (hypothetically), then by all means go ahead.
My advice to you is that if you know for a fact that pharmacy is what you want to pursue, then do it. Just remember to do well in your pre-req classes and do extremely well on the PCAT. Since there are more school out there now, if you can show that you've turned your studying habits around by showing consistent improvement of your grades, pharmacy schools will look into that and you can also explain yourself in your personal statement, but that's few years down the road.
Best of luck to you.
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How many units of straight As would it take to get a full degree worth of credit hours @ 2.37 to a respectable GPA?
I'm thinking probably more than even just the pre-pharmacy courses. Maybe not...
I'm thinking probably more than even just the pre-pharmacy courses. Maybe not...
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Yeah, this might be true, 2.37 x 4 yrs. = ~9.5, 4.0 x 1.5 yrs. (possibly generous) = 6.0. 15.5 / 5.5 = 2.8.
If that 2.37 had some sort of freshman forgiveness (i.e. for a certain number of units, only the re-taken course counts for your GPA), then it gets worse. 1.5 years worth of A's will look good, but if your GPA is a bit lower than a 2.8 either because of re-taken courses (assuming the minimum required GPA for schools is the PHARMCAS GPA), or you don't get a 4.0 for 1.5 years, you might not meet the minimum required GPA.
Also, your calculations assume that you don't get a raise. When you're 50, even the average individual with a liberal arts degree is going to be making 50K. Finally, at your current salary, you're paying half or less than half the taxes you'd be paying as a pharmacist.
I'll admit: ~50k when you're 50 (or after 20 years experience) isn't great, but is that what you're looking at? I don't know, again, I'd advise you to do the math, since your projections suggest you didn't.
Look up the power of a Roth IRA (yes, inflation is an issue, but I've only heard praise from most people.) Look up the costs of loans and their associated interest. Look up how much taxes you're going to be paying (that 100K salary is probably going to be chopped down to 67K, depending on the state you live in.) There may be better ways to make money, if that's what you're interested in. Finally, I could see pharmacist's wages dropping, or competition getting more fierce as time progresses. Maybe not, but I figure it's best to assume a little bit of either, and if that changes your decision, then it's best to error on the side of caution.
I heard some schools only look at classes that you have taken 5 years prior to your application submission. If this is the case, anyone have any suggestions on which schools might I be talking about?
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Yes, you're talking about academic forgiveness. One of the most popular schools for this is USN, university of southern nevada. However, since they "forgive" coursework >5 years old, their ave. entrance GPA is really high, so you basically need to ace all the pre-requisite work to have a shot.
There are a couple more, but USN is the one "everyone" talks about.
I understand that a lot of you think that I am doing this for the "wrong" reasons. But who are you to say that YOUR reason for going into pharmacy is "right"? I see this as an opportunity to further my education and enhance my knowledge on a subject that I have always wanted to learn but was never able to motivate myself enough "do the work" until now.
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Why didn't you look at your business education as a chance to "do work" and as an opportunity to enhance your knowledge on a subject? It seems suspicious, right? Not suspicious in the Sherlock Holmes way, just in the "WTF, mate?" kind of way. You've worked in a pharmacy for five years, ostensibly on or about the time you began working on the BUSTEC degree. If you were so disinterested in this degree, instead of completing it with a trash GPA, why didn't you back out, withdraw on good terms, and start your pharmacy education?
Want my story? I was admitted to the Pacific Graduate School of Psychology at Stanford for their Psychology doctorate track. By happenstance, I took a pharmacology class when finishing my Certified Drug and Alcohol Abuse Counselor (CADAC) program and absolutely fell in love with it. I started to learn more immediately, and sensing a new love (hence my name, an undiscovered, but latent, passion for science) I swiftly withdrew my seat in PGSP, backed out of the remainder of my CADAC for now, and got hot and heavy on the 2 semesters of pre-requisites I needed that my previous UG did not cover.
That is motivation and that is ambition. Knowing you love pharmacy and then continuing a track you hate doesn't mesh. That's like knowing you love another woman, but staying with your girlfriend/wife/whatever, just because it's easier. THat speaks volumes about the kind of person you are, and that's why we "all" question your motives. To us, it seems like you're just another "ME TOO!!!" Six-figure salary type. You may or may not be, but by golly your actions speak louder than your words, and completing a degree with a barely-passing GPA is a big action.
So...
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Its been a longtime. I am peacefully enjoying the east coast of America. I love NC. Sorry guys, I know this post is not related. I have been absent for a while.
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Well, since you wanted an answer to your original question.
With such a low undergrad GPA you are not a competitive applicant. Given the fact that you have an entire undergrad degree under your belt and a vast abundance of classes, two years of pre-reqs will most likely not bring up your GPA even high enough so that you even qualify to apply to most schools. Academic forgiveness is your best shot at entering the profession.
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I just wanted to say that I freaking love the way you write, Passion. I actually laughed out loud at the "hot and heavy" part.
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Glad I have some fans out there !
Glad to see that you find all of this somewhat humorous. The so-called "trash/barely-passing" GPA was enough to get me a degree. By the way, how many do you have? Also, the low GPA was not due to the classes in the MIS degree, but in other majors I had transferred over to. I finished my MIS degree with 3 straight semesters on the Dean's List. And who said anything about hating my degree? I enjoyed the time I had learning everything I know in the curriculum. I finished the degree because it was only one more year. It's sad to see that I come here to find support and all I got were bashings from bitter posters who think I am doing this for "all the wrong reasons." I guess you think I'm out for YOUR six-figure salary, Passion4Sci and rphfan2009. But you know, it just adds more fuel to the fire and I will continue to pursue my dream no matter who tells me it's a bad idea or I can't do it. Thank you all for the love and support...
Thats the spirit! Maybe you can do some research about pharmacy schools min GPA requirement first and then go to a counselor in a college and ask him/her to calculate how many units of As you have to get in order to pull your GPA up to the minimum GPA requirement. If it takes 3 years of classes to do that, then evaluate your time and consider the risk/benefit of doing so. You don't want to waste your 3 years and not be able to pull your GPA up to a certain threshold. Also keep in mind that meeting the min GPA is only the first step, in your 3 years, you also need to accumulate a lot of extracurricular activities, leadership experience, voluteer experience etc... Your essays also need to be perfect btw and if you can make it to the interview, be prepared to explain how you turn your life around and make a good impression on the admission staff. GL
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No, I don't think you're out for my salary, I'm just flummoxed at the thought of someone with a barely-C average getting a doctorate of any kind.
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I just don't understand why everyone thinks I am trying to make a mockery out of myself and the pharmacy profession! I realized what I have done in the past wasn't all too appealing for some and I am now more ready than ever to pursue this dream of mine. So what if I have a crappy sub-par GPA? Are you threatened that your seat will be occupied by me in the future? I hope someone with a subpar crappy GPA to take your place in pharmacy? What if it is you that is not ready for the workload and will not make the cut? Maybe its the fact that I have a degree and would have a leg up on you? Who knows what you're threatened by? But all I know is that once I get in, the challenge isn't going to stop there. The challenge of being a pharmacist is apparent everyday. I witness it first hand at my workplace and watching loved ones through the process also. So if anyone else thinks that I am flummoxed about this decision is completely incorrect. And who uses a word like that without even knowing the person? Someone with a HIGH GPA apparently.
Passion4Sci: you spend way too much time in this forum and need to find another hobby.
rxlea: I am currently taking:
Gen Chem I
Intro to Physics I
Fund of Biol I
Fund of Biol I Lab
Pre-Calc Alg and Trig Fundamentals
Organizational CMCN
I did the "math" and it would take 5 semesters of As prereqs to push me over the 3.0 GPA mark.
Passion4Sci: you spend way too much time in this forum and need to find another hobby.
rxlea: I am currently taking:
Gen Chem I
Intro to Physics I
Fund of Biol I
Fund of Biol I Lab
Pre-Calc Alg and Trig Fundamentals
Organizational CMCN
I did the "math" and it would take 5 semesters of As prereqs to push me over the 3.0 GPA mark.
You need to take the science classes and show that you can hadle it. Pharmacy schools usually require a minimum of a 2.5 GPA, and most competitive students are in the 3.3-3.5 range if not higher. If you really want to do it, I say go for it. I think you could have a really good personal statement focusing on why you want to become a pharmacist based on your pharmacy tech experience. I am unsure where you are located, however, you might want to target newer pharmacy schools so you might need to relocate.
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You have a very rough and hectic schedule. Are you sure you can manage all these classes at once and get all A's? 😕
It looks rough but it's easy going so far, to say the least. I'm way ahead of many of my classmates and I am also helping out my little brother along the way. I have cut down my job hours to about 10-15 hours per week and I have plenty of time for studying and homework to complete in one day with big breaks in between classes.
wes011: I am located in Louisiana. It looks like Xavier has a 5-year academic forgiveness program and UL-Monroe would be the tougher one to get into because of its 3.0 min GPA requirement and 3-year Pre-Pharm curriculum. But relocation is definitely not out of the question, if I were to get accepted out of state.
Also look at University of Southern Nevada (USN). They have a total grade forgiveness option. However, you need to do REALLY well. The average GPA for both overall and prereqs is around 3.7-3.8. However, they will give you a fresh start.
They are a private school outside of Las Vegas. So now really focus on getting nearly all A's and blowing these classes out of the park. I think you can still get in here.
They are a private school outside of Las Vegas. So now really focus on getting nearly all A's and blowing these classes out of the park. I think you can still get in here.
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OK. Well only you can tell if it's something you can manage. Make sure you use your time wisely though.
